Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
Yesterday at 01:25 PM

News From Syria
December 10, 2024, 09:35 AM

New Britain
December 08, 2024, 10:30 AM

Lights on the way
by akay
December 07, 2024, 09:26 AM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
December 06, 2024, 01:27 PM

Ashes to beads: South Kor...
December 03, 2024, 09:44 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
November 30, 2024, 08:53 AM

Gaza assault
by zeca
November 27, 2024, 07:13 PM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
November 24, 2024, 06:05 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
November 19, 2024, 11:36 PM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: One argument to disprove the Quran

 (Read 32566 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #60 - June 20, 2010, 12:21 AM

    I consider every single ayat  that needs explaining..as in a Muslim will say...you have to know the "context" of that ayat...what was happening at that time and the reason for it etc etc blah blah blah. If it needs explaining then it isnt clear cut..if it isnt clear cut then its confusing...if its confusing then it cant be the word of god...because one of the arguments of the Quran is that its clear and straightforward for anyone willing to see.

    Guess we are ALL blind cause we all require explanations to understand it...even Muslims.  Huh?


    and if none of that works, you dont have enough faih in big Al and its ALL your fault it doesnt make sense.
    (paraphrased from what I had been scolded with--repeatedly)

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #61 - June 20, 2010, 01:10 AM

    Isn't it amazing....that anyone believes this stuff.

    Its something I will never understand.

    Dont forget the internet is still relatively new, and most muslims havent researched it through yet.  Give it a generation to seep into the Muslim conscious, then you will see far more exmuslims.  Of that I am sure.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #62 - June 20, 2010, 01:26 AM

    I think the last bastion for Islam in the West is the Muslim ghettos, where the pressure to conform and the lack of information/influence from the outside means people can't see that they are deluded.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #63 - June 20, 2010, 01:40 AM

    yes

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #64 - December 21, 2010, 01:38 PM

    33:72 We did indeed offer the Trust to the Heavens and the Earth and the Mountains: but they refused to undertake it, being afraid thereof: but man undertook it― he was indeed unjust and foolish


    cant... stop... laughing...
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #65 - December 21, 2010, 01:48 PM

    [2:26]
    God is not ashamed to strike a similitude even of a gnat, or anything above it; as for the believers, they know it is the truth from their Lord; but as for disbelievers, they say, 'What did God desire by this for a similitude?' Thereby, He leads many astray and thereby He guides many; and thereby He leads none astray except the wicked.


    translation: Don't ask too many questions! You're a heretic and evil for doing so! Those who believe in Allah are the ones who through "faith" accept whatever is delivered to them.

    man, Allah is such a bitch.
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #66 - December 21, 2010, 01:55 PM

    that stupid piece of shit verse I can only imagine, can have a psychologically devastating impact on a Muslim who thinks for himself logically and has skepticism of the verses. Causing immense guilt and worry.

    "OMG why is that I don't understand this and it doesn't make any sense? oh Allah please take me as one amongst your party, please do not let me fall into the deluge of infidelity, please shine Nur on me and increase my Iman"

    fuck this
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #67 - December 21, 2010, 02:22 PM

    Actually, the thing that most struck me about the Qur'an when I first read it was how nakedly and unapologetically manipulative and coercive it was. I still don't quite understand how intelligent people can fall for such obvious manipulation, though I suppose masochism and the wish to be a serf plays a role.
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #68 - December 21, 2010, 05:54 PM

    Well, zeb, when being a "slave of allah" is the most exalted state that you can aim for in all of orthodox islam, then you can see why one will be eager to please.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #69 - December 22, 2010, 01:10 AM

    Well, you'd think it'd make people vaguely suspicious when the religion so emphasises the need to be shit-scared of the celestial Big Brother 24-7.

    I have to say, it's positively Orwellian to read Islamic books and to see people openly state that virtue is 'fearing Allah as much as you can.' What the hell has that got to do with morality? Jack shite. But of course, because fear ensures the obedience of the plebs, it necessarily follows that religion pisses in the well of human morality and supplants it with such a completely perverse notion.
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #70 - December 22, 2010, 03:37 AM

    Too bad all these arguments are invalid when arguing Muslims.
    Thanks Zakir Naik, Charlatan of the decade!

