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Theme Changer

 Topic: Peace, All

 (Read 193189 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 28 29 3031 32 ... 61 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #870 - June 22, 2010, 09:33 PM

    Which claims?


    claims in the quran*
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #871 - June 22, 2010, 09:35 PM

    Well men wrote the Quran, you do realise that dont you?

    And you take their word for it that they wrote down what Muhammed wanted and you take their word for it that Muhammed claimed Allah told him it.

    Bit too many things that you are taking at face value here, particularly if you intend to spend your whole life sacrificing towards it.


    You have to place the risk somewhere.  In this case I am quite secure. Smiley

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #872 - June 22, 2010, 09:36 PM

    claims in the quran*


    The Qur'an is its own proof.  Didn't you know?

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #873 - June 22, 2010, 09:37 PM

    You have to place the risk somewhere.  In this case I am quite secure. Smiley

    Watch this 3 minute video:  a counter wager to the Pascal's Wager, (which you seem to be following)
    A God I Could Believe In - aka "Keight's Wager"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN4q5A2_fNU

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #874 - June 22, 2010, 09:37 PM

    I'm out, guys.  See you tomorrow.

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #875 - June 22, 2010, 09:37 PM

    Warning *circular logic* about to hit this thread.  Be on high alert.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #876 - June 22, 2010, 09:38 PM

    You have to place the risk somewhere.  In this case I am quite secure. Smiley

    No you dont

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #877 - June 22, 2010, 09:40 PM

    The Qur'an is its own proof.  Didn't you know?

    so you believe solomon could speak with ants?  idiot2
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #878 - June 22, 2010, 09:43 PM


    Oh well, that I makes me a Kafir then, because I spit on Muhammed described in some Hadiths/Sira accounts... I spit on the Biblical Moses, the Biblical David, the Biblical Solomon and almost all the the rest of the Biblical prophets... The Bible makes me wanna spit on its prophets, and some Hadiths/Sira accounts makes me wanna spit on the alleged character of the thug they claim to be Muhammed.    


    my brother!!  dance

    WE ARE NOT WORTHY WE ARE NOT WORTHY

     suckers
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #879 - June 22, 2010, 09:48 PM

    What about it?  When was this hadith found?  200 years after the prophet left earth?

    Why would it mean anything to me?


    Er along with all the other hadiths friend.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #880 - June 22, 2010, 09:55 PM

    +1


    +2

    If there was ever a soul that longed to believe there is a merciful, LOVING, compassionate diety that
    CREATED AND CARED about one's well being, its me!   I have tried xianity (holiness pentacostal for 10 yrs)
    I have tried WICCA/and various pagan beliefs.  And lastly, I gave all i had to islam, in a last desperate attempt
    at pleasing the creator, and hoping for some help, i was/am in dire need of.  One by one i crossed them off the
    list, absolutely exhausted, and in the case of islam and xianity, almost expired doing my absolute best to
    obey and be as devout as one can possibly be.  When I was made aware of MANY truths, falacies in islam,
    i threw in the towel.  PROVE to me god even exists and i will come running back today!

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #881 - June 22, 2010, 09:58 PM

    The one that is most consistent with the core Message:  Believe in the One God, do good, avoid evil.


    In other words, one must presuppose that the core tenet of Islam is true in order to know whether or not Islam, or any other religion for that matter, is true.

    That is, logically speaking, exactly the same as saying that the best car in the world is a red Ferrari because the best car in the world has to be both red and a Ferrari. Both cases presuppose the rectitude of a position that has, in fact, yet to be substantiated.

    Have you been studying that circular reasoning thing I showed you?

    Reason and intelligence are indeed very important tools in our repertoire of interacting with reality.  But faith is also a vital part of that tool kit because what we see here, is not all that there is.


    Haha The very exercise of reason and rational decision making is a prerequisite to knowing what we should or should not put our faith in in the first place!

