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 Topic: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships

 (Read 107397 times)
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  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #630 - June 17, 2010, 02:03 PM

    What?

    You mean some of these people sang nasty songs and hit the armed soldiers illegally boarding their ship?

    Outrageous!

    Thanks for putting it into perspective.


    Well Hassan, what ever it was, do you beat up a policeman if he decides to pull you over and search your car?  Even if it is for no apparent reason?

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #631 - June 17, 2010, 02:12 PM

    Well Hassan, what ever it was, do you beat up a policeman if he decides to pull you over and search your car?  Even if it is for no apparent reason?


    Since when did Israel have legal jurisdiction over international waters?

    If an American policeman pulls me over in the middle of fucking Uganda you bet I will more than beat him up. I'll cut that bitch.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #632 - June 17, 2010, 02:37 PM

    Grin
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #633 - June 17, 2010, 03:04 PM

    Since when did Israel have legal jurisdiction over international waters?

    If an American policeman pulls me over in the middle of fucking Uganda you bet I will more than beat him up. I'll cut that bitch.

    You??   beating some one??  iblis..Iblis  i am not sure you know how to swim in ocean..   lol..

    Yes in international waters whoever has power they will kick., why get kicked..   better keep quite. look for other solution.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #634 - June 17, 2010, 04:45 PM

    Since when did Israel have legal jurisdiction over international waters?

    If an American policeman pulls me over in the middle of fucking Uganda you bet I will more than beat him up. I'll cut that bitch.


    Uganda is sovereign territory, international waters aren't.  Navies are allowed to search you there.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #635 - June 17, 2010, 04:50 PM

    Well Hassan, what ever it was, do you beat up a policeman if he decides to pull you over and search your car?  Even if it is for no apparent reason?


    I personally think citizens have a natural right to physically resist unlawful activity/rights violations by the police, and think this natural right should be protected by law. So if the police officer entered his car unlawfully using deadly force, without probable cause, I'd say Hassan has a right to physically resist the officer, though UK courts may very well disagree with that.

    fuck you
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #636 - June 17, 2010, 04:55 PM

    I personally think citizens have a natural right to physically resist unlawful activity/rights violations by the police, and think this natural right should be protected by law. So if the police officer entered his car unlawfully using deadly force, without probable cause, I'd say Hassan has a right to physically resist the officer, though UK courts may very well disagree with that.

    well if the other guys has deadly force and you have no force and you know he is brainless police,   you better keep quite and RECORD EVERYTHING do what that deadly force is saying to you.  How does getting killed and getting beaten by the deadly police force helps your cause however unlawful that police actions may be?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #637 - June 17, 2010, 04:57 PM

     Roll Eyes

    I'm not saying someone should do it, I'm saying they have a natural right to do it.

    fuck you
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #638 - June 17, 2010, 06:06 PM

    I personally think citizens have a natural right to physically resist unlawful activity/rights violations by the police, and think this natural right should be protected by law. So if the police officer entered his car unlawfully using deadly force, without probable cause, I'd say Hassan has a right to physically resist the officer, though UK courts may very well disagree with that.


    Deadly force is one thing, asking him to pullover is another.  The Israelis did not use any force initially, but they did when they were attacked.  Once you are attacked the situation changes, it doesn't remain peaceful anymore.  It is easy to take the side of the protesters as they didn't have guns like soldiers, but then soldiers are humans too in the end.  

    If I had a gun and I saw my friends being attacked and I knew that there was a good chance I wasn't going home, would I use it?  You bet I would.  I've seen similar situations like these that have nothing to do with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    Those soldiers were definitely not prepared for or expecting what they encountered.  It had the hallmarks of a total fuckup.

    And I'm not taking this view because I agree with everything Israel does..  I don't.  I'm quite critical of a lot of things they do, such as when they restrict the Palestinians' movements and do not let them got to see their relatives or the university if its in the WB and they're from Gaza.  I know about those things  But this is a separate issue.  You cannot group everything together.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #639 - June 17, 2010, 06:22 PM

    Deadly force is one thing, asking him to pullover is another.


