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Theme Changer

 Topic: Islam in music

 (Read 9831 times)
  • Previous page 1 23 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #30 - June 27, 2010, 08:52 PM

    Supposedly only the Daf is allowed in Islam.

    (Clicky for piccy!)



    *Gasp*

    That daff has cymbals around the rim...  HARAAAAAMM!!!   Old geezer

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #31 - June 27, 2010, 08:53 PM

    and a lot of the Black Muslim rap artists in the US are orthodox sunni.

    a stupid question, why rap, why not rock, blues, jazz, punk, country, techno???
    they remind me of those fuckin' christian metal bands. honestly both are worst than the other. DAMN!!!!!

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #32 - June 27, 2010, 08:55 PM

    the problem is that islam  concentrate more on stupid rules that talk about how to wear, or which hobbies we shouldn't have(listening to music) than on the spirituality we should have


    It is exactly because of this attitude amongst most Muslims today that I left Islam.  I originally converted because I liked the spiritual, Sufi side of the religion but only after I had got entrenched in the religion and the community did I find out that most Muslims today are more literalist than spiritual.

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #33 - June 27, 2010, 09:13 PM

    It is exactly because of this attitude amongst most Muslims today that I left Islam.  I originally converted because I liked the spiritual, Sufi side of the religion but only after I had got entrenched in the religion and the community did I find out that most Muslims today are more literalist than spiritual.


    Even prayers are organized, by hours, by number of raquats, even the way to ask something to god, i never found any spirituality in islam!!

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #34 - June 27, 2010, 09:26 PM

    Looolllll !!!!!
    that's made me laugh french muslim rappers!!! a guy looking sheikh and a hijaby singin rap!!!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aUMkk3eEWc
    is that the come back of mohamed and aicha??

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #35 - June 27, 2010, 09:31 PM

    It is exactly because of this attitude amongst most Muslims today that I left Islam.  I originally converted because I liked the spiritual, Sufi side of the religion but only after I had got entrenched in the religion and the community did I find out that most Muslims today are more literalist than spiritual.


    I was quite literal as was the community I was involved in and the people were great. I don't think that taking the religion in a literal manner means that you aren't a spiritual person. I felt that we embodied the spiritual side of Islam in the good treatment of your fellow Muslim and upholding good muslim values.

    I'm just speaking from my own experience I don't know what you went through.

    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #36 - June 27, 2010, 09:33 PM

    a stupid question, why rap, why not rock, blues, jazz, punk, country, techno???
    they remind me of those fuckin' christian metal bands. honestly both are worst than the other. DAMN!!!!!

    i was wrong!!!! here are our muslim punks!!!!!!!!!!!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTkaqHhmpws

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #37 - June 27, 2010, 09:38 PM

    I felt that we embodied the spiritual side of Islam in the good treatment of your fellow Muslim and upholding good muslim values.

    That can be found everywhere it is normal that people of the same religion, or organisation help each other!! but, spirituality means the relation you have with god, i don't know but for me it is pretty hard to have good comunication with someone if i should talk with him in a strict organaized way.

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #38 - June 27, 2010, 09:41 PM

    that sound kinda interesting!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dROPwJF_O9Y
    check the other parts!!

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #39 - June 27, 2010, 09:41 PM

    That can be found everywhere it is normal that people of the same religion, or organisation help each other!! but, spirituality means the relation you have with god, i don't know but for me it is pretty hard to have good comunication with someone if i should talk with him in a strict organaized way.


    Youre right but you cant say people dont have a relationship with god because they take the religion literally. Especially when thats how Muhammad practiced the religion. I just get the feeling many believe you have to act like a flake with your head in the clouds all day to be spiritual.