    <dust>: i love tea!!!
    <dust>: milky tea
    <three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
    <dust>: mm
    <three>: it's definitely not called neck
    <dust>: lol
    <three>: what's the word i'm looking for
    <dust>: throat
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #71 - December 22, 2010, 04:26 AM

    Well, you'd think it'd make people vaguely suspicious when the religion so emphasises the need to be shit-scared of the celestial Big Brother 24-7.

    I have to say, it's positively Orwellian to read Islamic books and to see people openly state that virtue is 'fearing Allah as much as you can.' What the hell has that got to do with morality? Jack shite. But of course, because fear ensures the obedience of the plebs, it necessarily follows that religion pisses in the well of human morality and supplants it with such a completely perverse notion.


    lol.  This is what I read on an Islamic site today

    Quote
    HORRIFYING PUNISHMENTS OF UNVEILING

    It is said in the Holy Quran: And remain stationed in your houses and be not
    unveiling of the former days of ignorance. Did you see? Quran orders women to
    stay in their homes and not to practice unveiling. And ah, our mothers,
    sisters and burger family.


    HORRIFYING PUNISHMENTS OF UNVEILING

    Hazrat Ali said that once he and Bibi Fatima went to visit the Holy Prophet(Sallallahoalaehewasallam). The Holy Prophet
    (Sallallahoalaehewasallam) was weeping. They inquired the reason that had made the Holy Prophet (Sallallahoalaehewasallam) weep. He replied: "On the night of the Ascension (Mairaj), I saw the punishments being given to some women, today I was remembering those scenes. This is why I am worried". They
    asked, "Please tell us what did you see?" He replied: "I saw a woman hanging by her hair and her brain was boiling. (This was the
    punishment of that woman who did not hide her hair by covering her head from men). I saw one woman hanging by her tongue with her hands tied against her back. (She used to hurt her husband's feelings by her tongue i.e. speaking). I saw one woman with both her hands and feet tied towards her forehead; and snakes and scorpions were attacking her. (She used to go out of her house without the permission of her husband and she did not clean herself up properly by taking a shower after menses and childbirth bleeding). Those Islamic sisters who use nail polish should learn a lesson from this. Keep in mind! Nail polish contains spirit and spirit is alcohol and alcohol is unclean. Since nail polish sticks to the surface of the nail hence, ablution and bath is not made. One woman was eating her own flesh and there was fire burning under her. (She used to dress up and apply make-up in order to attract attention of males and she used to speak bad about people behind their backs). One woman was seen having her body being cut by a scissors made out of fire. (This was the punishment for showing her body and private parts to other men). One woman had a face of pig and the body of a donkey, and she was being punished in different styles. (She used to tell lies and make false accusations). There was a woman who looked like a dog, snakes and scorpions
    were entering into her front-side and coming out from her backside. And angels were hitting her with a hammer made up of fire. (! She used to have an attitude problem towards her husband).

    LIFE IS VERY SHORT

    Read these punishments again and again, and be frightened by the wrath of Allah. Life is very short. Before you even realize, it will come to an end. Very soon, all those people who listen to us or care about us will take our dead body to the graveyard on their shoulders and bury it. If Allah and His dear Prophet get annoyed by us, then we would not be able to face severe and horrifying Punishments in the grave and as well as on the Day of Judgement. Let us pray that Allah forgives us and becomes happy with us. Please, for your own sake, follow the practice of veiling and, also strictly, advise to your mother, sister, friends to make it a habit of practicing this custom of
    veiling. Allah will ask to us about our family and their activities.
    "Oh my sisters! Keep on veiling always
    Do not go out and wander in the Streets
    Otherwise listen! When you go in your Grave
    You will scream by looking at the Scorpions and snakes.

    Assalamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullahee wa Barakatu

    I would like to have a source of your information

    Is there any evidence that using nail polish is the same as not making ghusl after menses/labor? Even if it is unclean, it still does not break ones ablution and the woman does not have to do ghusl. There is a difference of opinions if alcohol is najis in that sense. It is forbidden to drink it, but touching it does not nullify wudhu.
    I believe that those two cases cannot be compared.

    Women used to go out of the house during the time of the Prophet and they were not admonished or criticized. In one incident a woman was molested by Jews in the marketplace. They raised her skirt so that the awrah could be seen. The Muslims sieged banu Nadeer because of their behaviour. However, the Muslima was not admonised for walking outside. No one said to her why she walk in the marketplace by herself.

    Obedience to the husband is different. If the husband forbids her to exit the house then she must obey his decision, but if he allows her then it is not a problem. The woman above was punished because of disloyalty towards husband, but because of walking outdoors.

