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Theme Changer

 Topic: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?

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  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #30 - June 27, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on June 27, 2010, 07:57 PM
    Extremely so. Have you read the threads we had about him?


    No.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #31 - June 27, 2010, 08:06 PM
    Here: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=10274.0

    He is is senior editor (politics) at the New Statesman and a former news and current affairs editor at Channel 4.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #32 - June 27, 2010, 09:58 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on June 27, 2010, 06:16 PM
    I'm not necessarily saying that her interpretation is wrong, but she seems to say that her comparatively liberal interpretation is the main one, and that 'extreme' interpretations are the esoteric ones.

    Orthodox Islamic jurisprudence is certainly 'extreme' in some respects, but it isn't by any means accepted by only a few, fringe Muslims.


    Lets be fair, we let liberal Jews and Christians get away with say all sort of stuff about how wonderful their religions are. Orthodox Judaism and Literalist Christianity are hardy dreamy walks in meadows.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #33 - June 27, 2010, 10:00 PM
    OK sure Mr. Silly but will you be harmed if you criticize Christianity or Judaism openly? Especially as a Christian/Jewish apostate.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #34 - June 27, 2010, 10:05 PM
    Quote from: MrSilly on June 27, 2010, 09:58 PM
    Lets be fair, we let liberal Jews and Christians get away with say all sort of stuff about how wonderful their religions are. Orthodox Judaism and Literalist Christianity are hardy dreamy walks in meadows.


    Sure Christianity and Judaism have BS in them. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't address the present problematic religion, i.e., Islam.

    Besides, anyone's allowed to criticise Christianity and Judaism. People do it all the time.

    There's a lot of BS about Islam right now, a lot of ignorant people and the fear of saying some unpleasant, and yet true, things.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #35 - June 27, 2010, 10:13 PM
    Quote from: MrSilly on June 27, 2010, 09:58 PM
    Lets be fair, we let liberal Jews and Christians get away with say all sort of stuff about how wonderful their religions are. Orthodox Judaism and Literalist Christianity are hardy dreamy walks in meadows.

    Frankly, imo Orthodox Judaism (and its followers) is the craziest and the most fundamentalist of all abrahamic religions by far.

    But Orthodox Jews are the lunatic fringe. Israel is actually one of the most atheist countries on the planet.

    On the other hand the values of your average Muslim are deeply problematic and essentially supremacist.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #36 - June 27, 2010, 10:17 PM
    Quote from: MrSilly on June 27, 2010, 09:58 PM
    Lets be fair, we let liberal Jews and Christians get away with say all sort of stuff about how wonderful their religions are. Orthodox Judaism and Literalist Christianity are hardy dreamy walks in meadows.


    But the majority of your average Jews and Christians do not hold such unacceptable views as most average Muslims do.

    You know that - and I know that.

  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #37 - June 27, 2010, 10:19 PM
    Quote from: zebedee
    Sure Christianity and Judaism have BS in them. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't address the present problematic religion, i.e., Islam.

    Besides, anyone's allowed to criticise Christianity and Judaism. People do it all the time.

    There's a lot of BS about Islam right now, a lot of ignorant people and the fear of saying some unpleasant, and yet true, things.


    Yeah, I agree that we should address the BS in Islam. But I do find there is a quite a big double standard put on liberal Muslims, that their pronouncements on their faith are based on either lying or ignorance.

    The Archbishop of Canterbury gets away with all sorts about how fluffy and cuddly Christianity is, as so many spokespeople of Reform Judaism talk about how Judaism support women's rights, gay rights, human rights, etc.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #38 - June 27, 2010, 10:21 PM
    The Chairperson of the Association of Muslim Schools in the UK believes apostates should be executed.

    If a Christian or Jew held the position that apostates should be killed there would be an outcry.

    Why doesn't Mehdi Hasan spend the same amount of time combating such views as he does "Islamophobia"?
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #39 - June 27, 2010, 10:23 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 27, 2010, 10:17 PM
    But the majority of your average Jews and Christians do not hold such unacceptable views as most average Muslims do.

    You know that - and I know that.



    I am not disputing that. I just feel it is unfair the way that Liberal Muslims get flak about being lying or ignorant about their faith, simply because a lot of Muslims are Orthodox. The fact is, Judaism and Islam are equally reactionary, and Christianity isn't much better. So why treat the liberal voices of Islam so much harsher?
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #40 - June 27, 2010, 10:24 PM
    Quote from: MrSilly on June 27, 2010, 10:19 PM
    But I do find there is a quite a big double standard put on liberal Muslims, that their pronouncements on their faith are based on either lying or ignorance.


    I never heard of this Mehdi Hasan till this program - but as soon as I heard him - I know the type he is. A bullshitter and apologist for unacceptable views. He and his type are amongst the reasons such unacceptable views are not changing amongst Muslims.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #41 - June 27, 2010, 10:26 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on June 27, 2010, 10:00 PM
    OK sure Mr. Silly but will you be harmed if you criticize Christianity or Judaism openly? Especially as a Christian/Jewish apostate.


