Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #420 - June 05, 2010, 10:45 AM

Hang on, are you sure this guy wasn't even on the ship?

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #421 - June 05, 2010, 11:04 AM

Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on June 04, 2010, 10:37 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likud#Likud_charter

* The 1999 Likud charter emphasized the right of settlement in "Judea, Samaria and Azzah" (also known as the "West Bank" and Gaza)," and as such, brings it into direct conflict with Palestinian claims on the same territory. Similarly, their claims of the Jordan River as the permanent eastern border to Israel and Jerusalem as "the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel," do the same.

* The 'Peace & Security' chapter of the 1999 Likud Party platform “flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.” The chapter continued: “The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state.”

Interesting to note the mentality, thanks. Well, there will be shared-faith/Esprit de Corps based rhetoric on both right-wing sides. However I did read somewhere for pragmatic reasons they are building the settlements. As I see it, the settlements reasoning is because of legitimate economic growth and/or divide & conquer on the Palestinians to stop them from having their own state. I just want to see the evidence before putting percentage to each weight.

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #422 - June 05, 2010, 11:10 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on June 05, 2010, 10:45 AM
Hang on, are you sure this guy wasn't even on the ship?

Quote
Mankell, whose detective novels featuring the commissar Kurt Wallander have sold almost 30m copies worldwide, was aboard the Swedish ship Sofia, one of six ships in the flotilla carrying aid to Gaza. The 25-strong crew, including Mankell, were all arrested and held in custody.

Quote
"Our idea had been a non-violent, non-fighting back method. But we soon realised the Israelis had chosen the real, real ugly solution to attack in international water … It was only when I got on my flight home that I realised that people had died in the attack, when the stewardess told me on the plane," he said.

Bolding by me

Quote
Mankell described being woken in the early hours of Monday morning with the news that Israeli troops were attacking the main protest ship, the Mavi Marmara, and an hour later abseiled from helicopters on to the deck of the Sofia, which was around a kilometre behind.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/03/gaza-flotilla-attack-henning-mankell

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #423 - June 05, 2010, 11:19 AM

I should have picked up on that. So basically he's full of it. Not surprising for a guy who writes fiction for a living. He should work for the IDF's PR department.

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #424 - June 05, 2010, 12:00 PM

Some points by Murray:

Proof that our new Government is grovelling to Islamists

... and ...

The reaction to this incident demonstrates once again that many people in Britain just cannot see that Israel’s enemies are our enemies. Not because we want it that way. But because our enemies want it that way. Much of the British commentariat seem desperate to pretend it isn’t so, because they wish it wasn’t so.

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #425 - June 05, 2010, 12:09 PM

Paloma, just a point for you. You cannot judge the degree of food stress in an area by the visability of food in the market. This is basic fact. The economics of food is much more complicated than that.

The sad reality of famines (and I am not saying that Gaza is suffering a famine, we are not really given sufficient evidence to judge this), is that there is (almost) always an abundance of food in the local markets (North Korea being an exception, but their economy is atypical). So whether it is Somalia, Ethiopia, DRC, or wherever, journalists, aid workers, etc always find that in the face of a population malnourished and starving, there is plenty of food available for purchase in the local markets.

The Israeli blockade of goods is not the direct cause of food stress in Gaza (most things do become available through informal channels). It is the disruption of trade and the economy of Gaza that impedes efficient local production and distribution, and the fiscal ability of Gazans to purchase what they need.

And about the obesity prevelence table your cut and pasted. There are a few problems which you may or may not be aware of.
Firstly, Gaza is lumped together with the West Bank, and these are not comparable locations (I don't think I need to explain why).
Secondly, the existence of large numbers of obese people does not equate to the absense of undernourished people. Indeed, being obese does not mean you are not undernourished, since you may be very undernourished in certain parts of your diet.
Lasly, and most importantly, the table is made up of date gathered from 1999-2003. It therefore has not relevence to the debate on how the Israeli blockade has affected Gaza

You should be more cautious about swallowing distorted information in the future.
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #426 - June 05, 2010, 12:32 PM

Quote from: MrSilly on June 05, 2010, 12:09 PM

The Israeli blockade of goods is not the direct cause of food stress in Gaza (most things do become available through informal channels). It is the disruption of trade and the economy of Gaza that impedes efficient local production and distribution, and the fiscal ability of Gazans to purchase what they need.
................

