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 Topic: Comments on Debunker and IA debate

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  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #60 - June 27, 2010, 05:49 AM
    Quote from: debunker on June 27, 2010, 05:00 AM
    stupid as ever, but anyway, let me try one last time:

    Chrales speaking, while being scientifically sound:

    "the sight of the sun when it appears to be rising or when it appears to be setting, is wonderful!" Idiotic, huh?  piggy


    The statement is far better and far more correct than some other statement, which is supposedly the truth descended directly from Allah, claiming "sun sets/rises/prostrates/rests/follows moon", Mr Genius. You seem to be implying that by following the convention of speech followed by humans, Allah was talking from humans' perspective.

    But anyway, to remind you that you need to concentrate only on the debate with IA, here is my first thought again:

    From whose perspective Allah speaks in the Quran?
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #61 - June 27, 2010, 05:53 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 27, 2010, 05:44 AM
    Just curious: if you want to debate everyone in this thread too why do you need the one-on-one thread?


    I'm not having serious discussions here, Oz... merely casual ones.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #62 - June 27, 2010, 05:58 AM
    @ Charles

    Quote
    The statement is far better and far more correct than some other statement,

     
    says you.

    Quote
    which is supposedly the truth descended directly from Allah, claiming "sun sets/rises/prostrates/rests/follows moon", Mr Genius. You seem to be implying that by following the convention of speech followed by humans, Allah was talking from humans' perspective.

     
    Thanks for the compliment, but I'm a humble man.. I don't appreciate being praised beyond my reality.
    Anyway, that's exactly right, if we were Martians, God would have spoken Martian to us, duh!

    Quote
    But anyway, to remind you that you need to concentrate only on the debate with IA, here is my first thought again:
    From whose perspective Allah speaks in the Quran?

     

    God uses whatever language the humans used to get the point across... as for that particular verse, you need to look it up (I provided the verse number).
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #63 - June 27, 2010, 06:02 AM
    The sun 'appears to rise' and 'appears to set' is far better than 'sun rises and sun sets' which are inaccurate. I'm 100% with charles on this.
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #64 - June 27, 2010, 06:28 AM
    of course you are. parrot
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #65 - June 27, 2010, 07:35 AM
    Quote from: debunker on June 27, 2010, 04:31 AM
    Are you CRAZY??!!!! A one-on-one with TR??!!!

    Do you people want to see the heavy weight champions of debate? Then vote here...

    ...
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #66 - June 27, 2010, 09:07 AM
    What Ribs said is a link, click it to see his thread yes
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #67 - June 27, 2010, 11:43 AM
    Quote from: debunker on June 27, 2010, 03:19 AM
    The abuse started in the original one-on-one thread.. I told him he had no right to post there, but he kept posting, then Aziz moved the irrelevant posts to the comments thread.

    Anyway, I apologize to Rationalizer for the *language* but I certainly don't apologize for asking him to get out of that one-on-one thread.


    This is incorrect.  If it had been in the one-on-one forum I would never even have seen it because I don't subscribe to that forum.  The post was made in the "God and Religion" forum which is a forum open to debate from all users of this site.  IA posted what looked like a transcript of a conversation that had already taken place, a conversation that WAS private but had now been made public in order for other people to comment on.

    I posted, you got all offensive and wanted me to go away, I rightly refused (like the fictitious dog owner on the bus waiting for the police).  Other people commented afterwards, did you ask them to stop commenting? No, you persisted in telling ME that you don't want ME to post because you don't like ME.

    The request to move it to the one-on-one forum was therefore clearly discriminative.  You singled me out.  I was annoyed with Aziz for pandering to your demand because it was a clear case of personal victimisation.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #68 - June 27, 2010, 12:17 PM
    Sorry that this annoyed you, but I don't think my decision was completely wrong. You are still free to reply to his postings in other threads. I'm not censoring you, and never have when you argued with him.
    Because of the title of that particular thread I felt it was quite reasonable to exclude others out of it — even if the request by debunker was motivated by negative feelings towards you.
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
    Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #69 - June 27, 2010, 12:25 PM
    Quote from: debunker on June 27, 2010, 04:31 AM
    Are you CRAZY??!!!! A one-on-one with TR??!!!


    He won't do that for two reasons

    1: He can't use bullshit explanations like "The end was near because in relation to Allah the end has always been near" - One billion years is "near" for an eternal being, so saying the end is "Near according to Allah" means that the end could be anything within the range 0 < X < Infinity.  So, what's the point of mentioning "The end is near"?

