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 Topic: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)

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  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #210 - June 28, 2010, 05:47 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on June 28, 2010, 05:30 PM
    That's because this is the only way (we know of) that supports sentient life that can ask questions like you do.

    Debunker, there are billions upon billions of planets in the universe. An unimaginable number. What's the chance of a single planet harbouring conditions that are favourable to life (again, as we know it)?

    On top of that some of these conditions are interdependent - iron core and magnetic field for example.

    But I have to admit that those are speculations only. But at least I am not pretending to have a definitive answer.


    I thought, and correct me if I'm wrong, planets are very rare in the universe and what we have are overwhelmingly burning stars.

    True, some of these conditions are interdepenent but their interdependence doesn't always increase the odds (sometimes they lower the odds, that's why I prefer to assume they're simply indepenent).

    And again, assuming indepenence (for simplicity), the chances of all these highly unlikely conditions to be available in one planet are even infinitely unlikely.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #211 - June 28, 2010, 05:48 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on June 28, 2010, 05:47 PM
    I just try to point out the obvious holes in the arguments. This hole just debunked the point you were trying to make.


    LOL! No, you know the point I was trying to make is: If the atmosphere weren't thick enough, we'd end up dead tomorrow.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #212 - June 28, 2010, 05:51 PM
    Quote from: debunker on June 28, 2010, 05:39 PM
    @ DD


    Before we continue could you please concede that verse 3:64 does not apply to atheists?

    Quote
    regarding Hassan and Islame, I don't know what's in their hearts, but honestly, when it comes to the Creator God (not necessarily the Quranic God), I can't help but think they're in denial.


    I'm not trying to speculate on their case either... I'm just saying can we agree that just because people don't understand a message clearly that doesn't mean they didn't receive a clear message?

    Quote
    Anyway, now you said:
    Satan when he acted upon his pride and refused to bow before Adam, he didn't know he'd go to Hell. And I think when he even admitted that his pride is why he disobeyed he thought that somehow he'd get away with it and that God won't banish himlike this. He was so full of himself he thought that somehow he'll end up Ok... it was a big shock for poor Satan to realize his doomed fate and that he actually didn't get away with it. That's why he begged God to stay and seduce men.. He wanted to take as many of them with him to Hell as possible. (God agreed because because He created man with the ability to choose, anyway)


    So we agree that at this point Satan knows hell is his destination?

    I'm really curious as to who you consider to disbelieve out of pride/arrogance (among mankind)

    What do you think the situation of Abu Talib is?
    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #213 - June 28, 2010, 05:55 PM
    Quote
    LOL! No, you know the point I was trying to make is: If the atmosphere weren't thick enough, we'd end up dead tomorrow.


    And the point I made was that the thickness is not enough; we could really be dead tomorrow just as the dinosaurs did.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #214 - June 28, 2010, 05:59 PM
    Quote from: debunker on June 28, 2010, 05:39 PM
    regarding Hassan and Islame, I don't know what's in their hearts, but honestly, when it comes to the Creator God (not necessarily the Quranic God), I can't help but think they're in denial.

    I am not denial.  I feel the same way about that question as knowing the brand of your computer.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #215 - June 28, 2010, 06:04 PM
    Quote from: debunker on June 28, 2010, 05:02 PM
    how about the little ones

    So whats your view on Tsunami, volcanoes, 5 mass extinctions, comets etc

    Does this also come into the creators "protection" as you call it. 

    Or does that only occur when we dont makes prayers for his protection racket?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #216 - June 28, 2010, 06:05 PM
    @ DD

    Quote
    Before we continue could you please concede that verse 3:64 does not apply to atheists?


    No, it doesn't but I already explained how I reached my conclusion.

    In any case, the test is all about pride.


    Quote
    I'm not trying to speculate on their case either... I'm just saying can we agree that just because people don't understand a message clearly that doesn't mean they didn't receive a clear message?


    I agree. But I was saying that ultimately what we're held accountable for is when the message becomes clear (convincing) to us and we reject it out of pride.

    Quote
    So we agree that at this point Satan knows hell is his destination?


    Yes, but before he said "no I won't bow down to Adam because I'm better", the poor thing expected he'd get away with it (he must have thought God would let it go or something like that).

    Quote
    I'm really curious as to who you consider to disbelieve out of pride/arrogance (among mankind)
    What do you think the situation of Abu Talib is?


    The Pharoah, for example. In fact, one of the pride verses I listed above is about the Pharoah's pride-based disbelief... the Quran says that they, the Egyptians, while truly believing in the great signs of Moses (blood, etc) they still rejected/dismissed these signs.

    How about you read that long thread I referred you to?
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #217 - June 28, 2010, 06:08 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on June 28, 2010, 05:55 PM
    And the point I made was that the thickness is not enough; we could really be dead tomorrow just as the dinosaurs did.


    Yet, we aren't! And that's I've been saying all along... we are meant to be here, against ALL the odds, we are still here.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #218 - June 28, 2010, 06:10 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on June 28, 2010, 06:04 PM
    So whats your view on Tsunami, volcanoes, 5 mass extinctions, comets etc

    Does this also come into the creators "protection" as you call it. 

    Or does that only occur when we dont makes prayers for his protection racket?



    Tsunamis, plagues, etc are all part of the yuckiness of life.. this no paradise we live in. It's mean to be a burden and difficult.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #219 - June 28, 2010, 06:14 PM
    Quote from: debunker on June 28, 2010, 05:47 PM
    I thought, and correct me if I'm wrong, planets are very rare in the universe and what we have are overwhelmingly burning stars.

    Afaik most systems have planets. Problem is that extra-solar planets are much harder to detect when compared to their starts because they don't give off enough light.

