@ DD
Oh God! That's what salafis do all the time! "It's been abrogated!" Ok, prove to me it's been abrogated. And by the way, allowing drinking wine was NOT abrogated... The Quran simply didn't say anything about its being Halal, instead it gradually outlawed it. It' not like the Quran said: "Wine is Halah for you!".
eyyyyyyyy man.
Before we even get into the issue of it being abrogated lets not dodge the main issue. Even if this verse was up to date it only refers to ahl-ul-kitaab.
You said that people who did not even believe in God will not be sent to hell. This verse does not apply to them so it would be unfair to use it as evidence.
(give me a little time to deal with the abrogation issue for anyone else who might be reading)
I said only those who *sincerely* didn't believe. I was *extrapolating*. Like the Christians/Jews don't even have to believe in the Quran in order to avoid Hell, and like people who never knew anything about God's religion don't go to Hell, and based on the numerous verses that link Hell to pride, I came to the conclusion that only pride-based disbelief leads to Hell.
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
Interesting! You say "pending the fact they received a *clear* message"? What if someone *sincerely* finds the concepts adopted by Islam unclear at all? Or that they don't make any sense? How's that different from not receiving a clear message?
The fact that someone doesn't find the message they received to be clear doesn't mean the message wasn't delivered in a clear way.
For instance you said the evidences of the existance of a Creator God are clear when you were speaking with hassan. (i agree with you btw and also believe in God)
Hassan and Islame for example don't find these evidences as clear as you or I. Does this mean that there is no clear evidence of a Creator God?
Actually no one knows what the Heights are.. The Mufassirin only speculate (and they bring quite laughable and amazingly stupid interpretations)... in fact, for the most part, when it comes to vague verses, Mufassirin are merely speculating (and they suck at it).
fair enough.
Yes. Just like someone who lived stranded in an island all their life or someone who didn't receive a clear message as you said.
Would you say hassan and Islame have received a clear message?
The test is about pride. God only punishes the proud. Satan's only sin was pride, btw, and like Satan (when he erred for the first time) the proud think they'd get away with their pride somehow. (something like when we all postpone the idea that one day we'll be dead, we're really coping with the notion of death by pretending it won't happen unless after eternity of living).
right. but his disbelief is different than any human being. He literally spoke with Allah and knows for a certainty of his existence but chose to disobey anyways (out of pride)
Are you saying Iblis doesn't know he will end up in the hellfire? because there is clear evidence from the quran that he does?
I don't see how any human could commit a sin similar to his because we will never speak with Allah.
Topic: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)