    You can't just place faith in the first religion that you come accross. The only way you can possibly know what religion you should put your faith in is by the exercise of reason. If you don't use reason to determine what religion is actually correct in the first instance, then you are following nothing more than caprice, and could be led to believe in any religion, regardless of how ridiculous it is.

    I don't reject it, I just don't deify it, nor do I use it all by itself without faith/belief to control it.  Without faith/belief, reason/logic becomes a tool of the adversary whose only job is to drag you into hell with him.

    Take heed.


    No-one in their right mind asserts that human reason is some kind of deity or is infallible. Only those who hold certain views and say that their judgement regarding those views cannot be incorrect assert that their mere human reason and judgement is infallible. That is, the kind of zealots who have absolute and unshakeable faith. They, in fact, have absolute unshakeable faith in their own fallible human reason and judgement.

    Quite the contrary! The effective use of reason demands agnosticism, skepticism, and the presuppositional understanding that one's own reason is completely fallible.

    And if the Adversary does not have the Truth on his side, and the Truth stands clear from falsehood, and falsehood is bound to perish, and God created man's reason with the intent that he use it to recognize the Truth... how can the adversary possibly win against someone who understands his own fallibility and who only believes in the strongest ideas, because surely Islam must be founded upon the strongest ideas?
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #882 - June 22, 2010, 10:08 PM

    It said in the first few sentences that it was a "hostile" tribe.  Do you even know what 'innocent' means, dude?  And the slave that was captured was already a slave who was later freed!  Getoutofhere with your foolishness...


    The daughter of the head of the tribe was a slave?

    Do you even know who safiyyah was?

    You are one the the most ignorant people I have ever encountered but this thread was worth it simply for that pic of the rock. I laughed all the way to the grocery store.


    Sorry but I don't bow down to anything that men come up with.  


    The quran came out the the mouth of the prophet just like the hadith did.

    Do you think the quran floated down from the sky?


    What about it?  When was this hadith found?  200 years after the prophet left earth?

    Why would it mean anything to me?


    Yes they just "found" it 200 years later. It was under some old boxes.

    Do you pray rasheed?


    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #883 - June 22, 2010, 10:10 PM

    The daughter of the head of the tribe was a slave?

    Do you even know who safiyyah was?

    You are one the the most ignorant people I have ever encountered but this thread was worth it simply for that pic of the rock. I laughed all the way to the grocery store.


    The quran came out the the mouth of the prophet just like the hadith did.

    Do you think the quran floated down from the sky?


    Do you pray rasheed?


     dance
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #884 - June 22, 2010, 10:16 PM

    digdug wrote:  Do you even know who safiyyah was?

    i already brought her up.... apparently, im "nit picking"  whistling2

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #885 - June 22, 2010, 10:24 PM

    dance


    I'm still laughing man

    digdug wrote:  Do you even know who safiyyah was?

    i already brought her up.... apparently, im "nit picking"  whistling2


    Sorry... I was in a rush when I read his post so I didn't even catch what he said. It's funny cause all through the first pages of the thread he kept talking about "if takes steps towards allah he will run to you" and this is from the hadith but I guess he just picks and chooses which ones he likes.

    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #886 - June 22, 2010, 10:28 PM

    You are one the the most ignorant people I have ever encountered but this thread was worth it simply for that pic of the rock. I laughed all the way to the grocery store.

    I cant take the credit for it unforunately.  It was inspired by this thread..

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=9078.50

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #887 - June 22, 2010, 11:29 PM

    Salam akhi.

    This is your intro thread right.

    Btw were you born Muslim or convert?
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #888 - June 22, 2010, 11:31 PM

    go to the first or second page of the thread, he explains it at the beginning I think..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #889 - June 23, 2010, 12:39 AM

    I'm still laughing man

    Sorry... I was in a rush when I read his post so I didn't even catch what he said. It's funny cause all through the first pages of the thread he kept talking about "if takes steps towards allah he will run to you" and this is from the hadith but I guess he just picks and chooses which ones he likes.


    just wanted to spare you the pian of being ignored and accused of nit picking lol.