    The Israelis did not get attacked when they asked them to "pull over" as far as I'm aware.

    Quote
    The Israelis did not use any force initially, but they did when they were attacked.  


    Boarding a boat against the boat owner's will with gun in hand to seize control of said boat is not "using force"? By that reasoning carjackers aren't using force.

    fuck you
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #640 - June 17, 2010, 06:24 PM

    Israelis pirated a boat armed to the teeth. Fuck that, get your own boat ya fuckin dipshits.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnAbKuGss4Y

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #641 - June 17, 2010, 09:54 PM

    The Israelis did not get attacked when they asked them to "pull over" as far as I'm aware.


    Then you are quite unaware of what happened.. Didn't you see the video of them going down the rope one by one into the mob?  Don't tell me that they were trying to seize control of the ship by violent means by going down the way they did.

    Boarding a boat against the boat owner's will with gun in hand to seize control of said boat is not "using force"? By that reasoning carjackers aren't using force.


    Didn't the captain of the boat declare that they were heading into their waters and into a conflict zone and a restricted area?

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #642 - June 18, 2010, 01:17 AM

    Then you are quite unaware of what happened.. Didn't you see the video of them going down the rope one by one into the mob?  Don't tell me that they were trying to seize control of the ship by violent means by going down the way they did.


    Yes, the heavily armed Israeli commandos were abseiling from helicopters so that they could have a nice chat with the boat's crew, then after that they would have left and let the ship go on its way.

    Now, I'm no expert in maritime customs, but it seems to me that the only reason anyone with guns would board your ship without permission is to seize control of it by force.

    Quote
    Didn't the captain of the boat declare that they were heading into their waters and into a conflict zone and a restricted area?


    Gaza's waters are not Israel's.

    fuck you
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #643 - June 18, 2010, 02:57 AM

    Yes, the heavily armed Israeli commandos were abseiling from helicopters so that they could have a nice chat with the boat's crew, then after that they would have left and let the ship go on its way.

    what IDF should have or could have done on the ship is irrelevant. They can do anything they want., they are armed and their intentions were made clear to the captain of the ship, Mava Marmara. The IDF ordered the ship to stop at 11:00pm local time on May 30th and were told to divert to the Israeli port of Ashdod. The IDF soldiers boarded  Mava Marmara at ~ 4AM of 31st May.

    The  IDF gave the following message to the captain of the Mava Marmara,

    Quote
    “Mavi Marmara, you are approaching an area of hostilities which is under a naval blockade."


    The Mava Marmara replied negatively and continued on its course.  At 4:00am local time on May 31st, members of Shayetet 13, an elite naval commando brigade, boarded the ship.  They repelled from a helicopter armed with paintball guns as a primary weapon.  Each also held a handgun.

    Quote
    Now, I'm no expert in maritime customs, but it seems to me that the only reason anyone with guns would board your ship without permission is to seize control of it by force.

    Off course IDF intentions were to seize the ships or anything that comes to missile firing range of Isreal.

    Quote
    Gaza's waters are not Israel's.

    Until the rulers of Gaza become powerful enough to challenge IDF, those waters will be controlled by IDF.  That is very clear to all the ships that are sailing in those waters..

    So what we do? run towards armed IDF soldiers with ship  metal rods, knifes, sticks and fight them  at 4AM in high seas??

     Ship captain and the in charge of that operation should be smarter to deal  with such problems. They should have prepared for that.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #644 - June 18, 2010, 03:02 AM

    All the info and arguments contained in your post is irrelevant to my position on the matter.

    fuck you
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #645 - June 18, 2010, 03:03 AM

    All the info and arguments contained in your post is irrelevant to my position on the matter.

    Then prepare a case  and argue..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #646 - June 18, 2010, 03:04 AM

    No thanks.

    fuck you
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #647 - June 18, 2010, 06:59 AM

    Yes, the heavily armed Israeli commandos were abseiling from helicopters so that they could have a nice chat with the boat's crew, then after that they would have left and let the ship go on its way.



