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Theme Changer

 Topic: The curious case of Miriam and her brother

 (Read 38540 times)
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  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #30 - May 29, 2010, 03:45 AM

    @ Marie

    Quote
    If you are trying to say it is just a coincidence the name of Mary's father is Imran well you are mistaken. Imran is not the name of Mary's father.


    Now, now.. your precious New Testament, curiously enough, does NOT mention the names of Jesus' grandparents! He is supposedly the most important man who walked the Earth, and not a single mention of the names of his grandparents (this is especially interesting given that the Bible never tires of boring us with long geneologies).

    Unless you're going to refer to some non-canonical gospels you hypocritical evangelist! When it suits you non-canonical gospels is yuck... but if the need arises to refer to them to make a point, you won't hesistate a second!

    In any case, canonical or not, the Quranic stories are heavily edited (if you will) versions of the canonized Bible and heretical gospels... we both have different points of reference: mine it's the Quran, yours it's your precious Bible (and the heretical non-canical gospels if need be  piggy).

    Quote
    debunker you need to make a better argument in order to convince me the Quran did not make a mistake.


    I don't need to convince you of anything... I challenge you to refute any argument I made so far... try, if you dare, to refute my long post in the previous page!

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #31 - May 29, 2010, 03:47 AM

    Debunker and QueenIsabel/Marie, I feel a "love connection" developing...well...that or a "forbidden lust connection" developing. Come on guys, let's have you guys get down with some hot skeptical Muslim on fundamentalist Christian action. I don't blame you guys if you deny it-- after all, the secrecy helps make it so hot.


     Cheesy I'm not skeptical... only non-orthodox Smiley and our friend Marie is so uptight about sex, anyway (just a random guess).

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #32 - May 29, 2010, 03:48 AM

    Debunker and QueenIsabel/Marie, I feel a "love connection" developing...well...that or a "forbidden lust connection" developing. Come on guys, let's have you guys get down with some hot skeptical Muslim on fundamentalist Christian action. I don't blame you guys if you deny it-- after all, the secrecy helps make it so hot.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfi8fT9oHkQ&feature=related
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #33 - May 29, 2010, 03:51 AM

    @ Marie


    Debunker shoots a sly smile at Marie
    Quote
    Now, now.. your precious New Testament, curiously enough, does NOT mention the names of Jesus' grandparents!


    Moves in closely

    Quote
    He is supposedly the most important man who walked the Earth, and not a single mention of the names of his grandparents (this is especially interesting given that the Bible never tires of boring us with long geneologies).


    Talks in her ear, places his hand on hers.

    Quote
    Unless you're going to refer to some non-canonical gospels you hypocritical evangelist! When it suits you non-canonical gospels is yuck... but if the need arises to refer to them to make a point, you won't hesistate a second!


    Drops his drawers.

    Quote
    In any case, canonical or not, the Quranic stories are heavily edited (if you will) versions of the canonized Bible and heretical gospels... we both have different points of reference: mine it's the Quran, yours it's your precious Bible (and the heretical non-canical gospels if need be  piggy).


    Whips out his cock.

    Quote
    I don't need to convince you of anything... I challenge you to refute any argument I made so far... try, if you dare, to refute my long post in the previous page!


    Says "Yeah, baby, you see this? Get some Muslim lovin, baby! FUCK YEAH!!!"

    fuck you
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #34 - May 29, 2010, 03:57 AM

    @ Marie

    Quote
    But some Muslim scientists have stated the world is flat according to the Quran.


    so what? I truly think that Muhammed himself thought the world is flat. God wouldn't have burdened him with a knowledge he couldn't grasp... when I read in the Quran that the earth/ground was made flat for people I read: "It's one of God's blessings the earth wasn't all hilly! Just imagine what a chore walking/traveling to any place that would have been!"

    Quote
    This is coming from someone who believes the Bible is corrupt.


    Of course it is! anyway, how does that refute my argument? Oh wait.. I remember you once admitted at FFI you're a bit slow.... forgive me, my bad... next time I'll write things   s. l. o. w. l. y   f. o. r   y. o. u.

    Quote
    If Jesus stated the world was flat then I would seriously consider leaving Christianity.