    Rasheed...  "european stock"Huh??   WTH MAN!!!  and that aint nit picking.
    imagine if i said "negro or black stock"  dont be hatin dude.  your "true colors" are showing thru

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #890 - June 23, 2010, 05:26 AM

    just wanted to spare you the pian of being ignored and accused of nit picking lol.


    What context did you bring up safiyyah cause I couldn't find your post. I don't think mrasheed had ever heard that hadith before because safiyyah was the slave in question. He tried to claim that she was a slave before the Muslims conquered khaybar but this is not correct.

    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #891 - June 23, 2010, 05:27 AM

    Quran only Muslims made me rage when I was a Muslim and they still kinda do. It just doesn't make any sense. 80% of the Islam comes from hadith and they are absolutely essential to being a Muslim. So here are a few questions I would like quran only muslims to ask themselves...

    The five pillars of islam are shahada, prayer, fasting, zakah, hajj

    I would like quran only muslims to show me how to perform these 5 pillars usin evidence from the quran alone.

    Shahada: The "shahada" or the testimony of faith is what one has to profess in order to become a Muslim. I am a non Muslim who wants to become a Muslim. Could someone please show me where in the quran that this testimony of faith is?

    Prayer: Could someone please show me where the five daily prayers are even mentioned in the quran let alone how to perform them or a what times?

    Fasting: As a non arab reading the quran I'm curious as to what ramadan actually is...Is it a month? how do I know when its ramadan? do I not eat the entire month long? Using evidence from the quran could you please explain how I am supposed to fast as a Muslim?

    Zakah: or charity...the people who are eligible to receive zakah are listed in the quran. But how much am I supposed to pay and when?

    Hajj: or pilgrimage...how am I supposed to perform pilgrimage? where am I supposed to go? what do I do when I get there? is there a special time for me to perform pilgrimage? please explain this using evidence from the quran.

    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #892 - June 23, 2010, 05:35 AM

    How the Muslims are permitted to acquire slaves

    Let me first start with a statement from the scholars...

    Quote
    "Slaves (men and women) may be taken in the wars that take place between Muslims and kaafirs, not in wars that are fought amongst the Muslims at times of tribulation.

    Islam limited the sources of slaves which existed before the mission of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to just one source, namely slavery resulting from capturing prisoners from among the kuffaar, including women and children.

    Shaykh al-Shanqeeti (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The reason why a person may be taken as a slave is his being a kaafir and waging war against Allaah and His Messenger. If Allaah enables the Muslims who are striving and sacrificing their lives and their wealth and all that Allaah has given them to make the word of Allaah supreme over the kaafirs, then He allows them to enslave the kuffaar when they capture them, unless the ruler chooses to free them or to ransom them, if that serves the interests of the Muslims.

    Adwa’ al-Bayaan, 3/387" http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/26067/


    Now lets examine the types of "jihad" or fighting between Muslims and non Muslims...

    Quote
    "Jihaad against the kuffaar with weapons is of two types: jihad talab (offensive jihad) and jihad daf’ (defensive jihad).

    Jihad talab means attacking the kuffaar in their own lands until they become Muslim or pay the jizyah with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I have been commanded to fight the people until they bear witness that there is no god but Allaah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah, and establish regular prayer, and pay zakaah. If they do that, then they have protected their blood and their wealth from me, except in cases decreed by Islamic law, and their reckoning with be with Allaah.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 25; Muslim, 20." http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/26125/


    Now defensive jihad (jihad daf') is pretty self explainatory. But we need to look closer at offensive jihad (jihad talab).