That is true MrSilly., The stress in Muslim folks, young, old and woman is not because Lack of Food., Indeed there is another very important reason for Psychologicals stress of these people that comes from Islamic preachings in home in Mosques and in political affiliations ..

when you have these indoctrination sermons day in and day out right from the age of two to all the way to 50 year old you have problem in the society..

on Children TV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H26ylBsAknw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhbHVEGnYD8

In Mosques
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H8HFb-YG00

In home Martyrdom preaching from mothers..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIBNRVgq59Y

In Islamic political violence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoH19b1TrZo d

Unless young men are like Mosab Hassan Yousef and start using common sense to analyze whole society and it sreligion/culture and past like this son of Hamas leader

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DINkAk-NzHU

This stress problem in the society will continue to the end. Indeed you are right saying Israeli blockade of goods is not the direct cause of food stress in Gaza

The stress built in to Islamic society that follows Quran/Sunnah/Hadith .. couple that and see around how people are moving forward in 21 st century , the youn men will build frustration and stress in their life.

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #427 - June 05, 2010, 12:57 PM

I wasn't talking about psychological stress.......
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #428 - June 05, 2010, 01:19 PM

@Mr.Silly

Did you read the report by Steffen Jensen I quoted in my post ?

I believe he said more or less the same as you.

Quote
Lasly, and most importantly, the table is made up of date gathered from 1999-2003. It therefore has not relevence to the debate on how the Israeli blockade has affected Gaza

You should be more cautious about swallowing distorted information in the future.

Noted - will do.

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #429 - June 05, 2010, 01:28 PM

Quote from: Paloma
@Mr.Silly

Did you read the report by Steffen Jensen I quoted in my post ?

Yes, I had the privalege to have read it before you posted it on the forum.

Quote from: Paloma
I believe he said more or less the same as you.

Either you didn't read the Economist article, or you didn't read my post. We are not saying the same thing at all
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #430 - June 05, 2010, 01:32 PM

According to amnesty international four out of five Gazans are depended on humanitarian food aid!

"Israels official say that the blockade is a collective punishment of Gazans, which is a flagrant violation of international law.
The israels continues to deny Palestinians fair acess to adequate safe water supply, and is hindering social and economic development and posing threat to health, and is a violation of its responsebility as a occupying power. The isreals repeatedly destroy rainwater harvesting cisterns, used by the Palestinians, on the grounds that the cisterns had been built without permission.!"

I am surprised that so many in this thread, is not accepting the violation of human right on the Palestinians from Israel, because they are muslims.
I would recommend all of you supporting Israel, to google Mads Gilbert, the norwegian doctor who has worked in Gaza for years.

I can understand osmanthus jokes on Henning Mankell, who never read him,but he is an respected writer in europa. With a humanist approach to the world.

In 2009 he was one of the many authors from all over the world, in the Palestinian Festival of Literature,held in Palestinian National Theathre in Jerusalem. The festival was stopped, on the grounds that the writers were a security risk. Just like any other muslim tyrant regimes are they afraid of the free speach.

I hope the americans stopp their licking of the israelis ass.
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #431 - June 05, 2010, 01:44 PM

No, I didn´t read the Economist article (you have to subscribe to read their articles) I got the table off a blog.

However, Steffen Jensen didn´t write the Economist article. He is the correspondent of the Danish TV network TV2 and it was his report from Gaza I asked if you had read. In it he describes how there appears to be plenty of food, but points out that not all Gazans can afford to buy it.

The headline of his report is : the situation in Gaza: the problem is lack of work rather than lack of food

That was the similarity I referred to between his report and your post.

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #432 - June 05, 2010, 01:45 PM

Quote from: marleya
According to amnesty international four out of five Gazans are depended on humanitarian food aid!