    He didn't state it... he said Satan took him to the highest mountain so that he could see all the kingdoms of the earth! what a retard this Biblcal Jesus was... didn't he know that even atop the highest mountain, you can't see the entire earth, because it's round? and that coming from non other than the Son of Yahweh Himself! Didn't His Daddy send him to some heavenly school or something?  And what's this crap about Satan seducing the Son of Yahweh? It's like when an outcast comes to the Crown Prince and offers him his own kingdom! Effing retard this Biblical Jesus was!

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #35 - May 29, 2010, 04:03 AM

    Stop it debunker, this is just too fuckin hot.

    fuck you
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #36 - May 29, 2010, 04:05 AM

    @ Q-Man

    I love how you're sarcastically dismissing every one's post in this thread...  starting with that weird video of Benjamin's butt Cheesy

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #37 - May 29, 2010, 04:07 AM

    Interestingly I started a thread on the exact same topic recently at FFI, it's worth a read through (don't go nuts with me if you don't like FFI just ignore this post!)

    http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6725
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #38 - May 29, 2010, 04:08 AM

    I ain't sarcastically dismissing shit. I honestly think you and Marie should have angry, forbidden Muslim on Christian sex. You know you both want it.

    fuck you
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #39 - May 29, 2010, 04:20 AM

    Interestingly I started a thread on the exact same topic recently at FFI, it's worth a read through (don't go nuts with me if you don't like FFI just ignore this post!)

    http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6725


    hello Winston, yeah I saw it.. anyway, here's my answer:
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=10503.msg275128#msg275128

    you can refute it if you want and you can even bring the entire Christian brigade from FFI with you if you like.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #40 - May 29, 2010, 04:23 AM

    Yeah I'll have a look later. I didn't know too many details of the issue but I thought that youtube video was interesting and wanted to see if there was more to be said in defence of it. Have to go now though  Cry
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #41 - May 29, 2010, 04:28 AM

    I ain't sarcastically dismissing shit. I honestly think you and Marie should have angry, forbidden Muslim on Christian sex. You know you both want it.


    Me and Marie might both need a little sex in our sad lonely lives, but I'm not sure in real life either of us would be interested in the other.

    PS. On second thoughts, I guess you're some sort of a Psychic, Q-man... i did once PM Marie (on FFI) a link to a page that contained my photos (we were discussing the issue of girlfriends)... perhaps, I was subconsciencely hitting on her?  Smiley Anyway, that would be evidence I was interested in her... but she clearly wasn't interested in me, because she never responded after I shown her my pictures  Cry

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #42 - May 29, 2010, 04:31 AM

    Yeah I'll have a look later. I didn't know too many details of the issue but I thought that youtube video was interesting and wanted to see if there was more to be said in defence of it. Have to go now though  Cry


    it was just another video of desperate lying evangelists... anyway, like I said, armed with your knowledge from that video and the "scholarly" contribution of the Christian brigade at FFI, please try to refute my arguments.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #43 - May 29, 2010, 07:39 AM

    Hello Winston,

    This is my refutation of that stupid evangelical video:



    1- Mary vs. MARIYAM/Miriam

    In the ARABIC bible there's only one name for Jesus' mother and Moses' sister: MARYAM.

    And this wikipedia link confirms what I just said:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_(mother_of_Jesus)

    Now, the lying video you posted didn't care to make this fact absolutely clear.



    2- Imran vs. Amram

    a- In the ARABIC Bible, AmraM, Moses' father, was NOT written as 'ImraN... it was written as 'AmraM. So 'ImraN is unlikely to be the Arabic rendering of AmraM, but even if it were, then there's still no problem as it's not impossible for a Jew, hundreds of years later, to be named 'ImraN and his wife chooses to name their daughter MARYAM (which is no problem as per point#1 above).

    b- Now, evangelists can't use their Bible to discount this possibility, since the name of Jesus' grandfather was not mentioned in the Bible, yet they might be shameful enough to use the heretical gospels, they despise so much, to discount this possibility... even though, regardless of what ancient sources they use, it doesn't matter, anyway, as the Quran, the Bible, heretical gospels are all dubious sources of information to any *neutral* reader. The Quran could have got the name of Jesus' grandfather right or the heretical gospels could have got that name right or both were wrong. So, an atheist cannot say the Quran/heretical gospels is wrong/right regarding the name of Jesus' grandfather, and an "honest" Christian cannot prove the Quran was wrong/right regarding that name (they can't use heretical gospels.. besides, 'ImraN is NOWHERE to be found in the ARABIC Bible, anyway!)