    As the scholars have explained using the authentic hadith jihbad talab is to attack the non Muslims in order to spread the message of Islam. How this works is non Muslims are invited to Islam and if they refuse they are to be attacked. It does not matter whether they were hostile towards the Muslims or not. Males women and children of these non Muslims are permissable to be taken and sold as slaves.

    Proof that Muhammad and his companions acquired slaves in this manner


    Quote
    Narrated 'Abdul 'Aziz: Anas said, 'When Allah's Apostle invaded Khaibar, we offered the Fajr prayer there yearly in the morning) when it was still dark. The Prophet rode and Abu Talha rode too and I was riding behind Abu Talha. The Prophet passed through the lane of Khaibar quickly and my knee was touching the thigh of the Prophet . He uncovered his thigh and I saw the whiteness of the thigh of the Prophet. When he entered the town, he said, 'Allahu Akbar! Khaibar is ruined. Whenever we approach near a (hostile) nation (to fight) then evil will be the morning of those who have been warned.' He repeated this thrice. The people came out for their jobs and some of them said, 'Muhammad (has come).' (Some of our companions added, "With his army.") We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and the Booty was collected. Dihya came and said, 'O Allah's Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.' The Prophet said, 'Go and take any slave girl.' He took Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet and said, 'O Allah's Apostles! You gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraiza and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.' So the Prophet said, 'Bring him along with her.' So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet saw her, he said to Dihya, 'Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.' Anas added: The Prophet then manumitted her and married her." Thabit asked Anas, "O Abu Hamza! What did the Prophet pay her (as Mahr)?" He said, "Her self was her Mahr for he manumitted her and then married her." Anas added, "While on the way, Um Sulaim dressed her for marriage (ceremony) and at night she sent her as a bride to the Prophet . So the Prophet was a bridegroom and he said, 'Whoever has anything (food) should bring it.' He spread out a leather sheet (for the food) and some brought dates and others cooking butter. (I think he (Anas) mentioned As-SawTq). So they prepared a dish of Hais (a kind of meal). And that was Walrma (the marriage banquet) of Allah's Apostle ."


    In this hadith it shows that the women of defeated peoples may be taken as slaves. These women were not slaves they were members of the jewish tribe in question. the bolded text shows that even the "chief mistress" of the tribe was available to be taken as a slave.

    Quote
    It was narrated that Ruwayfi’ ibn Thaabit al-Ansaari said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say on the day of Hunayn: “It is not permissible for any man who believes in Allaah and the Last Day to irrigate the crop of another else – meaning to have intercourse with a woman who is pregnant. And it is not permissible for a man who believes in Allaah and the Last Day to have intercourse with a captured woman until he has established that she is not pregnant. And it is not permissible for a man who believes in Allaah and the Last Day to sell any booty until it has been shared out.”

    Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2158; classed as hasan by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 1890.


    This hadith further proves that it is permissible for Muslims to take captive women as salves and have intercourse with them.

    Slaves that were owned by Muhammad


    The following is an account by the scholars of the slaves that were owned by Muhammad. Many of them were black (nubian). He owned over 25 slaves.

    Quote
    Ibn al-Qayyim said:

    Zayd ibn Haarithah ibn Shuraaheel, the beloved of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He freed him and arranged his marriage to his freed slave woman Umm Ayman, and she bore him Usaamah. His other slaves include Aslam, Abu Raafi’, Thawbaan, Abu Kabshah Sulaym, Shaqraan (whose name was Saalih), Rabaah (who was Nubian), Yassaar (who was also Nubian and was killed by the ‘Arniyeen); Mid’am and Kirkirah (another Nubian) – these two were killed at Khaybar. They also included Anjashah al-Haadi and Safeenah ibn Farookh, whose real name was Mihraan, but the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) called him Safeenah (= “ship”) because they used to make him carry their luggage when they traveled, so he said, “You are a ship (anta safeenah).” Abu Haatim said that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) freed him; someone else said that Umm Salamah freed him. The Prophet’s slaves also included Anasah, whose nickname was Abu Mashrah; Aflah; ‘Ubayd; Tahmaan – also known as Keesaan; Dhakwaan; Mihraan; Marwaan – although it was said that this was another name of Tahmaan, and Allaah knows best; Hunayn; Sandar; Fudaalah (who was Yemeni); Maaboor (who was a eunuch); Waaqid; Abu Waaqid; Qassaam; Abu ‘Usayb and Abu Muwayhabah.  