I don't think Amnesty International is the authorative voice on this paticular subject. They should stick to the core base.

4 out of 5 Britons are dependent on state aid in some form. These sorts of statements are meaningless.
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #433 - June 05, 2010, 02:09 PM

Quote
(Clicky for piccy!)
Navy boats approach ship

Takeover ended in 5 minutes

Ron Ben-Yishai reports from the field: Five days after bloody raid on Marmara, Navy stages peaceful takeover at sea; female combat soldiers take part in quick raid on Rachel Corrie, fighters board ship using rope ladders
Ron Ben-Yishai

Just five minutes – this is the estimated time it took Israel's Navy to commandeer the Rachel Corrie Ship en route to the Gaza Strip.

The raid got underway with the vessel roughly 23 miles west of the Gaza shore, right on the boundary of the naval blockade imposed on the strip. Navy Chief Major General Eliezer Marom received the chief of staff's approval before proceeding. The top military officials were also in touch with Defense Minister Ehud Barak during the operation.

The overall operation was headed by the commander of Israel's missile boat fleet, while the actual raid on the ship was led by the commander of the Flotilla 13 commando unit, Colonel A.

The decision to take over the vessel was taken roughly at 12 pm, when it became clear that the ship had no intention of complying with the Navy's messages and turn to the Ashded port for an inspection.

The vessel's captain was informed that Navy soldiers will board the ship in line with international law and without using force, and that the IDF expected personnel on the ship to behave similarly.

4 female fighters
The captain made it clear to the forces he had no intention to offer violent resistance. He gathered the 11 passengers and crewmembers on the ship's deck, where they peacefully waited for the Navy's boats. The Navy dispatched three missile boats to the area, as well as several patrol vessels which have been accompanying the Rachel Corrie since Friday. Additional missile boats were deployed in case the operation turned violent.

Shortly before 12:30, two missile boats reached the Rachel Corrie carrying about 20 combat soldiers, including four female fighters belonging to the Navy's special security unit, in charge of securing ports and vessels. The females were brought in so that they personally handle the females on board, including Nobel Prize Laureate Mairead Maguire.

The Navy commander was on board a nearby missile boat along with Flotilla 13's commander during the operation. The fighters boarded the ship using rope ladders without facing any resistance, explained their demands to the captain, and ensured they were being met.

The operation took about five minutes, with activists on board the ship yelling slogans at Navy troops but refraining from any violence. The incident highlighted the difference between passengers on Board the Marmara, who planned a violent and lethal clash in order to smear Israel, and Rachel Carrie activists. The Navy said the latter activists were part of a "provocative sail", but made do with conveying their political message, thereby averting any kind of violent clash.

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3899298,00.html
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #434 - June 05, 2010, 02:24 PM

Quote from: marleya on June 05, 2010, 01:32 PM
I am surprised that so many in this thread, is not accepting the violation of human right on the Palestinians from Israel, because they are muslims.
I would recommend all of you supporting Israel, to google Mads Gilbert, the norwegian doctor who has worked in Gaza for years.

so you basically saying that sanctions for instance against Iran would be inhuman? hamas if was a responsible body there would not be a blockade. for 8 years Israel's civilians rights been violated where were you?
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #435 - June 05, 2010, 02:36 PM

IDF video of MV Rachel Corrie boarded by Israeli Navy
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=GRpJJshBjNc

Rachel Corrie' boarded and towed, no violence reported - Israeli military
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=ISl5yIPBMjw

How come No one got killed .. NO TURKS On board with Allahaaa hoo Akbaaar rantings??

no Intifada shouting ??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk

on one from that Rachel Corrie aspire to die as martyrs ??

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=HThF8ft5Cls

Strange People on this Ship Rachel Corrie ..(Rachel Corrie rest in peace ) Dammit Build school for children in the name of Rachel Corrie in Gaza strip.. and don't preach All hoo Akbaaar in every day morning class..

Stupid TURKISH redneck BUMS with sticks and rods fighting IDF in high seas who have orders to shoot any one who come to fight... The results are deadly..