    I am sure that sisters are permitted (it's even a right) to go to the mosque to pray Jama'ah, even it it is already dark outside eg Ishaa/Fajr.

    How do you define "attitude problem towards husband"?

    I know from the Sealed Nectar that Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wassallam saw a woman hanged by her breasts because she used to display them in this world to strangers.


    lol morality.  More like scared shitless of a monster that Freddy Kruger, Jason, and all the Alien movies combined couldn't top.  This shit would make Ed Gein and Ted Bundy blush. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #72 - December 22, 2010, 09:56 AM

    Actually, the thing that most struck me about the Qur'an when I first read it was how nakedly and unapologetically manipulative and coercive it was. I still don't quite understand how intelligent people can fall for such obvious manipulation

    +1

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #73 - December 22, 2010, 01:22 PM

    Deusvult, is there a Hadith mentioned along with those stories about hell?
    Would like to look it up

    <dust>: i love tea!!!
    <dust>: milky tea
    <three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
    <dust>: mm
    <three>: it's definitely not called neck
    <dust>: lol
    <three>: what's the word i'm looking for
    <dust>: throat
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #74 - February 26, 2014, 08:55 PM

    I would use this:

    "[It is He] who has made for you the earth as a bed [spread out] and inserted therein for you roadways and sent down from the sky, rain and produced thereby categories of various plants."

    20:53

  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #75 - February 26, 2014, 08:58 PM

    Bed? Pretty sure when I read it it said carpet...possibly sheet or blanket but I'm fairly certain carpet.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #76 - February 26, 2014, 09:15 PM

    found this interesting

    Quote
    Dear brothers Husan and Lawal,
    I just reviewed the literal meaning of the verses quoted in the comment. Here are what I found in the four Quran translations available for you on the alim.org, talking about the earth:
    15:19:  Spread out.
    18:47:  A barren waste.
    20:53:  Cradle, bed, or carpet.
    43:10:  Cradle, resting place, or carpet.
    50:7:    Spread out.
    51:48:  Spread out or laid out.
    71:19:  Wide expanse or carpet.
    78:6:    Resting place, a bed, or an expanse.
    ​79:30:  Spread out or expanse.
    First of all we need to understand the context, content, and direct addressees of the specific verses, then learn the meaning and explanations of scholars through their presentations instead creating our own. None of these verses reflect earth in terms of a physical body as flat. May Allah, SWT help us all. Aameen.

    http://www.alim.org/library/quran/ayah/compare/20/53/dialogue-between-musa-and-fir'on
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #77 - February 26, 2014, 10:20 PM

    First
    Quote
    we need to understand the context

     and then
    Quote
    None of these verses reflect earth in terms of a physical body as flat.

     Just another Harry case.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #78 - November 09, 2014, 01:49 PM

    Not the Qur'an but an authentic hadith:
    “I looked into Hell and I saw that the majority of its people are women.” (Narrated by al-Bukhari, 3241; Muslim, 2737)
    When asked why, Muhammad stated: "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands" (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 304)

    Although this is slightly true (kidding!), it would mean Allah is punishing his creation for their nature. That doesn't seem just to me.
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #79 - November 09, 2014, 02:14 PM

    If it is true, how are they going to find all those virgins for all those martyrs?
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #80 - November 09, 2014, 02:26 PM

    If it is true, how are they going to find all those virgins for all those martyrs?


    No problem!

    Quote
    It was narrated from Abu Umamah that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: “There is no one whom Allah will admit to Paradise but Allah will marry him to seventy-two wives, two from houris and seventy from his inheritance from the people of Hell, all of whom will have desirable front passages and he will have a male member that never becomes flaccid (i.e., soft and limp).’”


    The hadith is from the book of Zuhd so it's not impossible to dismiss but regardless.

    أشهد أن لا إله
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #81 - November 09, 2014, 02:54 PM

    Not the Qur'an but an authentic hadith:
    “I looked into Hell and I saw that the majority of its people are women.” (Narrated by al-Bukhari, 3241; Muslim, 2737)
    When asked why, Muhammad stated: "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands" (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 304)

    Although this is slightly true (kidding!), it would mean Allah is punishing his creation for their nature. That doesn't seem just to me.


    That is a very simple but very true - and is clearly unjust.
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #82 - May 19, 2015, 11:22 AM

    The Qur'an claims humans are created perfectly by Allah.