    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #40 - June 27, 2010, 09:55 PM

    I just get the feeling many believe you have to act like a flake with your head in the clouds all day to be spiritual.

    no! you know when i still believed in god i used to pray my way (after the regular pray) i was talking to god like am talking with you right now in normal language, of course with respect, like a kid talking to a teacher, i was telling him everything the fact i was sure that he was listening to me made me feel better, since i'am an atheist i sometime miss those moments. you know sometimes you can feel the strength of nature, like when you're in a nice natural place, a forest, a beach, a mountain,...... that's what i think is god, it is the nature itself who created us, so during those moments it is like communiting with god, yeah like a prayer! that's why it is important that we maintain our natural environments, cause they are a part of ourselves.

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #41 - June 27, 2010, 09:59 PM

    You are entitled to your opinion but why do you then not question the validity of the hadith regarding prayer, fasting and hajj? (although the quote in question wasn't a hadith but an athar)


    i do/did. for example the Qur'an only says to pray regularly. when i was a Quran-only Muslim, i didn't think 5 times prayers were necessary and that a prayer could simply be sitting down quietly and thinking about God.


    Quote
    I just find it strange that Muslims have fucked up the religion from day one and only we today have figured out the right path. And the only way we figured out the right path is by questioning hadith based on our own desires and not their actual authenticity.


    the target of Quran-only Muslims is not to follow their own desires - you must trust me on this. it's about only following the rulings of islam that they are sure is from God i.e. the Qur'an, without following things that may have been invented by men. i'm sure there may be hadith that are correct - the problem is there is no way of telling which ones are true or not. any professional historian would not take them seriously as an account of history.

    Quote
    Although the hadith were only written down 200 years after muhammad's death they were preserved through oral tradition just the way the quran was. I don't see how people can question hadith and the actions of the salaf without then questioning the authenticity of the quran. (I personally chose to leave Islam rather than do this)



    The reason partly is because the Qur'an was written whilst the events themselves occured and hence are likely to be accurate. Muslims strongly beleive the Qur'an has been perfectly perserved although they accept that it was compiled as a book some decades after Muhammads death. Although we can't be certain whether the Qur'an was indeed perserved or not I have to say that most of the evidence suggest that it indeed was, and that if there were any changes they were just likely to be changes in dialect and language whilst the meaning has stayed the same. you will always get people saying that maybe Uthman did some editing etc. but to be honest no-one has ever provided any good evidence to back up claims of corruption.


    Now having said all this, I must stress that my current view is that the Qur'an was meant to be limited to 7th century Arabia and that it's message is no longer relevant for today (one of the reasons why i think that Muhammad didn't even bother compile it as a single book before he died) .

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #42 - June 27, 2010, 10:02 PM

    But the Quran says God has sent a messenger to every nation. When is our turn? We are a new nation.
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #43 - June 27, 2010, 10:05 PM

    Is that true that the qu'ran was compiled after mohamed's death??there where many copies and Abu Bakr choosed oneto be the real an destroyed the others?

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #44 - June 27, 2010, 10:05 PM

    But the Quran says God has sent a messenger to every nation. When is our turn? We are a new nation.

    Which nation?

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #45 - June 27, 2010, 10:10 PM


    Quote
    But the Quran says God has sent a messenger to every nation. When is our turn? We are a new nation.

    we don't get a turn - if Muhammad was indeed the last messenger, that must mean humans have reached the stage where we can rely on our souls and intelligence to decide on right/wrong without the need of any outside help from God - maybe this was always God's intention - that we evolve to this stage. that is if my crazy ass theory is correct of course. hehe

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #46 - June 27, 2010, 10:12 PM

    we don't get a turn - if Muhammad was indeed the last messenger, that must mean humans have reached the stage where we can rely on our souls and intelligence to decide on right/wrong without the need of any outside help from God - maybe this was always God's intention - that we evolve to this stage. that is if my crazy ass theory is correct of course. hehe

    so know if someone don't disagree with mohamed and the qu'ran but have a good reason for doing so it is ok?

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #47 - June 27, 2010, 10:12 PM

    Which nation?


    A global nation.
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #48 - June 27, 2010, 10:15 PM

    i do/did. for example the Qur'an only says to pray regularly. when i was a Quran-only Muslim, i didn't think 5 times prayers were necessary and that a prayer could simply be sitting down quietly and thinking about God.