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #436 - June 05, 2010, 02:36 PM

collective punishment likely to happen with sanctions and blockades. the prime aim is to press besieged regime. in this case hamas.
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #437 - June 05, 2010, 02:53 PM

Wow, great, now the aid is gonna be delivered via Israel (minus some things banned by the blockade, such as cement) and the blockade will continue. Hooray for pacifism!
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #438 - June 05, 2010, 03:28 PM

Quote
Wow, great, now the aid is gonna be delivered via Israel (minus some things banned by the blockade, such as cement) and the blockade will continue. Hooray for pacifism!

Yes.. yes we got to do something with that cement., May be build some schools for kids with NGOs and UN looking after and satellite looking every inch of Gaza what they do with that cement.

We should also make sure those schools will teach secular values and sing songs against the preachings of Hamas and make sure not even a Gram of cement goes for building bunkers to the Zeros of Hamas..

Well on the way let us listen from THAT PEACE MAN Mr. Ismail Patel of Pakistan(he says he is British) on board on the day 31-05-10 Day 6 Freedom Flotilla ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=4qjN6VfQFrM&feature=related

My man says., IDF is on sky in Helicopters and he is asking British Govt for help.. may be he is asking for war ships against IDF ..

Well that may work in 20 years down the road when we have Islamic Prayers and bearded Mullah in that 10 Downing Street in London,

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #439 - June 05, 2010, 04:04 PM

losers and winners in that flotilla fiasco

Turkey's flag holds pride of place during a protest at a Lebanese refugee camp
Quote
There are winners from the Gaza flotilla and losers. In human terms, the losses begin with the battered and injured IDF soldiers who boarded the Mavi Marmara. One may wonder if we should not tally as winners the nine militant blockade runners who gained the martyrdom they sought.

But there is a geopolitical scorecard too, and here is a first estimate:
Quote
• Major loser: Hamas. Hamas tried to break the Israeli blockade and failed. You hear tough talk of a second try. It will not happen. Already, the sponsors of the next would-be blockade-runner, an Irish-backed ship named the “Rachel Corrie,” have agreed to dock at the Israeli port of Ashdod and submit to a security inspection.

Clumsily, maybe, but the message has been sent: The blockade will be enforced, and those who hope to break it must fight the Israeli navy first. And next time the commandos will not be carrying paintball guns.

The point of the flotilla was not of course to deliver humanitarian aid — or even to ease the Israeli blockade of Gaza. As is, Gaza receives more humanitarian aid every 24 hours than was contained in the entire flotilla. And of course Hamas could ease the blockade at any time by releasing Gilad Shalit and forswearing violence against Israel.
Quote
The point of the flotilla was to end Israeli inspection of Gaza cargoes, so that Hamas could resume importing weapons.

Hamas has lost that point. The inspections will continue. The weapons will not come, not by sea anyway. That’s a defeat.

• Minor loser: President Obama. President Obama’s very complex Middle East strategy envisioned a steady squeeze upon Israel.

That plan is suddenly wrecked.

• Minor winner: Mahmoud Abbas and the West Bank Palestinian Authority.
Quote
Major winner: Sorry, but the worst actor in this drama is also the biggest winner: Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Erdogan is the man who set the crisis in motion, and he will receive from the crisis exactly what he hoped. Islamists within Turkey have fabricated wild fantasies to denounce Israel as a threat to Turkey, including movies in which Americans are represented as dissecting Iraqis in order to sell their body parts in New York and Tel Aviv

Now at least Erdogan has an authentic bloody shirt to wave. The deaths of Turkish nationals will hush and embarrass the pro-Israel forces in Turkish government and society. Erdogan can now move away from an unwanted relationship — even terminate the relationship altogether — at diminished risk of triggering a negative reaction from the guardians of Turkish secularism. A cunning move by a bad man with a sinister agenda.

that is what that Canadian Guy.. A Canadian republican David Frum writes.. I may not agree with all that he writes But I certainly agree with his conclusions on Erdogan and his Turkey..

