In this thread: people wasting time.
His point of view: "Things are like this because I believe they are like this because the Quran said so"
Everyone else: "How can you know the Quran is right / What if you are wrong / What if things are not like that?"
His replies: "Not possible, because I believe things are like this, because God/Quran/Mohammed said so and God cannot be wrong"
Everyone else: "But what if..."
Etcetera, etcetera...
Precisely. But we have to try... ca ira
Because when I read the words of His Book, I believe Him. They make sense to me. It will profit me nothing to decide to disbelieve, and I win everything to believe. So why not?
A Christian or Jew may likewise have an unshakeable belief in his god's words. It says nothing about whether that god really exists.
Your assertions that you will gain if you believe and lose if you don't are entirely based on your unsubstantiated assumption of the truth of Islam.
Here's the problem. As should have been made plain to you by now, belief does not, in any way, prove that any given belief is in fact true.
For something to actually be true, and not simply believed in, it requires objectively verifiable evidence for its truth. Your belief is predicated upon an unshakeable assumption of Islam's truth; the exact same kind of assumption that any Jew or Christian could have about their religions. But of course, you can't all be right, can you? No.
Therefore, in order to ascertain whether something is actually true, it requires external, objective evidence to substantiate it. Your position precludes such support, and therefore your belief is no better substantiated than the baseless beliefs of other religionists, who merely assume the absolute truth of the faith they happen to be born into, completely disregarding any argumentation or evidence that might show its falsehood.
If you don't make your beliefs amenable to argumentation, external evidence and so forth, then you have rendered it unfalsifiable. So, even if you were completely wrong about everything, you would make yourself unable to see that fact.
So, I know it's possible that I'm wrong and that I'm deceiving myself, or deceived by the Devil, but do you? With your unshakeable faith in both Islam and, of course, your own human judgement?
Sure. But why do I care about "them?"
Because their situation perfectly resembles your own.
Well, I know that Allah said that if we reach towards Him He will take steps towards us. I don't know if the same is in the other books.
Again you assume the truth of Islam. Besides, I'm sure you could find similar things in the other scriptures, especially if Allah said that sent the Qur'an to confirm the previous revelations, no?
But it any case, regardless of such a thing in other religions, other religionists can do exactly what you say someone struggling with their faith should do.
lol
I'm sorry if I'm not responding the way you would wish me to, but I am responding based on what I actually believe. If that isn't good enough for you to have a thoroughly satisfying debate with me, I'm afraid I cannot help you.
From my point-of-view it is by no means a 'problem.'
Would you like me instead to deny my faith and argue based on atheistic rules?
Is it even possible to have a productive debate between two people who only accept propositions and ideas that they themselves already hold? And therefore, cannot be persuaded to believe in or accept any new idea?
It's problematic for the reasons that I explained above.
You don't have to deny your faith to make it amenable to evidence and argumentation.
Logic and evidence are not 'atheistic' rules. They are the standards that we, as humans, require to live and to make any kind of judgement, including as to whether Islam is true and something like Christianity isn't.
A belief is only worth holding if it withstands criticism or scrutiny. As I said, any religionist can do what you do, but that says nothing about the truth of their religion.
The only way to test if any religion is actually true is to see if it has evidence on its side, if its notion of God is logically coherent and so on.
A person who says that these are just 'atheistic ideas,' as explained, thereby renders his belief unfalsifiable and so, even if it were the most logically incoherent and contradicted by the evidence belief that existed, that person would not be able to understand that, and they would persist in complete self-delusion.
Topic: Peace, All