    2: He has sex with slaves on his shelf (not literally, the subject of sex with slaves on his mental shelf).  He knows I will want to pick every item off his shelf and get him to think about them, he doesn't like to think about his shelf, it's dark and scary there.  It lacks the love of the most flawed perfect being in non-existence.

    This is why he is not open minded.  To be open minded you must be prepared to give up a lie you love for a truth you might hate.  There would be no debate, he hides behind the excuse that he can't stand me, whereas we all know that is impossible based on how absolutely adorable and loveable I am Wink
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #70 - June 27, 2010, 12:27 PM
    Nothing wrong with having sex with your slaves. Allah mandates it to be OK.

    Besides the immoral act of having a slave, and then having sex with a slave.

    Can you rape a slave according to Islam? Or rather what can you do if your slave refuses to have sex with you? Can your slave refuse to have sex with you?

    http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/med/lewis1.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_slavery
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #71 - June 27, 2010, 01:07 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on June 27, 2010, 12:27 PM
    Nothing wrong with having sex with your slaves. Allah mandates it to be OK.

    Off course., If Allah said or says that., then it should be O.K., But did Allah say that?? 
    Quote
    Besides the immoral act of having a slave, and then having sex with a slave.

    Well Slaves also need sex, why do you want deprave them that? More over Allah said it so they better follow. Otherwise hell fire under your butt. Or firecrackers on tail..lol..

    Quote
    Can you rape a slave according to Islam? Or rather what can you do if your slave refuses to have sex with you? Can your slave refuse to have sex with you?

    Slave is a slave., Once you are a slave, the owner is Allah... all mighty ..can do anything.. whatever she/he owner wants..

    Quote
    http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/med/lewis1.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_slavery

    Hmmmmm  You are asking him to read?? Nooo. Other than Quran/hadith/Sunnah .. Reading & thinking  is not Good for health.  Well on that note of reading here is good link to read.. http://www.faithfreedom.org/library/ 

    CEMB aso should have something like that BD..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #72 - June 27, 2010, 01:12 PM
    But i can trust FFI Yeezeevee? I dislike polemics.
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #73 - June 27, 2010, 01:17 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on June 27, 2010, 01:12 PM
    But i can trust FFI Yeezeevee? I dislike polemics.

    oops ..yes.. yes.. it is full of juice.. Forget ffi BD.,  let me enjoy the tube..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWPQDPFnSQ
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #74 - June 27, 2010, 02:53 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on June 27, 2010, 12:27 PM
    Nothing wrong with having sex with your slaves. Allah mandates it to be OK.


    As long as you are a man.  A woman having sex with her slave is "plain aberration" or "manifest error"(12:30)

    But in what way is it sense that you can only have 4 wives, but own as many sex slaves as you wish?
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #75 - June 27, 2010, 02:56 PM
    When did that verse about 4 wives come about?

    And when did Muhammad change it or have it changed  Roll Eyes to him having more than 4 wives?
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #76 - June 27, 2010, 02:56 PM
    Quote from: debunker on June 27, 2010, 05:00 AM
    stupid as ever, but anyway, let me try one last time:

    Chrales speaking, while being scientifically sound:

    "the sight of the sun when it appears to be rising or when it appears to be setting, is wonderful!"

    Idiotic, huh?  piggy


    The fact that most people believed the Earth was flat it is easy to see that humans in the future would think the Quran was man made.  So therefore adding the words "appeared to" makes sense with hindsight, or if you are God then "with omnipotence".

    The Quran says if it were from any other than Allah then it would contain errors.  It DOES contain errors, it just doesn't contain errors that Muslims are unable to make excuses for.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #77 - June 27, 2010, 02:58 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on June 27, 2010, 02:56 PM
    When did that verse about 4 wives come about?

    And when did Muhammad change it or have it changed  Roll Eyes to him having more than 4 wives?


    I don't recall the verses, but it says two, three, or four with regards to wives.  It also says that Muhammad can marry X,Y,Z but that it is a special permission to Muhammad.  Of course to prove you can marry your adopted son's wife you MUST have him divorce her and then marry her.  People were obviously so stupid that they didn't understand unless you acted it out, which makes me wonder why Muhammad didn't end his life by illegally killing someone so he could demonstrate the Islamic law about being crucified for murder.