    “We have indeed created humankind in the best of molds.” Quran 95:4
    “The work of Allah who has perfected everything (He created). Qur’an 27:88
    “He is the One Who has made perfectly everything He has created" Quran 32:7-9

    We are riddled with flaws and imperfections left over from the evolutionary process. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEl9kVl6KPc

    Therefore, the Qur'an is wrong.
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #83 - May 19, 2015, 11:28 AM

    Perfectly imperfect Tongue
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #84 - May 19, 2015, 11:38 AM

    Quote
    One argument to disprove the Quran


    It is NOT word of allah/god   ....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #85 - May 19, 2015, 12:33 PM

    Abrogation. The idea that the everlasting, all-knowing lord of the entire universe could not even keep on track with the same game plan for 23 years without changing his mind. And as “a day with Allah is like 1000 years of how humans reckon,” it would mean that from his perspective, the wise Allah could not keep his words valid for more than a half an hour without changing his mind.
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #86 - May 19, 2015, 02:30 PM

    Abrogation. The idea that the everlasting, all-knowing lord of the entire universe could not even keep on track with the same game plan for 23 years without changing his mind. And as “a day with Allah is like 1000 years of how humans reckon,” it would mean that from his perspective, the wise Allah could not keep his words valid for more than a half an hour without changing his mind.


    It never sat well with me that God changed his mind and was a moral relativist. It's unusual that there was so many needs for abrogation during Muhammad's 20 year prophetic career (due to context or social perceptions etc), but after that short period there will never be a need for abrogation for the rest of time.

    It also seems very inefficient that many of Muhammad's revelations and teachings were context based. The only reason he received some revelations and gave some teachings was because he found himself in an environment that needed a specific answer. What about the countless contexts he wasn't in and gave no information about?! The ambiguity is just begging for theological disputes.
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #87 - May 19, 2015, 04:34 PM

    I always found these two verses funny:

    13:13 The thunder hymneth His praise and (so do) the angels for awe of Him. He launcheth the thunderbolts and smiteth with them whom He will while they dispute (in doubt) concerning Allah, and He is mighty in wrath.   
    13:14 Unto Him is the real prayer. Those unto whom they pray beside Allah respond to them not at all, save as (is the response to) one who stretcheth forth his hands toward water (asking) that it may come unto his mouth, and it will never reach it. The prayer of disbelievers goeth (far) astray.

    First, we understand how lightning works extremely well. God must really like striking those who do not seek shelter during storms as well as those who who are in contact with conductors during a storm. In fact, if you wore a rubber suit, allah would be completely powerless to strike you down even if you ran around outside daring him to.

    The second verse is funny because it makes such a big deal about how other gods you pray to give you no response. This implies that Allah is different or else he wouldn't be making fun of the other gods. Yet, as all of you probably know, whether you pray to allah, jesus, Krishna, Thor, or to the sun, you get the same response. Absolute silence. Believe me I've tried.

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #88 - May 19, 2015, 04:56 PM

    13:14 Unto Him is the real prayer. Those unto whom they pray beside Allah respond to them not at all, save as (is the response to) one who stretcheth forth his hands toward water (asking) that it may come unto his mouth, and it will never reach it. The prayer of disbelievers goeth (far) astray...


    The verse… makes such a big deal about how other gods you pray to give you no response. This implies that Allah is different or else he wouldn't be making fun of the other gods. Yet, as all of you probably know, whether you pray to allah, jesus, Krishna, Thor, or to the sun, you get the same response. Absolute silence. Believe me I've tried.


    Yes that one really is a killer. Yet despite it being so blatantly obvious, few believers see it.

    It's mentioned in the book:  My Ordeal…
  • One argument to disprove the Quran
     Reply #89 - May 19, 2015, 11:37 PM

    I always found these two verses funny:

    13:13 The thunder hymneth His praise and (so do) the angels for awe of Him. He launcheth the thunderbolts and smiteth with them whom He will while they dispute (in doubt) concerning Allah, and He is mighty in wrath.   
    13:14 Unto Him is the real prayer. Those unto whom they pray beside Allah respond to them not at all, save as (is the response to) one who stretcheth forth his hands toward water (asking) that it may come unto his mouth, and it will never reach it. The prayer of disbelievers goeth (far) astray.

    Those verses read to me like a hymn to an eastern Mediterranean storm-god: Tarchunt, Hadad, Ba'al, Zeus...
  • Previous page 1 2 34 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »