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 Topic: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships

 (Read 107771 times)
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  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #750 - July 02, 2010, 07:21 PM

    rass111.. i know firsthand THEY ARE!!!    And I know not all kurds like or agree with their methods.
    I dont hae a problem with kurds, just the pkk that were in the area where i was, and what i saw,
    and experienced was HORRIBLE!!

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #751 - July 02, 2010, 07:29 PM

    Well  I don't know their names but according to several sources two Kurdish villages in Hasankeyf districts were destroyed after talks failed.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #752 - July 02, 2010, 07:32 PM

    Because just as so many Palestinians had to surrender their property against their will to make way for the Jewish State, I thought we might have moved on in 60 years, such that this time (in the case of establishing the Roma Gypsy State) the surrendering of property should be voluntary, and be done by the people who actually believe this state should be established. So step forward and put you money (or property) where your mouth is.


    Nah you did not understand me, I was proposing forming an autonomous region (not a state) where they are concentrated.  The problem with the Palestinians was that they were advised to move out by the Arab governments who failed to win the war.  Besides the Palestinians don't travel around like the Gypsies so one cannot compare accurately.  What's with the attitude?  I don't agree with much of what Israel does and I want to see the Palestinians get their own state over there.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #753 - July 02, 2010, 07:32 PM

    rass111.. i know firsthand THEY ARE!!!    And I know not all kurds like or agree with their methods.
    I dont hae a problem with kurds, just the pkk that were in the area where i was, and what i saw,
    and experienced was HORRIBLE!!


    You're Turkish then?

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #754 - July 02, 2010, 07:39 PM

    no (i do have turkish ancestry, but that goes waaaaay back)

    but i did witness the devistation, and worked at the local orphanage
    there. sooooo over crowded, it was unbelievable!

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #755 - July 02, 2010, 07:44 PM

    Because just as so many Palestinians had to surrender their property against their will to make way for the Jewish State, I thought we might have moved on in 60 years, such that this time (in the case of establishing the Roma Gypsy State) the surrendering of property should be voluntary, and be done by the people who actually believe this state should be established. So step forward and put you money (or property) where your mouth is.


    Forgot to add..  besides my proposal does not have to end up like the Palestinian situation, which I think should not have happened either.  I am not calling for ethnic cleansing and the giving up of property to form a new state..  There is a difference.   Anta Falasteen?

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #756 - July 02, 2010, 08:11 PM

    so what if they do, boo?  does that justify HATING THEM? 
    Thats hardly reason to be a zenophobic .  Like i said,
    the puppet masters dictate who to hate to their sheeple.
    The only thing this vehement hatred is doing, boo, is hurting
    YOU. 
    I have to cmmend a people as a whole, who have been hated, killed by
    the millions, rallied  in camps, starving to death, can bounce back and achieve
    so much.  I thought zenophobia was a no no in this forum.


    They also eat babies and can shapeshift

    ^ The idea is to show that all prejudice is absurd and a type of delusion
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #757 - July 02, 2010, 08:57 PM

    Hasn't stopped him from cracking down on their parties with the excuse that they have links to the PKK.  He might have expanded on what was already there but use of Kurdish in politics is still taboo and anything the Kurds say in Kurdish is closely observed by the government.  He probably just gave them a few concessions to gain their support and counter the Kemalists better.  He has also raised Kurdish villages to the ground so that the inhabitants would not return..

    I don't know. I spoke with Iranian and Iraqi Kurds and they told me this. They're quite secular themselves but they praised Erdogan. I'll have to check with them and get back to you.


    The PKK are a nasty organisation but not all Kurds support them.

    I don't agree with their methods but I very much support their goals. They're not that different from the KDP or PUK. They're all Kurdish Nationalist Parties. The KDP and the PUK also did their fare share of armed struggle in Iraq until they achieved autonomy. Anyway, I just hope I live long enough to see the day Kurdistan gains independence.  Afro
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #758 - July 02, 2010, 09:05 PM

    Don't generalise. Not only is it wrong in principle, but in practice, we can see Jews using violence in the name of Judaism, and so your statement is total bull.


