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Theme Changer

 Topic: Love

 (Read 19577 times)
  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Love
     OP - May 28, 2010, 07:03 PM
    Though I suspect there are many darwinists here that will probably reduce love down to either the rapid production of dopomine or a parasitic meme but I would like to ask, what do you think love is? Is it more than just brain chemistry? Is it an ontological part of reality or just a fiction of the human mind?
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Love
     Reply #1 - May 28, 2010, 07:09 PM
    "And among His signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in peace and tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): Verily in that are signs for those who reflect" (Quran 30:21).

    One of my favourite Ayahs.
    ...nor shall they encompass aught of His knowledge, except as He willeth...
  • Re: Love
     Reply #2 - May 28, 2010, 07:13 PM
    Quote from: z10 on May 28, 2010, 07:03 PM
    Though I suspect there are many darwinists here that will probably reduce love down to either the rapid production of dopomine or a parasitic meme but I would like to ask, what do you think love is? Is it more than just brain chemistry? Is it an ontological part of reality or just a fiction of the human mind?


    It's a combination of brain chemistry, primate social behavior and a human social construct, as most emotions and their related concepts are. Still can be pretty cool, though.
    fuck you
  • Re: Love
     Reply #3 - May 28, 2010, 07:14 PM
    Isn't there a song that goes something along the lines of...

    'I don't know what love iiiiiiissss!'

    Which would, incidentally, be my answer.

    But I think it has Darwinian utility in that it helps to cement social bonds among social species.
  • Re: Love
     Reply #4 - May 28, 2010, 08:55 PM
    Quote from: z10 on May 28, 2010, 07:03 PM
    Though I suspect there are many darwinists here that will probably reduce love down to either the rapid production of dopomine or a parasitic meme but I would like to ask, what do you think love is? Is it more than just brain chemistry? Is it an ontological part of reality or just a fiction of the human mind?


    Darwinism doesn't "reduce" love.  Just because you can describe a flower scientifically doesn't make the flower less beautiful, I suspect that if you understand the way the atoms interact with each other at an atomic level you get the privilege of seeing the beauty of the flower at a whole new deeper level.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Love
     Reply #5 - May 28, 2010, 08:58 PM
    love? i reckon 'evolution did it'
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Love
     Reply #6 - May 28, 2010, 09:03 PM
    Quote from: z10 on May 28, 2010, 07:03 PM
    Though I suspect there are many darwinists here that will probably reduce love down to either the rapid production of dopomine or a parasitic meme but I would like to ask, what do you think love is? Is it more than just brain chemistry? Is it an ontological part of reality or just a fiction of the human mind?

    Good question, but it needs to be separated from all the other common definitions as there are different answers for each of them.  I assume you mean love for your partner, rather than love for an idea or material belonging.  In which case, are you talking about the initial lust phase or the love that you feel after that.

    I have an answer for both, and it goes down the reductionist rationalist path as you might have guessed.

    And while we are on the subject can you let us have your answer Wink  On a tangential question, could I also have your thoughts on Darwinian evolutionary theory and whether you 100% believe in it for now?
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  • Re: Love
     Reply #7 - May 28, 2010, 09:06 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 28, 2010, 08:58 PM
    love? i reckon 'evolution did it'

    Thanks, just noticed this but actually this is my answer if it suffices and explains the tangential question I just asked.  It'll save me writing a humungous post later  Afro
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  • Re: Love
     Reply #8 - May 28, 2010, 09:16 PM
    Any other explanation will need to incorporate the reason why humans can fall in love again & again with different people
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  • Re: Love
     Reply #9 - May 28, 2010, 09:26 PM
    Quote from: z10 on May 28, 2010, 07:03 PM
    Though I suspect there are many darwinists here that will probably reduce love down to either the rapid production of dopomine or a parasitic meme but I would like to ask, what do you think love is? Is it more than just brain chemistry? Is it an ontological part of reality or just a fiction of the human mind?