    Wow man good post. You have some interesting ideas haha. I was even going to ask you about making your own prayer etc..

    Quote
    the target of Quran-only Muslims is not to follow their own desires - you must trust me on this. it's about only following the rulings of islam that they are sure is from God i.e. the Qur'an, without following things that may have been invented by men. i'm sure there may be hadith that are correct - the problem is there is no way of telling which ones are true or not. any professional historian would not take them seriously as an account of history.


    Interesting point and I see what you mean about the desires. But (im only speaking for myself here) I would be scared that I might fool myself into just takin what I want and leaving the rest. I dunno if you read my intro thread but I liked being a Muslim and I liked the community and my life isnt exactly better after leaving Islam. I thought about going down a similar road to this but I just couldnt do it.

    Quote
    The reason partly is because the Qur'an was written whilst the events themselves occured and hence are likely to be accurate. Muslims strongly beleive the Qur'an has been perfectly perserved although they accept that it was compiled as a book some decades after Muhammads death. Although we can't be certain whether the Qur'an was indeed perserved or not I have to say that most of the evidence suggest that it indeed was, and that if there were any changes they were just likely to be changes in dialect and language whilst the meaning has stayed the same. you will always get people saying that maybe Uthman did some editing etc. but to be honest no-one has ever provided any good evidence to back up claims of corruption.


    fair enough

    Quote
    Now having said all this, I must stress that my current view is that the Qur'an was meant to be limited to 7th century Arabia and that it's message is no longer relevant for today (one of the reasons why i think that Muhammad didn't even bother compile it as a single book before he died) .


    wow thats an interesting view for a muslim. But I also agree totally. there is too many thing and themes in it that would only be properly understood by the arabs at that time. (even the language) I felt it impossible for myself to properly understand the quran without hadith and tafsir. ( iwent through a couple examples of this in the mrasheed thread)

    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #49 - June 27, 2010, 10:16 PM

    But the Quran says God has sent a messenger to every nation. When is our turn? We are a new nation.


    youse trollin haha

    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #50 - June 27, 2010, 10:20 PM

    guys, you're going far from the original topic!!
    in order to maintain the topic(not just the qu'ran has to be maintained lol!) here is another video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83pF1SzCoVI

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #51 - June 27, 2010, 11:21 PM

    so know if someone don't disagree with mohamed and the qu'ran but have a good reason for doing so it is ok?


    if i am correct about the Qur'an, then it is obvious that a lot of the verses appear to be dealing with very specific situations at the time. some of the verses might seem morally suspect, however it's difficult for us to try and imagine in what context those particular verses were revealed. in addition we should remember that the morality of that time was rather primitive and that it was often a harsh and barabaric time and place - it's therefore a mistake to think that the same guidance would still be appropriate for todays society for example. therefore yes if we look at the 1400 year old Qur'an and find things we do not agree with, then it is ok to disregard and not follow those rulings. in fact we should no longer be looking to the Qur'an or any scripture at all for guidance.

    this would obviously mean that beleif in God is not required to avoid hell and get to heaven, assuming they exist. All you have to do is do good for the sake of good - by doing this you are submitting to God's will and hence God would consider you a submitter/Muslim. Indeed Islam simply means submission to peace. therefore it's even possible that God considers an atheist who is a good person a Submitter/Muslim.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #52 - June 28, 2010, 12:22 AM

    i do/did. for example the Qur'an only says to pray regularly. when i was a Quran-only Muslim, i didn't think 5 times prayers were necessary and that a prayer could simply be sitting down quietly and thinking about God.

    What are you now? and what do you think about prayers now?
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #53 - June 28, 2010, 09:22 AM

    this would obviously mean that beleif in God is not required to avoid hell and get to heaven, assuming they exist.

    but then revelations made by prophets like mohamed would be useless since they all said it was a must to believe in god
    All you have to do is do good for the sake of good

     yes That's what i'am tryn to do
    by doing this you are submitting to God's will and hence God would consider you a submitter/Muslim. Indeed Islam simply means submission to peace. therefore it's even possible that God considers an atheist who is a good person a Submitter/Muslim.