    No but they weren't expecting any resistance or trouble, otherwise they wouldn't have abseiled the way they did.  They wouldn't have been armed with rifles either if going on a boat to storm it.  Rifles are a bit unwieldy in close quarters.

    Now, I'm no expert in maritime customs, but it seems to me that the only reason anyone with guns would board your ship without permission is to seize control of it by force.


    No navies can stop suspicious ships and send armed personnel on board to search them.  It still does not justify attacking the soldiers.  If they were truly peaceful they would have recorded the incident, complied the acceptable orders and then taken the IDF to court.  With a backer like Erdogan, the case would have been far more significant.

    Gaza's waters are not Israel's.


    1.  Hamas has a charter that calls for the destruction and dismantling of the Jewish state and therefore that is a declaration of war on state that is officially recognised.

    2.  Does Gaza have any recognised territorial waters?

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #648 - June 18, 2010, 08:50 PM

     
    No but they weren't expecting any resistance or trouble, otherwise they wouldn't have abseiled the way they did.  They wouldn't have been armed with rifles either if going on a boat to storm it.  Rifles are a bit unwieldy in close quarters.

    No navies can stop suspicious ships and send armed personnel on board to search them.  It still does not justify attacking the soldiers.  If they were truly peaceful they would have recorded the incident, complied the acceptable orders and then taken the IDF to court.  With a backer like Erdogan, the case would have been far more significant.

    1.  Hamas has a charter that calls for the destruction and dismantling of the Jewish state and therefore that is a declaration of war on state that is officially recognised.

    2.  Does Gaza have any recognised territorial waters?

    No..no. All waters on earth is from Allah, hence by default they are owned by Muslims and their rulers. if non-Muslims don't know they better check Quran/hadith and sunnah. And if they cannot understand that they better go to Tariq Ramadhan  or Zakir Naik or Yusuf al-Qaradawi.

    Any way,  let me tell you guys a story of ANOTHER TURKISH FLOTILLA of 1974.

    This Turkish FLOTILLA has been sent by Turkey and its Islamic Rulers to Cyprus    by its Turkish Armed Forces with the code  name Atilla Harekâtı (Operation Atilla), and was launched on 20 July 1974.  The Turkish invasion took place in two stages and ended in August 1974, when Turkish troops occupied ~40% of the island's territory, which was followed by the establishment of the de facto Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) that only Turkey recognizes, in contradiction of the terms of the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee. Interestingly Both the United States and NATO supported  the Turkish military intervention.

    Lucky Juice., USA and NATO didn't send to protect that flotilla  ship clsoe to Israel on May 30th of this year.  The invasion came after intercommunal conflict  between the island's Greek Cypriot majority and Turkish Cypriot minority, resulting from the constitutional breakdown of 1963. In other words it was Christian/Muslim communal conflict.

     Turkey claims that she invoked her role as a guarantor under the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee in justification for it. The constitutional breakdown of 1963 and 1964, the Turkish invasion of 1974, the displacement of 180,000 Greek Cypriots from the occupied areas  and the establishment of the self-declared Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus in 1983, form the core issues surrounding the Cyprus dispute. you can read all that at wiki.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus

    Later, after Greek Cypriot resistance had been crushed in the north of the island, Turkish forces began to ethnically cleanse almost half of the island from its Greek population, The Turkish military employed hundreds of U.S. tanks and airplanes and 35,000 ground troops, with the result being a land grab by Turkey of 37.3% of Cyprus. Turkey later sent additional flotillas to the island; ships containing 150,00 Turkish settlers who proceeded to colonize the land after some 200,000 Greeks had been driven out and made into refugees.