    I don't think we understand enough about how the mind works to use terms like 'fiction of the human mind'.  What do you mean fiction?  You mean the mind making stuff up?  Well, isn't that what a thought is?
    I don't believe in anything supernatural at all.  If something amazing can be proven, it would still be natural.  Nevertheless, there's no harm speculating about things we haven't proven or cannot prove.  In fact, there a lot of benefit in that.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Love
     Reply #10 - May 28, 2010, 09:28 PM
    Now if you will forgive me, I will post a music video:

    Haddaway-What is Love?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsCXZczTQXo

    (mods: if you really think this should be moved to the music thread, feel free to move it)
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Love
     Reply #11 - May 28, 2010, 09:42 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on May 28, 2010, 08:55 PM
    Darwinism doesn't "reduce" love.  Just because you can describe a flower scientifically doesn't make the flower less beautiful, I suspect that if you understand the way the atoms interact with each other at an atomic level you get the privilege of seeing the beauty of the flower at a whole new deeper level.


    I don't think he meant "reduce" in that sense, I think he meant it in the sense of materialist reductionism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductionism
    fuck you
  • Re: Love
     Reply #12 - May 28, 2010, 09:51 PM
    So I hear guys do stupid things when they're in "LOVE".
    Any of you guys wanna share popcorn...
    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: Love
     Reply #13 - May 28, 2010, 09:56 PM
    I sang one of Barry White's numbers to a girl once whilst making love.  I cant believe I just admitted that Embarrassed

    What made it even more embarrassing was that she looked at me kinda funny so I had to immediately stop.
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  • Re: Love
     Reply #14 - May 28, 2010, 09:56 PM
    Never did anything particularly stupid besides let myself get upset over a girl.

    Never punched out a guy who was talking to my girl, ruined a relationship with a friend or family member over a girl, moved across the country for a girl only to have her break up with me a couple of months later, spent a ridiculous amount of money on a girl, changed my job or lifestyle for a girl. I'd say those are probably the most common "stupid" things guys in love do.
    fuck you
  • Re: Love
     Reply #15 - May 28, 2010, 10:02 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on May 28, 2010, 09:56 PM
    I sang one of Barry White's numbers to a girl once whilst making love.  I cant believe I just admitted that Embarrassed

    What made it even more embarrassing was that she looked at me kinda funny so I had to immediately stop.


     Cheesy  Cheesy

    what song?
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Love
     Reply #16 - May 28, 2010, 10:03 PM
    Thats enough home truths for now  finmad
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  • Re: Love
     Reply #17 - May 28, 2010, 10:29 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np5VvHx-1T4&feature=fvst
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Love
     Reply #18 - May 28, 2010, 10:38 PM
    Quote from: z10 on May 28, 2010, 07:03 PM
    Though I suspect there are many darwinists here that will probably reduce love down to either the rapid production of dopomine or a parasitic meme but I would like to ask, what do you think love is? Is it more than just brain chemistry? Is it an ontological part of reality or just a fiction of the human mind?


    I don't know.
  • Re: Love
     Reply #19 - May 28, 2010, 10:42 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 28, 2010, 10:29 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np5VvHx-1T4&feature=fvst


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGOohBytKTU
  • Re: Love
     Reply #20 - May 28, 2010, 10:45 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 28, 2010, 10:29 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np5VvHx-1T4&feature=fvst

    lun pe char, bhangra kar
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  • Re: Love
     Reply #21 - May 28, 2010, 10:51 PM
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lun%20pe%20char
     Cheesy
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Love
     Reply #22 - May 28, 2010, 11:03 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on May 28, 2010, 09:03 PM
    Good question, but it needs to be separated from all the other common definitions as there are different answers for each of them.  I assume you mean love for your partner, rather than love for an idea or material belonging.  In which case, are you talking about the initial lust phase or the love that you feel after that.

    I have an answer for both, and it goes down the reductionist rationalist path as you might have guessed.

    And while we are on the subject can you let us have your answer Wink  On a tangential question, could I also have your thoughts on Darwinian evolutionary theory and whether you 100% believe in it for now?


    I don't think we need to seperate out love for a person from love for an idea, both can be felt just as passionately.

    My answer? I'm not sure and I'd be lying if I told you anything else, though I suspect love is more than just a feeling - perhaps, and I do not stand by this completely, but love could be the very reason for being.

    Evolution is an accepted scientific theory and I accept it as much as I accept any other scientific construct - it makes sense and it is useful in constructing further theories and concepts to make our human vantage point seem more useful. However, science isn't in the business of making true statements, it's in the business of making of falsifiable statements. Evolution is a useful theory, just like gravity, but it isn't the truth no matter how close it gets.

    And to get back to love, it is the only principle upon which a utopia can be built, it is the greatest feeling man has ever experienced, it is the meaningful part of our existence. I don't know how or why love is, but I know that what it is must be more than a reduction to materialist ontology.

    And yes, sorry therationaliser for not being clear, q-man is correct - I did mean materialist reductionism in a metaphysical sense.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Love
     Reply #23 - May 28, 2010, 11:10 PM
    Quote from: z10 on May 28, 2010, 11:03 PM
    I don't think we need to seperate out love for a person from love for an idea, both can be felt just as passionately.

    My answer? I'm not sure and I'd be lying if I told you anything else, though I suspect love is more than just a feeling - perhaps, and I do not stand by this completely, but love could be the very reason for being.

    Evolution is an accepted scientific theory and I accept it as much as I accept any other scientific construct - it makes sense and it is useful in constructing further theories and concepts to make our human vantage point seem more useful. However, science isn't in the business of making true statements, it's in the business of making of falsifiable statements. Evolution is a useful theory, just like gravity, but it isn't the truth no matter how close it gets.

    And to get back to love, it is the only principle upon which a utopia can be built, it is the greatest feeling man has ever experienced, it is the meaningful part of our existence. I don't know how or why love is, but I know that what it is must be more than a reduction to materialist ontology.

    And yes, sorry therationaliser for not being clear, q-man is correct - I did mean materialist reductionism in a metaphysical sense.


    I honestly don't know what love is - that was a serious response.

    I love my kids, and I have loved women - and still feel affection for the ones I have loved.

    I think real love is to love everyone.

    Can you love everyone?

    All humanity.

    I'm not sure I can - but I honestly don't hate anyone - really!

    If I had to go into details it would be hard - because you could bring up all sorts of hateful characters.

    But believe me I can find ways not to hate them.
  • Re: Love
     Reply #24 - May 28, 2010, 11:12 PM
    I love you all because you are good people and I love good.
  • Re: Love
     Reply #25 - May 28, 2010, 11:13 PM
    Quote from: ateapotist on May 28, 2010, 10:51 PM
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lun%20pe%20char
     Cheesy

    The rest of it, I am sure you understand. 'kar' means 'do' and , well you know what Bhangra is.  

    Just picture AbuY doing it, thats all I need you to do.
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  • Re: Love
     Reply #26 - May 28, 2010, 11:22 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 28, 2010, 11:10 PM
    I honestly don't know what love is - that was a serious response.



    I believe you hassan, there are not many things I know either  Smiley

    And I agree with you, hate is such a waste of time. Though until you can love a beautiful sunset just as much as you can love hitler, are you really a loving person? Hate is a difficult emotion to get away from, just like fear. In truth, like you said, we have to though, you can't live a fulfilling life with residues of hate hanging around in the corners of your life and your subconscious.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Love
     Reply #27 - May 29, 2010, 12:01 AM
    Its a nice way of looking at things, but we need a range of emotions in order to experience love.  And that includes hate.

    I do hate Hitler.  I hate disease that give young toddlers a low & painful death before they have had a chance to appreciate life.  I hate failing in things I care about.  I hate cruel, horrible, selfish & sadistic people have the ability and sometimes the power to manipulate or bully weaker people into doing what they want.  I hate supremacism, racism, homophobia.  Oh, and btw I'd hate to eat poo  Tongue

    That is reality, and we were born to evoke this range of emotions to help fix them.  And its not just us, part of the natural world feels it too.

    But I can live with it because I dont expect an unconscious cosmos to care.  Its those that thinks its conscious that can run into continual disappointment, so why bother?  Wishful thinking, hoping there is more? For me its a temporary fix that inevitably leads to disappointment?

    Its not a perfect world, so I keep sane because I realise that there are far more good people than bad.  Thats good enough for me, it has to be because I am left with no other choice.
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  • Re: Love
     Reply #28 - May 30, 2010, 10:56 PM
    Love is our desperate measure to heal up the wounds of loneliness
  • Re: Love
     Reply #29 - May 31, 2010, 06:42 AM
    Quote from: Q-Man on May 28, 2010, 09:56 PM
    Never did anything particularly stupid besides let myself get upset over a girl.

    Never punched out a guy who was talking to my girl, ruined a relationship with a friend or family member over a girl, moved across the country for a girl only to have her break up with me a couple of months later, spent a ridiculous amount of money on a girl, changed my job or lifestyle for a girl. I'd say those are probably the most common "stupid" things guys in love do.


    It's cause you're gay.
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