    I dont make excuses for Judaism because I do believe it was that religion or that culture that started this whole, "we are God's Chosen" or the whole, "us verse them" mentality.  I do however believe generally they have grown beyond religious dogma.  Ofcourse people will always use some tool to justify their actions, be it religion or some other bullshit ideology.  


    When you clearly know nothing about a subject, it is better to either keep quiet, or refrain from making statements and instead focus on asking questions. If you have this basic rule, you won't make such of a fool of yourself by making such ignorant statements and you have just done.


    I dont know why you're being an ass and I dont really give a damn, it's your problem not mine.  You've got shit going on, fine, take it out on someone else.  You dont like what I say, dont comment on it, it's that simple. If i've made errors, then you can correct me.  I am not the type of person who is so stubborn that only my way is the right way.  We are all here to learn from each other and criticize each other's OPINIONS.

    http://travelgreenisrael.com/100-years-of-green/
    One hundred years ago, the land of Israel was an ecological disaster. Four centuries of Ottoman rule had seen millions of trees cut down....
    Then, in 1910, the first kibbutz was founded on the shore of the Sea of Galilee, giving a practical boost to the dream of making the desert bloom.
    Israel is now a land of forests and pastures, not of barren wilderness.


    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=reclamation-of-man-made-desert
    They came to a land of encroaching sand dunes along a once-verdant coast, of malarial swamps and naked limestone hills from which an estimated three feet of topsoil had been scoured, sorted and spread as sterile overwash upon the plains or swept out to sea...
    Israel is a pilot area for the arid lands of the world, especially those of her Arab neighbors, who persist in their destitution in the same landscape that Israel has brought into blossom.

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #759 - July 02, 2010, 09:08 PM

    I don't know. I spoke with Iranian and Iraqi Kurds and they told me this. They're quite secular themselves but they praised Erdogan. I'll have to check with them and get back to you.

    I don't agree with their methods but I very much support their goals. They're not that different from the KDP or PUK. They're all Kurdish Nationalist Parties. The KDP and the PUK also did their fare share of armed struggle in Iraq until they achieved autonomy. Anyway, I just hope I live long enough to see the day Kurdistan gains independence.  Afro



    Depends when you spoke to them...

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #760 - July 02, 2010, 09:12 PM

    I have Iranian friends and they are really secular.  More secular than the Indian muslims.

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #761 - July 02, 2010, 09:18 PM

    Depends when you spoke to them...

    Early 09.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #762 - July 02, 2010, 09:33 PM

    I don't agree with their methods but I very much support their goals. They're not that different from the KDP or PUK. They're all Kurdish Nationalist Parties. The KDP and the PUK also did their fare share of armed struggle in Iraq until they achieved autonomy. Anyway, I just hope I live long enough to see the day Kurdistan gains independence.  Afro


    IA... so do I.  I understand how the kurdish people throughout the region has suffered atrocities.  I too would like
    to see them have their own "kurdistan".  And like you, I abhore the methodologies of the PKK

    I hate war anyway.  and i dont show favoritism to anyone.  EVERYONE guilty of torturing, killing, maiming,
    raping, and terrorizing INNOCENTS are fucked up in my book and deserve to be shot, themselves.
    Theres no clear cut lines of black and white in war.  Only many shades of gray.  

    I wish everyone could all just get along  Cry  

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #763 - July 02, 2010, 09:38 PM

    Well  I don't know their names but according to several sources two Kurdish villages in Hasankeyf districts were destroyed after talks failed.


    What are the sources? (I am not on the offensive, I honestly don't know enough about the situation)
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #764 - July 02, 2010, 09:44 PM

    I wish everyone could all just get along  Cry  

    LOL. It's a great attitude but it doesn't work like that in the real world  Wink
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #765 - July 02, 2010, 09:49 PM

    I realize that IA...  I just cant wrap my head around all this intense hatred
    and violence :(  And that goes for everywhere, even here in the USA.  I just
    dont get it!    finmad  I have wondered throughout the years if maybe
    i am from another planet b/c i just cant comprihend any of it lol.

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #766 - July 02, 2010, 09:52 PM

    Nah you did not understand me, I was proposing forming an autonomous region (not a state) where they are concentrated.