    But.. you talk about Armenian genocide or the present Kurdish problem Muslim Turks will act like as if some one put the heat under their ass. According to these turkeys One should not expose Turks and their Islamic quest ., but they can make a propaganda out of 10 Muslim robots who got killed because they went to fight IDF at 4 am on that ship. THAT IS A GENOCIDE ..ISRAEL SHOULD BE PUNISHED., 100s of thousands of Armenians butchered by turks ., that is not genocide, that is for Allah.. 

    fucking idiots....

    Any ways, So the present turkey and ITS ISLAMIC RULERS may have thought to start that good old Ottoman Turkish empire and Caliphate with this Gaza Flotilla. Unfortunately DAMN JUICE are making trouble so they better think twice 

    Interesting to see how this century will end the conflicts that come out religious jingoism..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #649 - June 18, 2010, 09:13 PM

    Oh and Saathiya, did you see my reply to your post? care to respond? if not, could you please from now on (when you quote me and address me directly) tell me in advance that you're not gonna reply to my replies?
    Thanks Smiley


    Is it me or do you sound a bit anal?

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #650 - June 18, 2010, 09:26 PM

    Is it me or do you sound a bit anal?

    Wow what a rich classy response  Afro

    I'm pretty sure it's just you.   whistling2
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #651 - June 18, 2010, 09:44 PM

    Since when did Israel have legal jurisdiction over international waters?

    If an American policeman pulls me over in the middle of fucking Uganda you bet I will more than beat him up. I'll cut that bitch.

    I know that you are trolling but still - try reading the bolded bits in case TL;DR

    CAN ISRAEL IMPOSE A NAVAL BLOCKADE ON GAZA?

    Yes it can, according to the law of blockade which was derived from customary international law and codified in the 1909 Declaration of London. It was updated in 1994 in a legally recognised document called the "San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea".


    Under some of the key rules, a blockade must be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral states, access to neutral ports cannot be blocked, and an area can only be blockaded which is under enemy control.

    "On the basis that Hamas is the ruling entity of Gaza and Israel is in the midst of an armed struggle against that ruling entity, the blockade is legal," said Philip Roche, partner in the shipping disputes and risk management team with law firm Norton Rose.


    WHAT ARE INTERNATIONAL WATERS?

    Under the U.N. Convention of the Law of the Sea a coastal state has a "territorial sea" of 12 nautical miles from the coast over which it is sovereign. Ships of other states are allowed "innocent passage" through such waters.

    There is a further 12 nautical mile zone called the "contiguous zone" over which a state may take action to protect itself or its laws.

    "However, strictly beyond the 12 nautical miles limit the seas are the "high seas" or international waters," Roche said.

    The Israeli navy said on Monday the Gaza bound flotilla was intercepted 120 km (75 miles) west of Israel. The Turkish captain of one of the vessels told an Istanbul news conference after returning home from Israeli detention they were 68 miles outside Israeli territorial waters.

    Under the law of a blockade, intercepting a vessel could apply globally so long as a ship is bound for a "belligerent" territory, legal experts say.


    CAN ISRAEL USE FORCE WHEN INTERCEPTING SHIPS?

    Under international law it can use force when boarding a ship.

    "If force is disproportionate it would be a violation of the key tenets of the use of force," said Commander James Kraska, professor of international law at the U.S. Naval War College.

    Israeli authorities said marines who boarded the Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara opened fire in self-defence after activists clubbed and stabbed them and snatched some of their weapons.

    Legal experts say proportional force does not mean that guns cannot be used by forces when being attacked with knives.

    "But there has got to be a relationship between the threat and response," Kraska said.

    The use of force may also have other repercussions.

    "While the full facts need to emerge from a credible and transparent investigation, from what is known now, it appears that Israel acted within its legal rights," said J. Peter Pham, a strategic adviser to U.S. and European governments.

    "However, not every operation that the law permits is necessarily prudent from the strategic point of view."


    OPPONENTS HAVE CALLED ISRAEL'S RAID "PIRACY". WAS IT?


    No, as under international law it was considered a state action.