    Yeah, right  Roll Eyes
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #78 - June 27, 2010, 03:02 PM
    Actually people weren't stupid. Most didn't follow Muhammad. And many apostatized afterwards.

    But he had great people's skills, was very intelligent and had great caliphs after him.
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #79 - June 27, 2010, 03:43 PM
    +1
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #80 - June 27, 2010, 03:52 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on June 27, 2010, 03:02 PM
    Actually people weren't stupid. Most didn't follow Muhammad. And many apostatized afterwards.

    But he had great people's skills, was very intelligent and had great caliphs after him.


    Sorry, I thought it was obvious that I was being facetious.  People often claim that Muhammad married that many people to make peace bonds with other communities, but in the scenario of his adopted son's wife this obviously does not apply (presumably he was not at war with Zayd) so the excuse is that Muhammad married Zaynab so demonstrate that it is okay to marry your ADOPTED son's ex-wife.

    Quite frankly, utter rubbish.  He did it because he couldn't control his pecker - that's why he had special permission from his alter ego (Allah) to have more than 4 wives.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #81 - June 27, 2010, 04:55 PM
    Don't you guys think that my take on "perspective" from which Allah speaks in the Quran has any merit?

    (Or am I really stupid? Thinking hard)
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #82 - June 27, 2010, 05:03 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on June 27, 2010, 04:55 PM
    Don't you guys think that my take on "perspective" from which Allah speaks in the Quran has any merit?

    (Or am I really stupid? Thinking hard)


    I don't quite understand your question.  All I know is that Mo screws up all over the place saying "He" and "Him" instead of "We" and "Us" - sometimes switching in the same verse.  Considering every word is supposed to be from God it's obviously wrong.

    Anyway, back later, he is going to the shop to by him some stuff for us.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #83 - June 27, 2010, 05:07 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on June 27, 2010, 05:03 PM
    I don't quite understand your question.  All I know is that Mo screws up all over the place saying "He" and "Him" instead of "We" and "Us" - sometimes switching in the same verse.  Considering every word is supposed to be from God it's obviously wrong.

    Anyway, back later, he is going to the shop to by him some stuff for us.



     Cheesy

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #84 - June 27, 2010, 05:12 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on June 27, 2010, 05:03 PM
    I don't quite understand your question.  All I know is that Mo screws up all over the place saying "He" and "Him" instead of "We" and "Us" - sometimes switching in the same verse.  Considering every word is supposed to be from God it's obviously wrong.

    Anyway, back later, he is going to the shop to by him some stuff for us.


     Cheesy nice
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #85 - June 27, 2010, 05:22 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on June 27, 2010, 02:53 PM
    As long as you are a man.  A woman having sex with her slave is "plain aberration" or "manifest error"(12:30)


    That's a feckin' good point
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #86 - June 27, 2010, 05:35 PM
    Quote from: debunker on June 27, 2010, 05:58 AM
    God uses whatever language the humans used to get the point across... as for that particular verse, you need to look it up (I provided the verse number).


    I don't know how more than a thousand years can be said to be "near" with respect to the end day Allah was talking about. You claimed that when Allah said end time was near, he was talking from his own perspective as thousands of human years are a very short duration for Allah.

    That is why I asked you if Allah speaks from his own perspective or from the humans' perspective in the Quran. If he goes on changing the perspectives, does he want to confuse us?

    And how do you really know which verse is spoken by him from whose perspective?
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #87 - June 27, 2010, 05:47 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on June 27, 2010, 05:35 PM
    he was talking from his own perspective as thousands of human years are a very short duration for Allah.


    God is eternal. In God's perspective EVERYTHING is near in terms of time - so what is this verse saying? Nothing!

    Unless it means the end is near in human terms, that IS saying something - unfortunately for debunker it is saying something incorrect.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #88 - June 27, 2010, 06:21 PM
    Quote
    God is eternal. In God's perspective EVERYTHING is near in terms of time - so what is this verse saying? Nothing!

    Unless it means the end is near in human terms, that IS saying something - unfortunately for debunker it is saying something incorrect.


    That is exactly what I have been talking about.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: Comments on Debunker and IA debate
     Reply #89 - June 27, 2010, 08:21 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on June 27, 2010, 06:21 PM
    That is exactly what I have been talking about.


    Which is why it is obviously bollocks, Debunker knows it too, it's too logically obvious for him not to know it.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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