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 Topic: One argument to disprove the Quran

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  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     OP - June 01, 2010, 11:29 AM
    If you had to argue that the Quran was not the word of God, and to do it you could quote only a single sentence (can be many verses if it continues with "and...", or many sentences if they are one verse) which would it be?

    My first choice might be 39:6
    He created you (all) from a single person: then created, of like nature, his mate

    This clearly contradicts evolution, but then you'd have to prove evolution. Although that's easy (just use endogenous retroviruses) it's not easy to get someone to accept it.


    So my next choice would coincidentally be the verse before it, 39:5
    He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law), each one follows a course for a time appointed.

    The Moon is only of service due to its orbit of the Earth so that months may be counted; but this says Allah subjugated "the Sun and Moon".  The coming of days/nights, the Sun following a course of a specific period of time, and the SUN AND Moon being subjugated is just a perfect description of a misconception that everything in the universe orbits the Earth - none of it makes sense in the true model of the universe.


    I'm curious, what would be your one-liner?
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: One sentence to disprove the Quran
     Reply #1 - June 01, 2010, 11:59 AM
    21:31: And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.

    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Quake_epicenters_1963-98.png

    Cheesy Cheesy
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
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  • Re: One sentence to disprove the Quran
     Reply #2 - June 01, 2010, 12:25 PM
    Aziz please explain, not sure what you mean?
  • Re: One sentence to disprove the Quran
     Reply #3 - June 01, 2010, 12:30 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on June 01, 2010, 12:25 PM
    Aziz please explain, not sure what you mean?


    The Quran says that mountains were set on the Earth to stop it from shaking.  However, mountains are a result of tectonic plates rubbing together and violently pushing rock up into the air.  The friction between tectonic plates causes earthquakes, so your chances of experiencing an earthquake is actually higher when near a mountain because you are guaranteed to be near a tectonic fault.

    In "real life" I suspect the Quran is saying that the Earth is a sheet that has been spread out, and the mountains are pegs to stick it down and make it firm Smiley
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: One sentence to disprove the Quran
     Reply #4 - June 01, 2010, 12:40 PM
    ^ Yep. Wink
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
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  • Re: One sentence to disprove the Quran
     Reply #5 - June 01, 2010, 12:41 PM
    Sorry one more question what does that link mean? Epicenters?
  • Re: One sentence to disprove the Quran
     Reply #6 - June 01, 2010, 12:46 PM
    4:34 for me without a doubt.  

    I find it hard to believe the creator would grant license to the more powerful male member of the species to beat the female species yet not the other way around.  I he would do this by putting it in the holy book, yet not mention once that we should specifically help disabled people.

    Which beings me to another point thats rarely mentioned on here.  The Quran should be judged not only by the things it does say, but by the things it also failed to say.
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  • Re: One sentence to disprove the Quran
     Reply #7 - June 01, 2010, 12:47 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on June 01, 2010, 12:41 PM
    Sorry one more question what does that link mean? Epicenters?


    The point on the earth’s surface vertically above the focus of an earthquake.  Where you find fault lines travelling in opposite directions you should find mountains.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: One sentence to disprove the Quran
     Reply #8 - June 01, 2010, 01:00 PM
    I always had a problem with this one:

    Sura Taha (20:53)

        Who has made earth for you like a bed (spread out); and has opened roads (ways and paths etc.) for you therein; and has sent down water (rain) from the sky. And We have brought forth with it various kinds of vegetation.

    But I'm not sure.  Why would you write the Earth is flat like a carpet or a bed? What's the point?

    I've heard its a metaphor and also that it means God made the Earth comfortable to walk on?
  • Re: One sentence to disprove the Quran
     Reply #9 - June 01, 2010, 05:10 PM
    I like 2:2.

    Quote
    Sahih International
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah

    Pickthall
    This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).

    Yusuf Ali
    This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;


    But this is wrong because there are a number of disagreements about what the Quran actually means.
    In other words there IS doubt, so 2:2 is false. Since 2:2 is false, the Quran is false.

    I also like the fact that it's right at the beginning. It's basically the first factual statement the Quran makes - and it's demonstrably wrong.
    Bukhari 62:142 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:
       The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.
  • Re: One sentence to disprove the Quran
     Reply #10 - June 01, 2010, 05:23 PM
    Just a sentence? So I can't use this one then?


    [33:53]
    O you who believe, do not enter the Prophet’s houses unless permission is granted you to [share] a meal without waiting for the
    moment. But when you are invited, enter, and, when you have had your meal, disperse, without any [leisurely] conversation. Indeed that is upsetting for the Prophet, and he is [too] shy of you, but God is not shy of the truth. And when you ask anything of [his] womenfolk, ask them from behind a screen. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And you should never cause the Messenger of God hurt; nor ever marry his wives after him. Assuredly that in God’s sight would be very grave.[/i]

    Oh-hahaha

    But...

    23:5-6 and 70:29-30 (They're exactly the same)

    and who guard their private parts, except from their spouses, and what [slaves] their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy.

  • Re: One sentence to disprove the Quran
     Reply #11 - June 01, 2010, 05:25 PM
    And I have absolutely no idea as to why my post is looking like that.  I must have offended Allah, which can only be a good thing  Afro
  • Re: One sentence to disprove the Quran
     Reply #12 - June 01, 2010, 06:49 PM
    Quote
    036.036
    YUSUFALI: Glory to Allah, Who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as their own (human) kind and (other) things of which they have no knowledge.