Turks Must realize that Turkey is pulling towards Mullah Political Islam.. read it all at http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/06/05/david-frum-turkey-wins-hamas-loses-from-flotilla-fiasco/

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #440 - June 05, 2010, 04:44 PM

@yeezevee: If you watched the interview of Norman Finkelstein I posted, you would've known that Hamas has given control over aid to international and non-governmental agencies and Israel has in fact allowed the passing of cement in the pass and all went A-OK. I've already mentioned this a couple of pages ago.
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #441 - June 05, 2010, 04:47 PM

Pakistani well known TV journalist Talat Hussain says he os collecting evidence against Israel

http://twocircles.net/2010jun04/pakistani_journalist_collecting_evidence_against_israel.html
Quote
Islamabad : A senior Pakistani TV anchor, who was at an Gaza-bound ship attacked by Israel, says that he is preparing written evidences against the Zionist regime to be presented at international fora.

Talat Hussain, who works for Aaj television, his producer Agha Raza and a representative of a Pakistani NGO, had been on a ship from the Peace Flotilla, carrying humanitarian aid for the besieged Gaza people.

Hussain arrived to a warn welcome Thursday night, said he is collecting written evidences which will be handed over to ICRC, UN or any independent commission for a case against Israel. He said other people on peace flotilla are also collecting similar evidences.

“Some 500 eye witnesses will have different stories but all will be unanimous to say that Israel has committed aggression, broken international law and has killed innocent people,” Hussain told reporters.

Giving details of the attack, he said that Israeli warships surrounded Flotilla at 4 a.m. and then dropped some 100 commandos in the ships. He added that Israeli commandos opened fire and threw hand grenades before they landed at the Flotilla.

He said that the ships were loaded with chairs for disable people, medicines and construction materials to be used in the reconstruction of destroyed buildings.

Hussain said that Israelis attacked the ships when they were into international waters, adding that Israel had no right to attack ships outside its maritime boundaries. “Israeli aggression was one-sided and unilateral,” he said.

He said that he was kept at a prison of Israeli army at Ashdood, adding that Israeli misbehaved all people at the humanitarian ships.

Well that is a very good point I fully support Talat Hussain in his endeavor against the Nation of Juice.,

But I also hope, my man Talat Hussain reads his own country CONSTITUTION and collect all the killings that took place in the land of pure with written evidences which should also be handed over to ICRC, UN or any independent commission for a case against Land of Pure and its ISLAM..

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #442 - June 05, 2010, 04:58 PM

Quote from: Abood on June 05, 2010, 04:44 PM
@yeezevee: If you watched the interview of Norman Finkelstein I posted, you would've known that Hamas has given control over aid to international and non-governmental agencies and Israel has in fact allowed the passing of cement in the pass and all went A-OK. I've already mentioned this a couple of pages ago.

Good I am glad Hamas is learning and there is a long way to go dear Abood.

And Palestine Hamas must realize that they should act, think and work INDEPENDENT of International rowdy Hams (NOT HAMAS) and its leaders and look for the welfare of the population living with in Gaza .. Not shout Allah hoo Akbar with their face covered guns firing in to air..


As far as that JEW Norman Finkelstein is concerned., He should be forced to wear Burka, stay in home and cook for Jews and Muslims in a camp of Yemen. No more writings and no more public interviews.   And he should be sent to live in to that Warsaw Ghetto, the Majdanek concentration camp, or those slave labor camps where HIS MOTHER GREW UP..

FOOL.. writes about Holocaust Industry.. Look in to your mother's eyes..

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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #443 - June 05, 2010, 05:07 PM

I'm sure his mother would've been proud of him.
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #444 - June 05, 2010, 06:53 PM

Quote from: Abood on June 05, 2010, 02:53 PM
Wow, great, now the aid is gonna be delivered via Israel (minus some things banned by the blockade, such as cement) and the blockade will continue. Hooray for pacifism!

Exactly! The violent approach was once again proved to be a total disaster.

So what is the solution?

Lasting peace between Israelis and Palestinians that could be achieved only true negotiations.
A great start to peace negotiations would be the recognition of the fact that Israel exists and has a right to exist by Hamas for example.
On the other hand Israel could officially acknowledge the suffering of Palestinians.