       

    3- The Hadith reference:

    a- Like I said in a previous post, BY DEFAULT, the verse means Mary had a biologcal brother. If I were an Arab Christian at that time and a Muslim guy came to me trying to sell me his religion, I'd immediately stop at that verse and use its default meaning.

    b- the Muslim guy who was sent to Najran was only a messenger... he possibly could have guessed the answer, but being a mere messenger he had no right to answer that question... he asked the prophet and he was sent back with the answer.



    4- The Ibn Kathir reference:

    a- First of all, Ibn Kathir used numerous many sources to write his book, including Christian/Jewish sources (all sorts of sources) and even Greek pseudo-science. Ibn Kathir is the same guy who said cows worshipped baby Jesus and unwittingly equated Jesus with God. Now, when it comes to this specific account regarding Aicha's confusion, he cited, not a Hadith, he cited a non-verifiable source (non-verifiable according to the (faulty) standards of collecting Hadiths... his book is so full of such stories).

    b- that stupid video asks the question how could prominent Muslims (like Aicha) be confused about MARIYAM, Jesus' mother as being the sister of Moses... well, even if this account of Aicha's confusion were true, it proves nothing except that she never actually read the Quran.. because if she did, she would have easily noticed there were plenty of generations (and prophets) between Moses and Jesus (according to Quran)... see my long post in the previous page.

    c- the lying video hides the fact that Ibn Kathir actually commented that this account (of Aicha's confusion) was highly unlikely (weak)... so Ibn Kathir himself, while reporting the story, was dismissing it as crap.



    5- FINALLY, like I explained so many times already, the author of the Quran CLEARLY knew there were many generations between Moses and Jesus... and clearly identified Jesus' mother as an ORPHAN. Moreover, the author of the Quran, while mentioining the story of baby Moses and his "sister", He never mentioned her name.. in fact, the only woman in the Quran who was mentioned by name was MARYAM, mother of Jesus... almost all references to her, used her name... so if the author thought MARIYAM, Jesus' mother, was also Moses' sister, it only makes sense He would mention her name in the baby Moses story. Also, it makes absolutely no sense for the author of the Quran to use the reference: MARYAM sister of Aaron, if He thought she was the sister of Moses, since Moses had a far much higher rank than Aaron in the Quran.... you know what?Just read the whole post in the previous page.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #44 - May 29, 2010, 09:47 AM

    But some Muslim scientists have stated the world is flat according to the Quran.


    Hehe, yeah.

    Tafsir al-Jalalayn

    79:30
    and after that He spread out the earth: He made it flat, for it had been created before the heaven, but without having been spread out;

    71:19
    And God has made the earth a flat [open] expanse for you

    91:6
    and [by] the earth and the One Who spread it, laid out flat.

    88:20
    And the earth, how it was laid out flat?, and thus infer from this the power of God, exalted be He, and His Oneness? The commencing with the [mention of] camels is because they are closer in contact with it [the earth] than any other [animal]. As for His words sutihat, ‘laid out flat’, this on a literal reading suggests that the earth is flat, which is the opinion of most of the scholars of the [revealed] Law, and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-hay’a) have it, even if this [latter] does not contradict any of the pillars of the Law.
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #45 - May 29, 2010, 10:00 AM

    Yeah Muhammed got Mary and Miriam mixed up with each other, along making other inaccuracies about Christianity and historical inaccuracies. He was either too drunk to know what he was saying or he forgot what he said.


    I'm curious why you said Muhammad was too drunk to know what he was saying?

    Was that a serious comment or just an off the cuff meaningless snipe at Muhammad?

    You know it always amazes me when I see orthodox/literalists Christians bashing Islam with such glee and nasty jibes - "Islam Sucks" blah blah blah...

    It's like the blind accusing the blind of being blind! lol

    Well you're right Queen Isabel - the Qur'an is man-made nonesense and does not stand up to reason.

    But while you are laughing at that, remember also your own beliefs do not stand up to reason - as you yourself admitted!

    Your "holy" book is just as much man-made nonsense as the Qur'an is.

    In fact - as an Ex-Muslim and someone who knows the Qur'an a hell of a lot better than you, I would say the Qur'an is a much better piece of nonsense than the Bible - in particular the Old Testament - which portrays God as a capricious, cruel, sadistic tyrant with a creepy love of blood sacrifice.

