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 Topic: US expands covert military operations says news

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  • US expands covert military operations says news
     OP - May 26, 2010, 12:59 PM
    US expands covert military operations    says news
    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/21-us-expands-covert-military-operations-sk-03
    Quote
    WASHINGTON: The US military has ordered an expansion of covert military operations in the Middle East and east Africa to disrupt Al-Qaeda and other militant networks, officials said Tuesday.

    General David Petraeus, head of Central Command, issued the order in September to bolster intelligence gathering against Islamist extremists and lay the ground for possible attacks by US forces, officials said.

    The order was first reported by the New York Times and defense and military officials told AFP the account was accurate.

    The move was designed to “penetrate, disrupt, defeat or destroy” Al-Qaeda and other groups in Iran, Saudi Arabia and Somalia, the order states, according to the Times. The operations were supposed to “prepare the environment” for potential US attacks in the future, but a specific country is not singled out in the document for a possible strike.

    The order also allows for reconnaissance before possible military action in Iran, amid mounting tensions over Tehran’s nuclear program. Pentagon officials sought to play down the significance of the order, saying it did not represent a dramatic break with past practice.

    While the directive echoes moves by the administration of former president George W. Bush to expand military operations beyond war zones, it is designed to outline a more long-term, structured approach, officials said.

    Escalating US covert action could cause diplomatic tensions with countries in the Middle East, including US allies, while raising questions about the growing role of the US military in intelligence work.

    American spy agencies in the past have bristled at the military possibly encroaching on their turf, but the Central Intelligence Agency said Tuesday there was no rift with the armed forces.

    “The CIA and the US military have a strong relationship and work closely together on a wide range of matters. There’s more than enough work to go around,” CIA spokesman George Little, who would not confirm or deny General Petraeus’ order.
    “The real key is coordination. That typically works well, and if problems arise, they get settled.”

    The military’s covert plans also coincide with recent allegations that a military contractor tried to set up a private spy ring in Afghanistan, raising concerns at the CIA.

    The order from Central Command is focused on gathering intelligence in the target countries “by American troops, foreign businesspeople, academics or others” to pinpoint threats, identify militants and forge “persistent situational awareness,” said the document, quoted by the Times.

    The approved expansion in operations against militants comes as the US military has stepped up training and assistance to Yemen’s security forces battling a branch of the Al-Qaeda network.

    The military directive, or the Joint Unconventional Warfare Task Force Execute Order, requires less oversight compared to covert operations undertaken by the CIA, which must seek White House approval and report regularly to Congress.

    However, more important operations still would have to be cleared through the White House's National Security Council. – AFP

    That sounds Bush Policy to me.,  may be it is bit more hidden and covert military operations ..

    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #1 - May 26, 2010, 01:01 PM
    Seymour Hersh was right, then.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #2 - May 26, 2010, 01:03 PM
    Quote
    Seymour Hersh was right, then.

    Racist....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #3 - May 27, 2010, 06:38 PM
    no... i still have no idea what you meant (joke or not)...
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #4 - May 27, 2010, 07:01 PM
    That sounds Bush Policy to me.,  may be it is bit more hidden and covert military operations ..


    Well it maybe a Bush policy. Unfortunately it is necessary for the U.S. to expand there presence in the Middle East in order to fight Al-Qaida.
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #5 - May 27, 2010, 08:05 PM
    let's see if they do even better... doubt there's anything that can really be called AQ anymore... not that that's the agenda...

    more like: try and consolidate control vis-a-vis Taliban and make an agreement to partition the country; prepare the fracturing of Iraq; and, in turn, control the influence of Tehran regionally - destabilization, countering their proxies (all kinds of ways, probably including backing even more reactionary types), keeping Balochistan away from them, but also beginning the process of splitting it off from Pakistan.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #6 - May 27, 2010, 08:25 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on May 26, 2010, 12:59 PM
    That sounds Bush Policy to me.,  may be it is bit more hidden and covert military operations ..

    yeezevee


    No, Bush policy was naked aggression. Previous administrations' policies involved covert and clandestine operations, proxy wars, "gunboats and gurkhas" (in modern terms, cruise missiles, marines/SpecOps and proxy forces-- i.e. limited military intervention as opposed to full-scale) imperialist foreign policy.

    Quote from: QueenIsabel on May 27, 2010, 07:01 PM
    Well it maybe a Bush policy. Unfortunately it is necessary for the U.S. to expand there presence in the Middle East in order to fight Al-Qaida.


    Wrong. The US government could stop our interventionist policies, withdraw to within our own borders, quit meddling overseas, and fight defensively. Eventually Al-Qaeda and its ilk would implode or else direct their attention away from the US.