    Why not a state? Why Jews are the exception? And where is this autonomous region going to be?

    Quote from: ras
    The problem with the Palestinians was that they were advised to move out by the Arab governments who failed to win the war.


    So why should they be eternally punished for the commands of Arab governments?

    Quote from: ras
    Besides the Palestinians don't travel around like the Gypsies so one cannot compare accurately.


    The comparison is Jews and Roma Gypsies. And most Roma are now settled.

     
    Quote from: ras
    What's with the attitude?  I don't agree with much of what Israel does and I want to see the Palestinians get their own state over there.


    But if you believe Israel should have been created, then you accept all the crap that entailed
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #767 - July 02, 2010, 09:53 PM

    What are the sources? (I am not on the offensive, I honestly don't know enough about the situation)


    http://en.firatnews.com/index.php?rupel=article&nuceID=448

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #768 - July 02, 2010, 09:57 PM

    Why not a state? Why Jews are the exception? And where is this autonomous region going to be?


    Because we already saw what that led to and the troubles it caused.


    So why should they be eternally punished for the commands of Arab governments?


    They took the risk and it turned out to be bad for them, simple.  Life is like that.  The Jews who went back to Poland also risked it and ended up badly

    The comparison is Jews and Roma Gypsies. And most Roma are now settled.


    Then having limited self rule would be easier, although that could have its own disadvantages

    But if you believe Israel should have been created, then you accept all the crap that entailed


    No I said that an Israeli state should exist, I did not mention where the borders should be and what territory it should have.


    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #769 - July 02, 2010, 10:07 PM

    Forgot to add..  besides my proposal does not have to end up like the Palestinian situation, which I think should not have happened either.  I am not calling for ethnic cleansing and the giving up of property to form a new state..  There is a difference.


    Problem is, the ethnic cleansing, the property theft was inevitable for the creation of the Israeli state. If you support the creation of Israel you have to support the ethnic cleansing and theft of property

    Quote from: ras
      Anta Falasteen?


    Laa
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #770 - July 02, 2010, 10:13 PM

    Problem is, the ethnic cleansing, the property theft was inevitable for the creation of the Israeli state. If you support the creation of Israel you have to support the ethnic cleansing and theft of property


    Not necessarily even when the Zionist movement was its initial stages, Hertzl didn't call for a Jewish only state...  Lets also not forget the that the Palestinians over there were not that peaceful towards the Jews either.  There was significant antisemitism as well..  I need only mention Imam al Husseini.  

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #771 - July 03, 2010, 12:41 AM

    Because we already saw what that led to and the troubles it caused.


    So you agree that Israel shouldn't have been established?

    Quote from: ras
    They took the risk and it turned out to be bad for them, simple.  Life is like that.  The Jews who went back to Poland also risked it and ended up badly


    Rather a callous attitude. Should civilians be so brutally punished during war?
    Do Palestinians not deserve a return of their property and a right to return to their homes (if they wish), just as Jews did in post-Holocaust Europe?

    Quote from: ras
    Then having limited self rule would be easier, although that could have its own disadvantages


    So no Jewish state?

    Quote from: ras
    No I said that an Israeli state should exist, I did not mention where the borders should be and what territory it should have.


    Still unclear why Jews deserve a state, but Roma don't.

    So where should have the borders been? Where should the territory have been?
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #772 - July 03, 2010, 12:49 AM

    Not necessarily even when the Zionist movement was its initial stages, Hertzl didn't call for a Jewish only state...  


    Am a bit unsure why the views of a man who was dead by the turn of the century (1900) really has a huge amount to do with events of the 1940s. The Zionist Movement promoted a Jewish State, which was inevitably going to have to be overwhealmingly Jewish in demographics in order to preserve its Jewish character. How else was this to be achieved without ethnic cleansing.

    Quote from: ras
    Lets also not forget the that the Palestinians over there were not that peaceful towards the Jews either.  There was significant antisemitism as well..  I need only mention Imam al Husseini. 