    Your point here is exactly what i think "true" god would be doing, since he wouldn't give a shit if human worship him or not, but i think the god of islam is not that easy and will never accept from an atheist, as it is an obligation to pray and follow the rules. Anyway where do you get those ideas from?? from you or there's some sources?

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #54 - June 28, 2010, 09:45 AM

    In his book, Al-Ahkam, Al-Qadi Abu Bakr Ibn Al-`Arabi says, “None of the hadiths maintaining that singing is prohibited are considered authentic (by the scholars of the Science of Hadith Methodology).” The same view is maintained by Al-Ghazali and Ibn An-Nahwi in Al-`Umdah. Ibn Tahir says, “Not even a single letter from all these Hadiths was proved to be authentic.”


    I read this somewhere. But I admit, I haven't done enough sufficient research into this issue.
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #55 - June 28, 2010, 10:08 AM


    `Ali Ibn Abu Talib says, “Amuse yourselves for some time, for if hearts are exposed to too much strain, they turn blind.”

    Abu Ad-Darda’ said, “I refresh myself with some amusement in order to make myself stronger on the path of right.”


    In my view, Islam does allow leisure and moderation for a Muslim as long as it does not lead to the point of leading the Muslim astray.
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #56 - June 28, 2010, 10:09 AM

    LOL I can tell you Ali was against music. Most of Shia Islam's scholars are against music. Even nasheeds. Any form of singing.
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #57 - June 28, 2010, 10:21 AM

    You damn Shias cut yourselves Me kidding Cheesy

    Imam Ash-Shawkani says in his book “Nayl Al-Awtar”, “The people of Madinah and those who agreed with them from among the Zahiriyyah and the Sufis maintain that singing is permissible, even when it is accompanied by a musical instrument such as the lute or the flute. Abu Mansur Al-Bughdadi Ash-Shafi`i narrate that `Abdullah Ibn Ja`far saw nothing wrong in singing, and he, himself, used to compose the music for his own slaves who used to sing these melodies in his presence. This took place during the time of Commander of the Faithful, `Ali Ibn Abi Talib. Abu Ja`far Al-Bughdadi narrates the same after Al-Qadi Shurayh, Sa`id Ibn Al-Musaiyb, `Ata’ Ibn Abu Rabah, Az-Zuhri and Ash-Shi`bi.”


    ___

    My point about quoting Ali is that Muslims should find time for leisure.

    I believe Muslims should be moderate, as long as they don't forget their religious duties.
  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #58 - June 28, 2010, 10:29 AM

    http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234928794-is-music-forbidden-in-shia-islam/

    Quote
    According to Ayatollah Sistani music that is used as entertainment and amusement gatherings is haraam. "Permissible music is the music that is not suitable for such gatherings, even if it does not soothe the nerves (emotional or mental state)..."


    Quote
    Hazrat Imam Ali ar-Reza (a.s.) remarks,
    "A person invites Divine wrath when in his house instruments like flute, drum and chess are played for forty days. If this man dies within these forty days, his death would be of a sinner and a transgressor. His place shall be in Hell. And what a dreadful place it is!"
    (Mustanad al Taraqi)

    The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) has stated,
    "A person who possesses a sitar, on the day of Qiyamat will be raised with a black face. His hands will be holding a sitar of fire. Seventy thousand angels with maces of fire will be hitting him on the face and the head. The singer will arise from his grave, blind, deaf and dumb. The adulterer will be similarly raised. The player of flute will also be made to rise in this way as will be the drum player."
    (Mustadrakul Wasael)

    Hazrat Imam Ali ar-Reza (a.s.) has said,
    "To listen to a musical instrument is one of the Greater Sins."
    (Mustadrakul Wasael)

    Amirul Momineen Ali (a.s.) says,
    "Angels do not even enter a house that has wine, drum, tambourine or a flute. Even the prayers of the inhabitants of this house are unacceptable. They are deprived of barakat."
    (Wasaelush Shia)