    Foreign conflicts and political affiars not our business until someone makes it our business, and this was never what the US was intended to be about when it was founded.
    fuck you
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #7 - May 27, 2010, 08:46 PM
    Quote from: QueenIsabel on May 27, 2010, 07:01 PM
    Unfortunately it is necessary for the U.S. to expand there presence in the Middle East in order to fight Al-Qaida.


    Agree and I think this is a good move, as the issues in Yemen have highlighted.
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

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  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #8 - May 27, 2010, 09:15 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on May 27, 2010, 08:25 PM
    No, Bush policy was naked aggression. Previous administrations' policies involved covert and clandestine operations, proxy wars, "gunboats and gurkhas" (in modern terms, cruise missiles, marines/SpecOps and proxy forces-- i.e. limited military intervention as opposed to full-scale) imperialist foreign policy.

    Wrong. The US government could stop our interventionist policies, withdraw to within our own borders, quit meddling overseas, and fight defensively. Eventually Al-Qaeda and its ilk would implode or else direct their attention away from the US.

    Foreign conflicts and political affiars not our business until someone makes it our business, and this was never what the US was intended to be about when it was founded.


    Even if we withdraw, that would not stop Al-qaida from trying the attack the U.S.

    Besides the U.S. cannot standby and wait for another attacking. We have launch defensive attacks overseas to take down al-qaida someday.
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #9 - May 27, 2010, 09:40 PM
    Quote from: QueenIsabel on May 27, 2010, 09:15 PM
    Even if we withdraw, that would not stop Al-qaida from trying the attack the U.S.


    Really? What would attacking the US accomplish in terms of their goals if we returned to the kind of foreign policy we had in the early 19th and late 18th century and stayed within our own borders, quit meddling in the political and economic affairs of other countries, and quit funding foreign regimes?

    What purpose could bombing the US possibly serve for Al-Qaeda in such a scenario?

    Quote
    Besides the U.S. cannot standby and wait for another attacking. We have launch defensive attacks overseas to take down al-qaida someday.


    We are not simply fighting the nebulous group called Al-Qaeda. We are fighting an Islamist ideology that is not limited to national or organizational boundaries. You can't expect to win such an irregular and asymmetric form of warfare through conventional military means, even conventional counter-insurgency methods. If this is what we are fighting, then we'll be there for fucking decades, if not centuries, as our military presence only feeds the ideology we are fighting.

    Now maybe you want our country engaged in an endless war with unachievable goals, but I certainly don't. There is only one permanent solution to the problem of Islamic terrorism in the West-- swallow our pride, quit being the world's policeman, quit swinging our imperialist dick around and treating people in other countries as means to the ends of our national interest, and return to a non-interventionist foreign policy.

    The rest of the world needs to sort out it's own problems, and anybody who understands the history of Western intervention in the Muslim world realizes it has done little but fuck things up even worse, prevent progress and reform, and create more enemies. I mean, seriously, Western intervention has been fucking things up in that part of the world since at least 1917-- what the hell makes you think it's gonna be different this time? If anything, it's getting worse.
    fuck you
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #10 - May 28, 2010, 02:17 AM
    Quote
    Really? What would attacking the US accomplish in terms of their goals if we returned to the kind of foreign policy we had in the early 19th and late 18th century and stayed within our own borders, quit meddling in the political and economic affairs of other countries, and quit funding foreign regimes?


    It doesn't matter if the U.S. was in the Middle East or not, al-qaida would still have an agenda to promote terrorism and the spread of Islam. Osama bin Laden's ideology was influenced by the 1979 seizure of the Grand Mosque in Mecca

    Quote
    What purpose could bombing the US possibly serve for Al-Qaeda in such a scenario?


    1. The U.S. is viewed as the Great Satan in the eyes of radical Islamists

    2.The U.S. is a modern day Byzantine empire and taking down the U.S. would show how powerful al-qaida is.


    Quote
    Now maybe you want our country engaged in an endless war with unachievable goals, but I certainly don't. There is only one permanent solution to the problem of Islamic terrorism in the West-- swallow our pride, quit being the world's policeman, quit swinging our imperialist dick around and treating people in other countries as means to the ends of our national interest, and return to a non-interventionist foreign policy.


    The problem with this is if the U.S. withdraws the troops, the terrorist will see this as a sign of weakness and celebrate as a victory for their side.