    His female slaves included: Salma (Umm Raafi’); Maymoonah bint Sa’d; Khadrah; Radwa; Razeenah; Umm Dameerah; Maymoonah bint Abi ‘Usayb; Maariyah and Rayhaanah.

    Zaad al-Ma’aad, 1/114-116


    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #893 - June 23, 2010, 05:53 AM

    Again, imagine I am a pagan and my wife converted to Islam, ran to your city and wanted to marry you, then God say that you cannot marry my wife until you pay me the money I hgave her when I married her. Is this the same God that allows you to rape my wife, if she weren't a Muslim and you conqured my city?

    May be you'd say yes, but I don't see how that would be true.

    I haven't read all of this thread, and this might've been brought up already, but i'll say it anyways in case it hasn't. You're forgetting that in Medina Muslims were initially quite outnumbered. If pagan women ran to medina, there's a high probability that Mo asked for their husbands to be paid off just to appease to the meccans, so the muslims in medina wouldn't be attacked. Hence, this procedure could quite possibly be for his own safely.

    Secondly, I wouldn't be surprised if the same god that asked for the husbands to be paid off later allowed for slavery and rape. There are a lot of contradictory verses like this already, for example 'for you my religion, for you, yours' and later verses saying 'kill them until religion is only that of allah's and if they pray and give zakat then leave them alone' as well as destroying all pagan gods in kaba. The god which can issue verses removing adoption and allowing adopted sons' wives to be married, can just as easily later allow for captured women to be enslaved and raped.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #894 - June 23, 2010, 05:56 AM


    Oh well, that I makes me a Kafir then, because I spit on Muhammed described in some Hadiths/Sira accounts... I spit on the Biblical Moses, the Biblical David, the Biblical Solomon and almost all the the rest of the Biblical prophets... The Bible makes me wanna spit on its prophets, and some Hadiths/Sira accounts makes me wanna spit on the alleged character of the thug they claim to be Muhammed.    


     *RIBS pinches himself to see if what he just read was actually said by debunker*

    OOOUUUCHHH!


    ...
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #895 - June 23, 2010, 06:08 AM

    The wha--?   Huh?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPGb4STRfKw&feature=youtube_gdata

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krb2OdQksMc&feature=youtube_gdata

    ...
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #896 - June 23, 2010, 06:17 AM

    It was revealed # 91 right after Al-Ahzab, right after the Surah that mentioned the Meccan coalition to crush the Muslims! So many battles have already been fought before Sura 60 and it was revealed AFTER the Meccans almost totally crushed the Muslims with their big coalition.

    http://www.missionislam.com/quran/revealationorder.htm

    There you go. Now it explains perfectly why Mo would want to pay off the meccan husbands: to avoid another attack of the sort.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #897 - June 23, 2010, 06:50 AM

    Oh?

    What other reason is there that you would take on (specifically black!) slaves after a discussion with me?

    Simple. You were (still are too) claiming that there is nothing wrong with the institution of slavery. So naturally I'm curious to learn more about your position on this. One obvious question would be do you, personally, see anything wrong with white people owning black slaves?

    So, do you?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #898 - June 23, 2010, 07:50 AM

    Proven itself in matters of faith?  Proven itself in the Unseen using the scientific method?  The scientific method is but one way to reach a certain type of truth, but it is useless when reaching for Truth.

    Wow! Circular? That was a complete backflip with dislocated spine.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #899 - June 23, 2010, 07:52 AM

    He did a Jackie Chan?
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