    Bit stupid to establish a state there then.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #773 - July 03, 2010, 12:51 AM



    And the details and context of these villages' destruction. Military assault? Dam Construction? Ethnic cleansing?
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #774 - July 03, 2010, 01:08 AM

    I dont make excuses for Judaism because I do believe it was that religion or that culture that started this whole, "we are God's Chosen" or the whole, "us verse them" mentality.  I do however believe generally they have grown beyond religious dogma.


    Then you are totally unaware of the settler movement and whole swathes of political opinion within Israel. Again, showing how little you know of the situation.

    Quote from: Saathiya
    Ofcourse people will always use some tool to justify their actions, be it religion or some other bullshit ideology.  


    But so many within the settler movement (not all) do what they do because of their dogmatic religious beliefs. It's not about their beliefs being used to justify their actions, but their beliefs motivating their actions.


    Quote from: Saathiya
    I dont know why you're being an ass and I dont really give a damn, it's your problem not mine.  You've got shit going on, fine, take it out on someone else.


    A combination of being in a bad mood and you making idiotic statements.

    Quote from: Saathiya
    You dont like what I say, dont comment on it, it's that simple.


    No I don't like what you say, and I feel obliged to point out the fallacies in your arguments. It's called real life.

    Quote from: Saathiya
    If i've made errors, then you can correct me.  I am not the type of person who is so stubborn that only my way is the right way.  We are all here to learn from each other and criticize each other's OPINIONS.


    Quote from: Saathiya
    http://travelgreenisrael.com/100-years-of-green/
    One hundred years ago, the land of Israel was an ecological disaster. Four centuries of Ottoman rule had seen millions of trees cut down....
    Then, in 1910, the first kibbutz was founded on the shore of the Sea of Galilee, giving a practical boost to the dream of making the desert bloom.
    Israel is now a land of forests and pastures, not of barren wilderness.


    A rather romantised account for the purpose of promoting tourism and selling holidays. Hardly scientific.

    Quote from: Saathiya
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=reclamation-of-man-made-desert
    They came to a land of encroaching sand dunes along a once-verdant coast, of malarial swamps and naked limestone hills from which an estimated three feet of topsoil had been scoured, sorted and spread as sterile overwash upon the plains or swept out to sea...
    Israel is a pilot area for the arid lands of the world, especially those of her Arab neighbors, who persist in their destitution in the same landscape that Israel has brought into blossom.


    Seems to be a lot of poetic licence going on here.

    If you really believe that the place was a barren wasteland, then you clearly have no idea about the region.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #775 - July 03, 2010, 03:07 PM

    'Obama warns Erdogan international Gaza flotilla probe bad for Turkey'  says news..

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/obama-warns-erdogan-international-gaza-flotilla-probe-bad-for-turkey-1.299783?localLinksEnabled=false

     
    Quote
    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Following the Israeli Navy commandos' raid in May in which nine Turkish activists were killed Turkey has demanded international probe.  United States President Barak Obama warned Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan that an international probe into Israel's deadly raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla could have negative consequences for Turkey, British Arabic-language daily al-Hayat reported Saturday.

    According to the report, Obama warned Erdogan that the international probe which Turkey has demanded could turn into a "double edged sword," as it could lead to accusations against the passengers on board the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara ship, some of whom were members of the pro-Palestinian IHH organization.  

    Goooooooood.,   Erdogan better learn to act as leader of a  respectable nation  INSTEAD OF LEADER FOR ISLAM AND MUSLIMS..

    Read it all at the link..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #776 - July 03, 2010, 04:59 PM

    Noooo!! I want them to do a full investigation!! Why would obama try to disuade them???
    Something is really fucked up here.   finmad

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #777 - July 03, 2010, 05:12 PM

    Noooo!! I want them to do a full investigation!! Why would obama try to disuade them???
    Something is really fucked up here.   finmad


    Because other navies do this shit too and if this is investigated, others will be as well.  Also Turkey has a lot of skeletons in its closet.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #778 - July 03, 2010, 05:14 PM

    So does obama.. lets put all the shit on the table and move on lol.
    AGAIN, an example of puppet masters misleading the sheeple to
    their own advantage and for their own gan.   finmad

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #779 - July 03, 2010, 05:17 PM

    So does obama.. lets put all the shit on the table and move on lol.


    If only it were that simple...

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
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