    Besides we already tried using a non-interventionist foreign policy before until the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

    Quote
    The rest of the world needs to sort out it's own problems, and anybody who understands the history of Western intervention in the Muslim world realizes it has done little but fuck things up even worse, prevent progress and reform, and create more enemies. I mean, seriously, Western intervention has been fucking things up in that part of the world since at least 1917-- what the hell makes you think it's gonna be different this time? If anything, it's getting worse.


    Yes the world needs to sort out it's own problems.

    It's not the U.S. military or western intervention that is preventing progress and reform, it is Islam that is preventing progress and reform in the Middle East.
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #11 - May 28, 2010, 02:24 AM
    Never mind. I don't have any interest in debating foreign policy with someone who obviously does not analyze foreign policy from a realistic, interest-based perspective and who has no understanding of history.

    Nor do I have any interest in debating with someone who defends imperialist foreign policy with lame-ass excuses about national security and showing weakness-- which are excuses that have been used by national leaders for several centuries, and they are just as much bullshit now as they were then (but people keep gobbling it up).

    Quote
    Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

    Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

    Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

    fuck you
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #12 - May 28, 2010, 02:59 AM
    Quote
    Nor do I have any interest in debating with someone who defends imperialist foreign policy with lame-ass excuses about national security and showing weakness-- which are excuses that have been used by national leaders for several centuries, and they are just as much bullshit now as they were then (but people keep gobbling it up).


    I am not talking about imperialism or the spread of the U.S. military around the world and I am not defending any sort of imperialism. I am talking about fighting terrorism. I want to see bin Laden hunted down and brought to justice.

    Besides my statements about showing weaknesses are not based on what politicians say ( I never even heard a politician or someone in the government make that statement ), my statements are based on what scholars of Islam state.

    Quote
    Never mind. I don't have any interest in debating foreign policy with someone who obviously does not analyze foreign policy from a realistic, interest-based perspective and who has no understanding of history.


    I guess you are an expert on foreign policy and history?
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #13 - May 28, 2010, 03:18 AM
    Quote from: QueenIsabel on May 28, 2010, 02:59 AM
    I am not talking about imperialism or the spread of the U.S. military around the world and I am not defending any sort of imperialism. I am talking about fighting terrorism.


    Right, that's what defenders of imperialist foreign policy usually say. And not just in the US either.

    Quote
    I want to see bin Laden hunted down and brought to justice.

     

    So do I, but I'm not interested in being at war for decades and destabilizing states and entire regions to do so, while losing liberties at home.

    Quote
    Besides my statements about showing weaknesses are not based on what politicians say ( I never even heard a politician or someone in the government make that statement ), my statements are based on what scholars of Islam state.


    Fuck what the scholars of Islam say, the ignorant fucks. They don't run anything with the military capability to kill any more of our citizens than we manage to kill ourselves every year. And they don't and will never have the ability to take away our freedom. Only we have that ability. And thanks to people like you, we keep losing our liberty because too damn many people are frightened and willing to trade liberty for security.

    Quote
    I guess you are an expert on foreign policy and history?


    As far as laymen go, I'm pretty good, and I can certainly recognize when someone lacks a clear analysis and knowledge of these things. Granted, I'm making some snap judgments about you based on only a few posts, and you may yet prove my assumptions about you wrong, but I'm usually right about this stuff, and so far you haven't brought anything to the table that makes me think you understand the "big picture", interest-based analysis of global events or the historical context involved. I would be very happy if you proved me wrong on any of this or were at least willing to open your mind to these things and really work hard to examine the issues.

    Anyhow, this is a kind of close-knit forum and we all like to know who we're talking to and where they're coming from, so if you could post an Intro thread I know I would appreciate it and so would many others. Also helps so we don't talk past each other. Welcome to the forum, by the way.
    fuck you
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #14 - May 28, 2010, 03:27 AM
    Quote
    Right, that's what defenders of imperialist foreign policy usually say. And not just in the US either.


    I am not an imperialist. I don't even support the Iraq war.

    Quote
    So do I, but I'm not interested in being at war for decades and


    Dude nobody is interested in fighting a war for decades. But right now there is no option then to fight the terrorists until Islam is eradicated.


    Quote
    And thanks to people like you, we keep losing our liberty because too damn many people are frightened and willing to trade liberty for security.


    How I am infringing upon people's freedom?




  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #15 - May 28, 2010, 03:39 AM
    Quote from: QueenIsabel on May 28, 2010, 03:27 AM
    I am not an imperialist. I don't even support the Iraq war.


    You support military and political intervention in the affairs of sovereign states for the purpose of advancing the national interests of the country doing the intervening-- that is imperialism. Your lack of support for a particular war is irrelevant.

    Quote
    Dude nobody is interested in fighting a war for decades.