    But, hey, carry on laughing and making snide comments about Islam. When we ex-Muslims see such love, integrity, and good character from you orthodox/literalist Christians it makes us all want to convert so that Jesus can save us from the eternal torment you believe your God has waiting for us if we don't.
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #46 - May 29, 2010, 10:02 AM

    ^^ Booyah !
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #47 - May 29, 2010, 10:07 AM

    Asa general rule,we accept the simplest explanations of things unless there is a reason not to... The most obvious explanation is that Mohammed made a mistake and the result was the Miriam anachrononism in the quran.


    The most simple explanation for Christianity is that people made it up over a number of years, the same for the Torah too.  Not only is there no evidence of any miracles there is an embarrassing lack of evidence (for example of slavery in Egypt, and any mass exodus.)

    Also, when Jesus apparently rose from the dead lots of pious people climbed out of their tombs and went into the city to talk to people - yet not a single historian recorded this slightly unusual event?

    Try applying your "objectivity" to your own religion, Christianity is one million times less credible than Islam due to its extraordinary claims.  So, here's the question, which is the most simple explanation?

    Scenario A:
    There is a God who from time to time intervenes in human affairs on a massive scale, only to then leave without any evidence he was ever there.
    He loves some people more than others, to the point that he even wants some people dead, but mostly gets people to kill people, presumably through idleness or inability.
    He hated the Egyptians so much he killed them himself by suspending the universal laws of physics in order to drown them....rather than just making them drop dead.
    To guide people he incarnated himself as a human.
    His mother was a Virgin (what's the religious obsession with women's vaginas?)
    He healed the sick, made the blind see, made the disabled walk, cured leprosy, and said "don't tell anyone"
    He defied the law of conservation of energy just to create fish sandwiches.
    Took a walk on some water just to prove he was god, but was only willing to do it to a few men rather than to everyone.
    Got himself crucified.
    Rose from the dead.
    Rose all the local pious people from the dead so they could tell everyone, but no historian wrote about it.
    Instead of showing everyone he was alive, he showed a couple of people and then disappeared somewhere.
    And after all this for some reason it is more virtuous to believe without proof than it is to have proof.

    Scenario B:
    It was all made up over a number of years.
    There is a lack of evidence because it was made up.
    God no longer appears because.....he never has, it was made up.
    God wants us to believe without proof because....people who make up incredible claims cannot provide proof.

    Now considering there is absolutely no proof of anything supernatural at all, which do you honestly think is the "simplest explanation"?  Are you going to accept the simplest explanation as your general rule, or does it not apply when it comes to stuff you WANT to be true?

    And my final question.  What is it with wanting to believe despite having no proof? Personally I find gullibility to be an undesirable personality trait, why would God want it?  If God wants us to be gullible then we find ourselves in a position where we can believe any old crap; Islam, Hinduism, Mormonism, ad nauseam.  Whereas if he provided one single piece of evidence (like an indestructible floating rock with the 10 commandments on it) at least everyone in the world would get a fair chance at getting the religion right wouldn't they?

    Yet again if you answer with "because it was made up" it makes sense.  You are only required to believe without proof when no proof can be provided.  Natural humans cannot produce supernatural events and can therefore not provide proof; so it's no surprise that it is more pious to believe without proof, is it?

    Anything that doesn't make sense to you gets shelved at the back of your mind labelled "God will explain when I die".  That's crap!  If God is perfect then everything would make perfect sense!  Take EVERYTHING off that mental shelf you have and write it down on paper.  On the right hand side try to write an explanation, see how complicated and contradictory your explanations are.  Now write them down again, only this time on the right hand side of the paper write down "Man made it up" and see not only how simple the explanation is, but how it is the SAME explanation for everything.  Then you will get your answer!


    (Rant over)

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #48 - May 29, 2010, 10:33 AM

    ^^ Booyah ! Nr. 2

    By the way Muhammad was a pedophile but he was no village drunk. Let him have a shred of dignity will ya!
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #49 - May 29, 2010, 10:41 AM

    gilito is not a christian, is he?

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #50 - May 29, 2010, 10:56 AM

    He didn't state it... he said Satan took him to the highest mountain so that he could see all the kingdoms of the earth! what a retard this Biblcal Jesus was... didn't he know that even atop the highest mountain, you can't see the entire earth, because it's round?