    The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) has also said,
    "The Almighty Allah has sent me as a mercy to the worlds, to guide the people. And He ordered me to eradicate the playing of flute and other instruments of music, all games of vice, idol (worship) and all practices of the days of ignorance."
    (Mustadrakul Wasael, Chapter 79)

    Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) reports from the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) that he said:
    "I prohibit for you dancing and playing flute, drums and tabla."
    (Al Kafi)

    Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) has also said,

    “Even learning to sing or play music and teaching it, to sing and play music, to be paid for these things or to be in any way engrossed in these vices is Haraam."
    (Tohafful Uqool)

    The sixth Holy Imam, Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) said,
    "Listening to music, songs and useless words cultivate hypocrisy in the heart, in the same way as algae grows in water."
    (Al Kafi)

    Al Kafi mentions a tradition of Imam as-Sadiq (a.s.) that,
    "Singing and music is a nest for the bird called hypocrisy."

    Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) says:

    "The house where music is played is not safe from sudden disasters. Supplications at such a place are not answered. Angels do not enter this place."

    The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) is quoted to have said:
    "Molten lead shall be poured into the ears of one who listens to songs, intently."
    (Mustadrakul Wasael)

    It is also narrated from Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) that he said,
    "Whenever a person begins singing, two satans mount on his shoulders and continue to hit their heels upon his chest, till the time he sings the song."

    Hazrat Imam Ali Ibn Musa ar-Reza (a.s.) said,
    "One who avoids songs shall be provided by Allah, a tree, which will produce such a melodious sound as has never been heard by anyone. But the one who has not kept himself aloof from songs will not be able to hear this sound."
    (Al Kafi)

    The following tradition of Allah's Messenger (s.a.w.s.) is recorded in the book Tafseer Majmaul Bayan,
    "One who has listened to too many songs will not be able to hear the Ruhaanis on the Day of Qiyamat."

    "Who are the Ruhaanis, O Prophet of Allah (s.a.w.s.)?" someone asked.

    The Prophet (s.a.w.s.) replied,
    "They are the melodious singers of Heaven."

    A similar tradition from Hazrat Ali (a.s.) is found in Nahjul Balagha,
    "Hazrat Dawood (a.s.) will be the chief of the singers of Paradise."
    (Nahjul Balagha)

    "The people will listen to such melodious songs from Hazrat Dawood (a.s.) in Heaven, the like of which have never been heard by anyone. However only those who have refrained from listening to songs in this world would be able to hear them."

    The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) said:
    "Singing is the stepping stone to fornication."
    (Mustadrakul Wasael)

    Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) says,
    "And all those wasteful pastimes are haraam which make one forgetful of Allah; like songs and playing musical instruments."

    The traditions concerning the signs of the last stage before the Zuhoor of our Imam (a.s.) mention music:

    "And you shall see that music will be so prevalent that no one will dissuade others nor will he find in himself the need to do so. And you shall see that music would be openly played even in the two sanctuaries (the city of Makkah and Madinah)."
    (Mustanade Naraqi)

  • Re: Islam in music
     Reply #59 - June 28, 2010, 10:40 AM

    Quote
    4. Islam has declared excessiveness as prohibited in everything. The same goes for excessiveness in leisure and recreation even though these things are permissible ! This indicates that the emptiness of the mind and heart has to be observed and tackled during man’s short-term life. One should know that Allah Almighty will ask every one about his life and his youth in particular.

    There are some things in which one is to be his own judge and Mufti. If there is some kind of singing that arouses his own lust or desire, and takes him away from the real life, he should avoid it then and block that very gate from which the winds of trial and seduction may come and erase his religion, morals and heart. If he does this, he will live in peace and tranquility.


    __________________________________________________________________

    Excessiveness is prohibited in everything.

    As a muslim, I prefer being moderate in most aspects and not hurt my brain about being too strict. I like being moderate in worship, being moderate in leisure and being moderate in my social life.

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