    Nobody? You quite sure about that? There hasn't been a time since WWII that the US hasn't been involved in some kind of military conflict somewhere in the world, either overtly, covertly or clandestinely. Someone benefits from this, and most of those someones are in our country's own political and economic establishment (i.e. the ruling class).

    Quote
    But right now there is no option then to fight the terrorists


    Who said we shouldn't fight the terrorists? I'm just saying that foreign intervention is unwarranted. We certainly have a right to armed self-defense, both as a group and as individuals.

    Quote
    until Islam is eradicated.


    And how do you propose "eradicating" a religion practiced by over 1.5 billion people all over the world?

    Quote
    How I am infringing upon people's freedom?


    Good question. I actually should not have made that assumption as regards domestic policy issues, as I have yet to flesh out your position on this stuff. However, it seems you do support infringing on the rights of national groups to manage their own affairs as a sovereign people without the constant military, political and economic interference by foreign powers to advance their own national interests.

    Please make an intro thread. People here dig that kind of shit. Pretty please.
    fuck you
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #16 - May 28, 2010, 06:56 AM
    Quote from: QueenIsabel on May 28, 2010, 03:27 AM
    no option then to fight the terrorists until Islam is eradicated.


    Did you mean to say that?

  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #17 - May 28, 2010, 07:29 AM
    As the track record of the last 9 years has shown: America has been consistently shit at fighting terrorists. Anything they have done or do, they tend to fuck up either because of a policy making blunder, oversimplification of complex geopolitics, to putting the wrong people in charge of things with a shit track record of their own.

    Thank you America for making us feel more unsafe than 9 years ago. I should know, I fucking live in Pakistan!
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #18 - May 28, 2010, 03:23 PM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on May 28, 2010, 07:29 AM
    As the track record of the last 9 years has shown: America has been consistently shit at fighting terrorists. Anything they have done or do, they tend to fuck up either because of a policy making blunder, oversimplification of complex geopolitics, to putting the wrong people in charge of things with a shit track record of their own.

    Thank you America for making us feel more unsafe than 9 years ago. I should know, I fucking live in Pakistan!


    Or maybe they weren't really 'fighting terrorism' in the first place.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #19 - May 28, 2010, 03:26 PM
    Quote from: panoptic on May 28, 2010, 03:23 PM
    Or maybe they weren't really 'fighting terrorism' in the first place.

    It certainly gives them the best excuse to act like an irresponsible, clumsy, jumpy bully for the last 65 years and counting.  whistling2
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #20 - May 28, 2010, 03:30 PM
    Yeah.

    But they won't win, anyway; the people of that region will.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #21 - May 28, 2010, 08:48 PM
    Quote
    Q-Man

    And how do you propose "eradicating" a religion practiced by over 1.5 billion people all over the world?


    Educating Muslims about the teachings of Islam, encouraging apostasy,  and treating Muslim organizations as political organizations so they can be monitored, are a few examples.

  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #22 - May 28, 2010, 08:50 PM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on May 28, 2010, 07:29 AM
    As the track record of the last 9 years has shown: America has been consistently shit at fighting terrorists. Anything they have done or do, they tend to fuck up either because of a policy making blunder, oversimplification of complex geopolitics, to putting the wrong people in charge of things with a shit track record of their own.

    Thank you America for making us feel more unsafe than 9 years ago. I should know, I fucking live in Pakistan!


    Agree
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #23 - May 28, 2010, 09:48 PM
    Quote from: QueenIsabel on May 28, 2010, 08:48 PM
    Educating Muslims about the teachings of Islam, encouraging apostasy,  and treating Muslim organizations as political organizations so they can be monitored, are a few examples.


    None of that will "eradicate" Islam, not even in several generations. If that were the case, the entire West would be atheist by now.

    As to the last bit-- remember how I assumed you favored authoritarian domestic policy that trampled on rights and reduced our liberties, but I didn't have any evidence, so I retracted my statement? Well, I now have the evidence, so the previous statement stands. Having the state spy on Muslim organizations that have not given probable cause for investigation apart from them being Muslim is clearly an authoritarian policy.

    Told you I was good at making snap judgments about people.  Wink
    fuck you
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #24 - May 28, 2010, 10:14 PM
    Quote from: QueenIsabel on May 28, 2010, 08:48 PM
    Educating Muslims about the teachings of Islam

    imo that could prove to be even more dangerous
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  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #25 - May 29, 2010, 08:16 AM
    man, we suck at being covert
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: US expands covert military operations says news
     Reply #26 - May 29, 2010, 08:55 AM
     Cheesy Just a bit. I think everyone has noticed now.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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