    "Whether what Israel did is right or wrong, it is not an act of piracy. Piracy deals with private conduct particularly with a pecuniary or financial interest," Kraska said.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #652 - June 18, 2010, 09:57 PM

    Forget the Indians.  Indians have their own reservations, casino money, their own laws, free education...i mean damn if that's not throwing them a bone I dont know what is.
    I skimmed over some of these pages and it seems Ygalg answered  the questions.
    Look, if the Israelis were Sunni's and the Palestinians were Shiites there would be no so called "occupation" ofcourse there would still be a lot of bloodshed because Sunni's and Shiites hate each other but they are bonded in their hatred for us infidels especially the jews.  It doesnt matter where the Jews live, Muslims will always hate them, always blame them for their troubles.
    I know you dont like Ali Sina but this is a great article please have a read even though it's long and tell me what you think:
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/debates/a-debate-with-a-palestinian-over-israel/

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #653 - June 18, 2010, 10:07 PM

    This is also a good vid:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4lspU3_RXM

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #654 - June 18, 2010, 10:38 PM

    Thank you for that Ali Sina debate link  http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/debates/a-debate-with-a-palestinian-over-israel/5/    dear Saathiya., That guy is relentless and quite often he is right.

    before this tube Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzsCBFhCsyY  and before reading hadith and Quran, I was fully supporting Palestinians and was skeptic the way Israeli politicians were dealing with   this this freedom to Palestinian people.

    but after watching the tube and 100s of Islamic tubes .. reading Quran, sunnah, hadith and after going through year by year Islamic History   http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15311   and life of Muhammad..   I realized Islam is indeed not a religion but a CULT. A cult that freely allows a child to brain wash and never allows any one to question it.

    Anyways  again thank you  for that   Ali Sina debate  with a Palestinian over Israel

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #655 - June 18, 2010, 10:41 PM

    I think Pallywood is better than Bollywood. Roll Eyes

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #656 - June 19, 2010, 01:03 AM

    Forget the Indians.  Indians have their own reservations, casino money, their own laws, free education...i mean damn if that's not throwing them a bone I dont know what is.

    How generous of you !!
    So does that make the annihilation ad subjugation of Native Americans justified? what kind of logic is that?


    It doesnt matter where the Jews live, Muslims will always hate them, always blame them for their troubles.

    Yeah tell that to the Jews who fled Isabella's Spain to the Ottoman Empire and Morocco. Tell that to the Jews of Baghdad who were living in safety while their brethren in Europe were subjected to unimaginable discrimination, pogroms, and the HOLOCAUST.
    Jews have always been subjected to injustices and oppression in every part of the world including Arab and Muslim lands. But the truth that you can't deny is that before the Establishment of the State of Israel and preceding mass emigration of Jews that was imposed by British colonialism, Jews were better off in Muslim lands than in many parts of the Christendom.
    It was only in the late 30s that anti-Semitism in the Arab world became rampant. So if we were living at the time one could've easily said "It doesnt matter where the Jews live, Christians will always hate them, always blame them for their troubles."

    I'm sorry Saathiya. You're cool and funny and I like having you around this forum but your statement indicates that you have very limited knowledge on the issue.

    BTW, nice going on ignoring the other points in my post. (forgive me for being so *anal*).

    Take care.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #657 - June 19, 2010, 01:11 AM

    What now you're not gonna be my friend anymore?

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #658 - June 19, 2010, 01:12 AM

    Did you even read Ali Sina debate?

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #659 - June 19, 2010, 01:18 AM

    How generous of you !!
    So does that make the annihilation ad subjugation of Native Americans justified? what kind of logic is that?

    That's probably more than any muslim country would ever do to the people it subjugated!  Where would you want me to start on this....Jews, Christians, Zorastrains, Buddhists, Egyptians, Hindus, African Tribes, Sikhs, Chinese?

    No amount of money will ever bring anything back but look how most Islamic countries LEGALLY treat the minorities they dont even get equal treatment and you compare them to the Native Americans?  I hardly think that's a fair assessment.

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
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