Quote from: marleya on June 05, 2010, 01:32 PM
I am surprised that so many in this thread, is not accepting the violation of human right on the Palestinians from Israel, because they are muslims.

I am surprised that you are so blinded by emotions that you cannot even see that there isn't a single poster here who doesn't recognize that Palestinian human rights are indeed violated.

Only because they are Muslims?

Fact is that a lot of people here do not fall for simplistic propaganda and are indeed trying to rationaly debate the issue.

Unfortunately you are not one of them.
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #445 - June 05, 2010, 07:00 PM

@Kenan: This is another ship.

Also, Hamas has said ages ago that it'll recognize Israel if it withdraws to its '67 borders.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0531-23.htm

Let's also not forget the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative, which Palestinians largely support and Israel rejects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

The idea that Palestinians/Arabs refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist is a lie, a piece of propaganda by Israel to justify its reign of terror.
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #446 - June 05, 2010, 07:16 PM

Quote from: Kenan on June 05, 2010, 06:53 PM
A great start to peace negotiations would be the recognition of the fact that Israel exists and has a right to exist by Hamas for example.

Where does this "right" come from?
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #447 - June 05, 2010, 07:19 PM

A question for anybody who might be able to shed some light on the issue:

How come that Gaza strip has an outrageous natality/fertility rate?

"The Strip's population has continued to increase since that time, one of the main reasons being a total fertility rate of more than 5 children per woman. In a ranking by total fertility rate, this places Gaza 30th of 222 regions and above all non-African countries except Afghanistan and Yemen."

Quote from: Abood on June 05, 2010, 07:00 PM
@Kenan: This is another ship.

I do know that. This time the boarding was not opposed. That's the point.

Quote from: Abood on June 05, 2010, 07:00 PM
Also, Hamas has said ages ago that it'll recognize Israel if it withdraws to its '67 borders.

I do know that. Problem is '67 borders could have been a realistic solution in '67. Nowadays they are nothing but wishful thinking.

Quote from: Abood on June 05, 2010, 07:00 PM
Let's also not forget the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative, which Palestinians largely support and Israel rejects.

As far as I am aware Israel never officially refused the initiative and the initiative itself is currently on hold.
I would imagine that continuous tensions and armed conflicts between Palestinians ans Israelis and various other parties (Iran) since 2002 haven't helped much for the initiative to succeed.
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #448 - June 05, 2010, 07:20 PM

Quote from: Kenan on June 05, 2010, 06:53 PM
Exactly! The violent approach was once again proved to be a total disaster.

So what is the solution?

Lasting peace between Israelis and Palestinians that could be achieved only true negotiations.
A great start to peace negotiations would be the recognition of the fact that Israel exists and has a right to exist by Hamas for example.
On the other hand Israel could officially acknowledge the suffering of Palestinians.
I am surprised that you are so blinded by emotions that you cannot even see that there isn't a single poster here who doesn't recognize that Palestinian human rights are indeed violated.

Only because they are Muslims?

Fact is that a lot of people here do not fall for simplistic propaganda and are indeed trying to rationaly debate the issue.

Unfortunately you are not one of them.

Maybe you are right Kenan I am to emotional and not rational when it comes to Israel and Palestine.

Hamas was founded by israelis in their small beginning, to be a force against the Plo and Arafat. The islamisation of Hamas and the Palestines is a product of Israelis behaviour against the palestines since 1948.
I am sorry that I was offending. Maybe I can blame it on my emotions?
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Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
Reply #449 - June 05, 2010, 07:22 PM

Quote from: MrSilly on June 05, 2010, 07:16 PM
Where does this "right" come from?

From reality? Or from the same "right" that any other country that was established through human history with violent means would claim - and that means pretty much any nation/state on the planet.

Quote from: ygalg on June 05, 2010, 02:36 PM
collective punishment likely to happen with sanctions and blockades. the prime aim is to press besieged regime. in this case hamas.

Fun fact - Israel financially and logistically supported Hamas during the reign of Fatah in order to weaken Fatah.
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