    All that the earth produces is not created in pairs. There are asexual plants as well as animals, such as the whiptail lizard. There are all-female species of whiptails that procreate via parthenogenesis, meaning that do not require their eggs to be fertilized.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis

    Many "miraculous" virgin births happening today.  Roll Eyes

    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: One sentence to disprove the Quran
     Reply #13 - June 01, 2010, 07:10 PM
    Quote from: TheLastKnight on June 01, 2010, 05:10 PM
    Sahih International
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah

    Pickthall
    This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).

    Yusuf Ali
    This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

    lol - they cant even agree on the supposedly clear verses
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  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #14 - June 01, 2010, 07:22 PM
    25:61
    Tabaraka allathee jaAAala fee alssama-i buroojan wajaAAala feeha sirajan waqamaran muneeran

    Literal:  Blessed (is) who made/put in the sky/space constellations and He made/put in it a lamp (light) and a luminous moon .

    Quote
    Blessed is He Who made the constellations in the heavens and made therein a lamp and a shining moon


    71:15-16

    Quote
    "'See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, and made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp


    These verses say that the moon shines, or gives light, or is luminous, which are all wrong.

    The moon is a giant rock that reflects the sun's light. A luminous body is one that emits light waves, an example of which would be... the sun. To call the moon a luminous body would be wrong.

    The second verse says that the sun is created as a lamp, and the moon as a light. 1 out of 2 ain't so bad, but unfortunately there goes the Quran's claim of perfection. Enter the word "reflected". The moon's light is reflected light. Ah, of course. It's obvious. Exactly which word means reflected in this verse? And if God meant reflected light, then why not just say "the sun is a light and the moon reflects the sun's light"? Too difficult?
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #15 - June 01, 2010, 07:25 PM
    Also, all them "God says "Be" and it bees" verses  Roll Eyes. With a snap of his finger God evolves the Earth. What omnipotence!
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #16 - June 04, 2010, 08:21 AM
    Bumpity.
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #17 - June 04, 2010, 08:43 AM
    Love your avatar btw did you make it?
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #18 - June 04, 2010, 02:41 PM
    Nope. Wish I had though lol
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #19 - June 04, 2010, 04:18 PM
    I'm on a mobile, so I can't look it up, but my personal favorite is the one about where allah asks the earth and then the mountains if they want free will, and they say no, but then humans say yes, because they are stupid...

    It is probably the best line in the whole thing, because it is so dense with so many different logical contradictions, absurd naturalistic misunderstandings, and narrative confusions packed into one sentence

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #20 - June 04, 2010, 04:48 PM
     Cheesy
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  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #21 - June 08, 2010, 02:20 PM
    Quote from: Homer on June 04, 2010, 04:18 PM
    I'm on a mobile, so I can't look it up, but my personal favorite is the one about where allah asks the earth and then the mountains if they want free will, and they say no, but then humans say yes, because they are stupid...


    What verse is this? I would like to look it up.  Smiley
    Bukhari 62:142 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:
       The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #22 - June 08, 2010, 02:37 PM
    33:72 We did indeed offer the Trust to the Heavens and the Earth and the Mountains: but they refused to undertake it, being afraid thereof: but man undertook it― he was indeed unjust and foolish

    I am officially not as clever as a mountain.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #23 - June 08, 2010, 03:26 PM
    Obvious ridiculousness aside, how can they reject free will from their own desire if they have no free will to begin with?
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #24 - June 08, 2010, 03:28 PM
    Quote from: Angel54 on June 08, 2010, 03:26 PM
    Obvious ridiculousness aside, how can they reject free will from their own desire if they have no free will to begin with?


    Is that what is meant by "The Trust"?
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #25 - June 08, 2010, 03:54 PM
    Thats whats generally believed, although Jalalayn doesnt mention it specifically:

    Quote
    Tafsir al-Jalalayn
    Indeed We offered the Trust — [the obligation to] prayer and other matters which, when performed, result in reward and when neglected, result in punishment — to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and created in them the power of comprehension and speech [at the time of that offer], but they refused to bear it and were apprehensive of it; but man, Adam, undertook it, when it was offered to him. Truly he is a wrongdoer, to his own soul because of what he undertook, ignorant, of [the responsibility that comes with] it —


    This site also says that they were offered other powers and stuff, which would either include free will or require that they have free will to make the decision in the first place. http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=2138&region=E1&CR=
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #26 - June 08, 2010, 05:06 PM
    lol Thinking Mountains. Add this the talking rocks and the crying trees ROFL

    Tolkien was Mohammad in a previous life  Cheesy Cheesy
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #27 - June 08, 2010, 05:08 PM
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=10582.msg280786#msg280786

     dance
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #28 - June 12, 2010, 06:56 PM
    Quote from: Yusuf Ali's translation - 16:93
    If God so willed, He could make you all one people: but He leaves straying whom He pleases, and He guides whom He pleases: but ye shall certainly be called to account for all your actions.

    A "just" god wouldn't hold us responsible for his actions.
    You need to read this book.
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #29 - June 12, 2010, 11:50 PM
    Quote from: Godot on June 12, 2010, 06:56 PM
    A "just" god wouldn't hold us responsible for his actions.


    Yusuf Ali's translation is BS.

    [16:93]
    For if God had willed, He could have made you one community, but He leads astray whom He will and guides whom He will, and you will surely be questioned about what you used to do.

    There's a serious chicken and egg problem with this. Does Allah's willing people to go astray come first or does the person's choosing to go astray come first?

    If the person exercises a choice to disbelieve, is that their fault or is it the fault of pre-determined circumstances over which they had no control?
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