    In the hardcore judiasm they killed apostates. Moses killed people for alot less I can dig up some interesting stories. They killed all those people in like a mass murder when they worshipped the golden calf too haha but "god ressurected them".

    I just think that they have done a successful job of reforming their religions.

    I know you may have seen me defending the "orthadox" Islamic opinion many times but I'm not against the reform of Islam. It's just if Muslims acknowledge that certain beliefs are part of their faith and those beliefs are wrong and then discard them - this is ok.

    But i just don't feel it's right to say these beliefs were never a part of Islam in the first place because this is a lie.
    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #42 - June 27, 2010, 10:26 PM
    Quote from: MrSilly on June 27, 2010, 10:19 PM
    Yeah, I agree that we should address the BS in Islam. But I do find there is a quite a big double standard put on liberal Muslims, that their pronouncements on their faith are based on either lying or ignorance.

    The Archbishop of Canterbury gets away with all sorts about how fluffy and cuddly Christianity is, as so many spokespeople of Reform Judaism talk about how Judaism support women's rights, gay rights, human rights, etc.

    Not all interpretations of Islam are the same. I am quite a fan of The Tailor’s Doctrine; but he defends his position well - backed with verifiable facts that I can relate to (postmodern philosophy primarily).

    On the other hand Mehdi Hassan or Tariq Ramadan blatantly twist the facts and more importantly simply refuse to address the real issue at hand.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #43 - June 27, 2010, 10:28 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 27, 2010, 10:21 PM
    The Chairperson of the Association of Muslim Schools in the UK believes apostates should be executed.

    If a Christian or Jew held the position that apostates should be killed there would be an outcry.

    Why doesn't Mehdi Hasan spend the same amount of time combating such views as he does "Islamophobia"?


    I agree.

    My posts are in reference to the flak this convert lady seems to be getting. She's going on about how wonderful Islam is, and people ae saying she's lying or ignorant. Yes, I think she's ignorant, but the Archbishop of Canterbury doesn't get suck flak, neither do spokespeople of Reform Judaism.

  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #44 - June 27, 2010, 10:30 PM
    Quote from: MrSilly on June 27, 2010, 10:28 PM
    I agree.

    My posts are in reference to the flak this convert lady seems to be getting. She's going on about how wonderful Islam is, and people ae saying she's lying or ignorant. Yes, I think she's ignorant, but the Archbishop of Canterbury doesn't get suck flak, neither do spokespeople of Reform Judaism.




    OK. I didn't have a problem with her - perhaps only that she was clearly very naive.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #45 - June 27, 2010, 10:30 PM
    Quote from: MrSilly on June 27, 2010, 10:28 PM
    Yes, I think she's ignorant, but the Archbishop of Canterbury doesn't get suck flak, neither do spokespeople of Reform Judaism.

    Because their views pose no threat?
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #46 - June 27, 2010, 10:30 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 27, 2010, 10:24 PM
    I never heard of this Mehdi Hasan till this program - but as soon as I heard him - I know the type he is. A bullshitter and apologist for unacceptable views. He and his type are amongst the reasons such unacceptable views are not changing amongst Muslims.


    And I am not defending him. My posts are in reference to the lady convert.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #47 - June 27, 2010, 10:31 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on June 27, 2010, 10:30 PM
    Because their views pose no threat?


    Erm, how do her views pose a threat?
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #48 - June 27, 2010, 10:32 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on June 27, 2010, 10:26 PM

    On the other hand Mehdi Hassan or Tariq Ramadan blatantly twist the facts and more importantly simply refuse to address the real issue at hand.


    I agree
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #49 - June 27, 2010, 10:34 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on June 27, 2010, 10:13 PM

    On the other hand the values of your average Muslim are deeply problematic and essentially supremacist.


    Its suprising how many Jewish parents send their children to Jewish school, and Jewish schools have been resisting for years allowing gentiles to enter their schools. If that is not supremacist, then am not sure what is.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #50 - June 27, 2010, 10:45 PM
    Quote from: MrSilly on June 27, 2010, 10:31 PM
    Erm, how do her views pose a threat?

    Sorry, my post was badly phrased. I wasn't directly referring to her. What I meant is that media in UK has a real issue with showing what contemporary, widespread Islam really is like (and the threat it possess). People with liberal views like that convert you mentioned get a lot of attention even though they are a tiny minority.

    Imo, in a way it's like a smokescreen, obfuscating the real issues.

    If liberal Muslims (and by that I mean truly liberal) were in majority nobody would have objected to their views. 

    Quote from: MrSilly on June 27, 2010, 10:34 PM
    Its suprising how many Jewish parents send their children to Jewish school, and Jewish schools have been resisting for years allowing gentiles to enter their schools. If that is not supremacist, then am not sure what is.