    Good one.  I've not read all of the new testament, the old testament + Quran were enough for me.  I'm glad you pointed that one out though, I'll enjoy using that.

    Of course Christians will say "It's metaphorical" - at least this time they will be able to say what it is metaphorical for "He showed him a lot of places, so he could see what he would possess + more".  That's the problem with religion, people morph it on demand.  That's what originally attracted me to Islam, the idea that the literal word of God was literal and therefore falsifiable, evidently I didn't think it lived up to its claim.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #51 - May 29, 2010, 11:15 AM

    oh well, I broke the ban on myself Smiley

    Quote
    Of course Christians will say "It's metaphorical" - at least this time they will be able to say what it is metaphorical for "He showed him a lot of places, so he could see what he would possess + more".  

     

    No.. Christians can't escape this one. .. saying that Satan actually had to take Jesus to a mountain to see all the kingdoms of the earth, that Satan would give him, is undeniable truth that the Biblical Jesus, thought the Earth was flat... if the verses simply didn't mention any mountains and that Satan simply shown him all the kingdoms (regardless of how he did this), then there's no problem here... but the Biblical Jesus thought that if he climbed a high enough mountain he'd see all the world... this, not only shows the Biblical Jesus didn't know basic cosmology (despite his being, supposedly, Yahweh incarnate or, at least, Son of Yahweh), it clearly shows he was a shameless liar!

    Oh well, if people are willing to believe that an outcast has the power to offer the crown prince his own kingdom  wacko, then I guess they would be able to believe the high mountain bit.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #52 - May 29, 2010, 11:52 AM

    oh well, I broke the ban on myself Smiley


    Haram Smiley

     
    No.. Christians can't escape this one. .. saying that Satan actually had to take Jesus to a mountain to see all the kingdoms of the earth, that Satan would give him, is undeniable truth that the Biblical Jesus, thought the Earth was flat... if the verses simply didn't mention any mountains and that Satan simply shown him all the kingdoms (regardless of how he did this), then there's no problem here... but the Biblical Jesus thought that if he climbed a high enough mountain he'd see all the world... this, not only shows the Biblical Jesus didn't know basic cosmology (despite his being, supposedly, Yahweh incarnate or, at least, Son of Yahweh), it clearly shows he was a shameless liar!

    Oh well, if people are willing to believe that an outcast has the power to offer the crown prince his own kingdom  wacko, then I guess they would be able to believe the high mountain bit.


    I agree with you completely, it is certainly a single fact that disproves the whole thing.  However we both know they will either claim it is metaphorical, or that it was written down incorrectly or something.  They will find a way to excuse it.  But you must realise that I as an outside 3rd party see exactly the same from Muslims?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #53 - May 29, 2010, 12:17 PM

    Quote
    I agree with you completely, it is certainly a single fact that disproves the whole thing.  However we both know they will either claim it is metaphorical, or that it was written down incorrectly or something.  


    like I said, the mountain cannot have been used metaphorically here... it was NEEDED as a platform for the Biblical Jesus to see all the world.

    Quote
    They will find a way to excuse it.  But you must realise that I as an outside 3rd party see exactly the same from Muslims?


    of course! everyone's got their biases... but if you remember how this conversation about flat Earth started, it was Marie who replied with an utterly irrelevant remark about flat earth in the Quran, out of the blue... the argument I was making had absolutely nothing to do with science... anyway, she got what she begged for.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #54 - May 29, 2010, 12:34 PM

    like I said, the mountain cannot have been used metaphorically here... it was NEEDED as a platform for the Biblical Jesus to see all the world.

    of course! everyone's got their biases... but if you remember how this conversation about flat Earth started, it was Marie who replied with an utterly irrelevant remark about flat earth in the Quran, out of the blue... the argument I was making had absolutely nothing to do with science... anyway, she got what she begged for.


    No, we both agree that the mountain is not metaphorical, but they will still claim it is.

    I also think that if there were a man named Imram (same or similar to Amran) and he was religious he would be likely to name his children Aaron and Miriam.  It's not the most simple explanation but it's also not a very unlikely explanation, it has credibility and gives me no reason to doubt it.