    Ideally there should be no religious schools in secular societies.

    I really have no idea how come Jewish schools are allowed to do that. It's basically discrimination based on religion. Such things simply shouldn't exist.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #51 - June 28, 2010, 11:54 AM
    Sorry, I wasn't subscribed to this post so I didn't see the questions directed at me.  I was going to say

    "This is not a PR campaign it is a recruitment campaign, they are piggybacking off the negative publicity of atrocious acts of terrorism and should be ashamed of themselves.  Mehdi Hassah said that the problem is the actions of some Muslims, he sits here on public television saying exactly what everyone wants to hear but in front of a more selective audience he calls non-Muslims homosexuals, paedophiles, sexual deviants, cattle, animals, and people of no intelligence.  It is quite clear that Islam at least needs DIFFERENT PR".

    Or something along those lines anyway Smiley
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #52 - June 28, 2010, 11:56 AM
    You are my hero.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #53 - June 28, 2010, 12:01 PM
    It's ridiculous. They invited one of us to go to the show, but when TheRationalizer went, they ignored him completely. finmad
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #54 - June 28, 2010, 12:05 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on June 28, 2010, 11:54 AM
    Sorry, I wasn't subscribed to this post so I didn't see the questions directed at me.  I was going to say

    "This is not a PR campaign it is a recruitment campaign, they are piggybacking off the negative publicity of atrocious acts of terrorism and should be ashamed of themselves.  Mehdi Hassah said that the problem is the actions of some Muslims, he sits here on public television saying exactly what everyone wants to hear but in front of a more selective audience he calls non-Muslims homosexuals, paedophiles, sexual deviants, cattle, animals, and people of no intelligence.  It is quite clear that Islam at least needs DIFFERENT PR".

    Or something along those lines anyway Smiley



    Haha! Mehdi Hasan's as shifty as they come, no doubt.
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #55 - June 28, 2010, 12:18 PM
    Quote from: ateapotist on June 28, 2010, 12:01 PM
    It's ridiculous. They invited one of us to go to the show, but when TheRationalizer went, they ignored him completely. finmad


    They didn't know I found out through this site.  Good job too, they'd have probably announced me as an ex-Muslim Cheesy

    It did annoy me though.  I raised my hand first, sat quietly and patiently as we were instructed to at the start of the show and they didn't come to me.  People who raised their hands after me were approached, and the guy sitting to my left was asked to comment on two different topics. 

    I presented the quotes to Salma and the poster woman, their responses were
    Salma: How old are these?
    Me: The top one I think is only July 2009, not sure about the others.
    Salma: Oh....I expect they are out of context.
    Me: There isn't a context you could put them into which would make them mean anything else
    Salma: Oh, in that case email him for an explanation and copy me in on the email

    PW: This is not Islam, the Quran doesn't say this (blah blah blah, Muhammad was lovely, etc)

    I later presented the quotes to the producer of the show who seemed shocked by the comments and asked me to provide her with the source of the comments because she wanted to look into it.  What exactly that implies I do not know but I hope I find out.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #56 - June 28, 2010, 12:25 PM
    @TheRationalizer

    How come you were ignored by the host?
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #57 - June 28, 2010, 12:29 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on June 28, 2010, 12:18 PM
    They didn't know I found out through this site.  Good job too, they'd have probably announced me as an ex-Muslim Cheesy

    It did annoy me though.  I raised my hand first, sat quietly and patiently as we were instructed to at the start of the show and they didn't come to me.  People who raised their hands after me were approached, and the guy sitting to my left was asked to comment on two different topics. 

    I presented the quotes to Salma and the poster woman, their responses were
    Salma: How old are these?
    Me: The top one I think is only July 2009, not sure about the others.
    Salma: Oh....I expect they are out of context.
    Me: There isn't a context you could put them into which would make them mean anything else
    Salma: Oh, in that case email him for an explanation and copy me in on the email

    PW: This is not Islam, the Quran doesn't say this (blah blah blah, Muhammad was lovely, etc)

    I later presented the quotes to the producer of the show who seemed shocked by the comments and asked me to provide her with the source of the comments because she wanted to look into it.  What exactly that implies I do not know but I hope I find out.


    Good. Glad you didn't give up.

    Out of context what a bunch of spineless cowards. How about you let the man explain the context himself?
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #58 - June 28, 2010, 12:32 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on June 28, 2010, 12:29 PM
    Good. Glad you didn't give up.

    Out of context what a bunch of spineless cowards. How about you let the man explain the context himself?


    What's the point?  He's used to deceiving, I know what he said and he does too.  The only place to get him to answer is in a public forum such as this TV show.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Can you attend "The Big Question" Sunday Morn Birmingham?
     Reply #59 - June 28, 2010, 12:33 PM
    Well now a few more people know. It's a very tiny step. But it was the best you could do under the circumstances.
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