    "Oh yeah and the Quran says the Earth is flat" is a typical distraction technique from someone losing an argument Smiley

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #55 - May 29, 2010, 12:44 PM

    Quote
    I also think that if there were a man named Amram (same or similar to Imran) and he was religious he would be likely to name his children Aaron and Miriam.  It's not the most simple explanation but it's also not a very unlikely explanation, it has credibility and gives me no reason to doubt it.


    The story told in the Quran, pictures MARYAM (Jesus' mother) as an orphan... and the language used by her mother, when she conceived her, strongly suggests that MARYAM was a first born, an only child... thus, no siblings.

    Quote
    No, we both agree that the mountain is not metaphorical, but they will still claim it is.


    like I said, if they have no problem with the idea that a lowly outcast can offer the Crown Prince his own kingdom, then they surely would have no problem with Jesus needing a very high mountain to see all the world.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #56 - May 29, 2010, 12:56 PM

    The story told in the Quran, pictures MARYAM (Jesus' mother) as an orphan... and the language used by her mother, when she conceived her, strongly suggests that MARYAM was a first born, an only child... thus, no siblings.


    I don't recall that verse (don't quote it, not that interested either:) ) - I remembered her going to another family to be raised but didn't equate this with her being an orphan.  I think the argument that "Daughter of X" isn't as credible though. 

    The other place where "daughters" is translated to mean "our women folk" is when Lut tells the town's people to "take my daughters, they are more lawful for you".

    But what has always confused me is, why didn't Muhammad say "Oh sister of Moses" considering Moses was the more prominent figure?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #57 - May 29, 2010, 01:07 PM

    Quote
    I don't recall that verse (don't quote it, not that interested either:) ) - I remembered her going to another family to be raised but didn't equate this with her being an orphan.  I think the argument that "Daughter of X" isn't as credible though.  

     

    Actually the Quran says Zacharia became her guardian after a competition with others... all wanted the honor of becoming the guardian of MARYAM (her parents were pious people).

    Quote
    I think the argument that "Daughter of X" isn't as credible though.


    According to Quran, the name of Jesus' grandfather was ImraN... Shia claim otherwise, so if you see this claim on an Islamic web site, it's a Shia website.

    Quote
    The other place where "daughters" is translated to mean "our women folk" is when Lut tells the town's people to "take my daughters, they are more lawful for you".


    did you read that in some Islamic apologetic site? No, the verse specifically referred to his daughters.

    Quote
    But what has always confused me is, why didn't Muhammad say "Oh sister of Moses" considering Moses was the more prominent figure?


    Indeed, if Muhammed thought Mary was sister of Moses, and Moses being a highly esteemed prophet in the Quran, then why didn't he say: 'O, Sister of Moses'? but that's only one point, among many, refuting the desperate lie that the Quran confused MARYAM, mother of Jesus, with MARYAM, sister of Moses (who was never referred to by name in the baby Moses story).

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #58 - May 29, 2010, 01:32 PM

    No, the verse specifically referred to his daughters.


    So Lut was considered a pious person and had his life spared despite offering his daughters to be gang banged by the entire men folk of the village?  Because gang raping women is "more lawful" than two men consenting to homosexuality?

    Indeed, if Muhammed thought Mary was sister of Moses, and Moses being a highly esteemed prophet in the Quran, then why didn't he say: 'O, Sister of Moses'? but that's only one point, among many, refuting the desperate lie that the Quran confused MARYAM, mother of Jesus, with MARYAM, sister of Moses (who was never referred to by name in the baby Moses story).


    The choice of Aaron always confused me, but it still makes as little sense if they were saying "oh pious person akin to Aaron" because again why would they not use the more prominent character Moses?  It's just like naming the least known member of a pop group Smiley  That's why I assumed she must have had a biological brother named Aaron, it made the most sense.

    I don't think it's accurate though to call it a lie.  It's only a lie if you are concealing the truth, if you are unaware of what the truth is then it is at worst an error is it not?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The curious case of Miriam and her brother
     Reply #59 - May 29, 2010, 06:03 PM

    Debunker and QueenIsabel/Marie, I feel a "love connection" developing...well...that or a "forbidden lust connection" developing. Come on guys, let's have you guys get down with some hot skeptical Muslim on fundamentalist Christian action. I don't blame you guys if you deny it-- after all, the secrecy helps make it so hot.


     Cheesy
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