    Quote from: debunker on June 28, 2010, 05:47 PM
    And again, assuming indepenence (for simplicity), the chances of all these highly unlikely conditions to be available in one planet are even infinitely unlikely.

    I don't think so. The basic conditions are planet's composition and distance from the star it orbits. Basic life building elements should be abundant on planets all over the universe because all planets are made from remnants of stars which do synthesise all elements.
    On top of that life on other planets could have a completely different chemistry, not necessarily carbon based one. The possibilities are endless.
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #220 - June 28, 2010, 06:19 PM
    @ Kenan

    I'll check the abundance of planets in the universe later (although I'm pretty sure they're very rare, but that's not important the odds are still staggering even without this fact).

    Are you saying that if life was not carbon-based, a thick atmosphere, strong mag. field, moderate temperatures, etc, etc could be unncessary to support such life?  
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #221 - June 28, 2010, 06:21 PM
    How many planets are out there? First Results from Kepler!

    Discussed here already http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=10837.0
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #222 - June 28, 2010, 06:22 PM
    Anyway, gotta go...  (I hope Charles won't say, debunker is running away from discussions because he should have no life and respond to at least 10 people every single day).
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #223 - June 28, 2010, 06:23 PM
    Quote from: allat on June 28, 2010, 06:21 PM
    How many planets are out there? First Results from Kepler!

    Discussed here already http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=10837.0


    like I said, it's only one of many factors... but thanks for correcting my misconception regarding planets.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #224 - June 28, 2010, 06:24 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dilKJ6uLCc8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBkaP7EY5Us
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #225 - June 28, 2010, 06:25 PM
    Quote from: debunker on June 28, 2010, 06:19 PM
    Are you saying that if life was not carbon-based, a thick atmosphere, strong mag. field, moderate temperatures, etc, etc could be unncessary to support such life?  

    Definitely. Even on earth there is life @94 degrees C, organism that live under extreme pressure, organisms that live in extreme pH conditions and so forth ...
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #226 - June 28, 2010, 06:26 PM
    Quote from: debunker on June 28, 2010, 06:05 PM
    @ DD

    No, it doesn't but I already explained how I reached my conclusion.


    Ok thanks

    Quote
    I agree. But I was saying that ultimately what we're held accountable for is when the message becomes clear (convincing) to us and we reject it out of pride.


    So if I understand correctly you don't believe Hassan and Islame to be rejecting the message out pride/arrogance even though you feel they have received a clear message?

    Quote
    The Pharoah, for example. In fact, one of the pride verses I listed above is about the Pharoah's pride-based disbelief... the Quran says that they, the Egyptians, while truly believing in the great signs of Moses (blood, etc) they still rejected/dismissed these signs.


    Yea pharoah is a perfect example of pride/arrogance.

    But could you please tell me what you think the situation of Abu Talib is?

    Quote
    How about you read that long thread I referred you to?


    i will you need to give me some time though
    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #227 - June 28, 2010, 06:27 PM
    Quote from: debunker on June 28, 2010, 05:24 PM
    @ Q-man

    So you accept that when unlikely events intersect, the unlikeliness of their intersection is even greater.

    We can keep going with planet Earth, for example, it's a bit too convenient for it be situated just at the right distance from the sun so that it isn't either a blazing inferno nor an ice cube.

    It's a bit too convenient for our planet to have enough iron in its core for a strong magetic field that just so hapens to be strong enough to repel the solar winds... 

    and so on and so forth until we realize that planet Earth was meant to be, against all the infinitely monumental odds.


    Assuming these estimates are true: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_known_planets_are_in_the_universe --given how many planets there are in the universe, the odds seem less monumental that one planet out of all of those would end up in the right position to sustain life.

    For me to win the Powerball lottery, the odds are one in 195 million. Now if I were to win off of a single ticket, you would consider that amazingly good luck, but considering the fact that several millions of these tickets are sold every week, you would not consider it so amazing that someone won the grand prize in a given drawing.
    fuck you
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #228 - June 28, 2010, 06:28 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on June 28, 2010, 06:25 PM
    Defiantly. Even on earth there is life @94 degrees C, organism that live under extreme pressure, organisms that live in extreme pH conditions and so forth ...

    I don't think that answers the question of debunker., I am sure you know the life at High pH or Low pH., High temp or low temp is still carbon based

    Quote
    debunker : Are you saying that if life was NOT  carbon-based, a thick atmosphere, strong mag. field, moderate temperatures, etc, etc could be unncessary to support such life?  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #229 - June 28, 2010, 06:31 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on June 28, 2010, 06:28 PM
    I am sure you know the life at High pH or Low pH., High temp or low temp is still carbon based

    Actually that is my point precisely. Even carbon based life forms that are on average well adjusted to moderate conditions can evolve in such a way that makes them resilient to extreme conditions.
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #230 - June 28, 2010, 06:33 PM
    @ Qman

    Quote
    For me to win the Powerball lottery, the odds are one in 195 million. Now if I were to win off of a single ticket, you would consider that amazingly good luck, but considering the fact that several millions of these tickets are sold every week, you would not consider it so amazing that someone won the grand prize in a given drawing.


    What are the odds for someone (anyone) winning the Powerball lottery? (I really don't know anything about lotteries so that's a question I don't know the answer to).
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #231 - June 28, 2010, 06:34 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on June 28, 2010, 06:27 PM
    For me to win the Powerball lottery, the odds are one in 195 million. Now if I were to win off of a single ticket, you would consider that amazingly good luck, but considering the fact that several millions of these tickets are sold every week, you would not consider it so amazing that someone won the grand prize in a given drawing.

    Good point. Furthermore, somebody almost always wins the grand prize in any given drawing.
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #232 - June 28, 2010, 06:35 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on June 28, 2010, 06:31 PM
    Actually that is my point precisely. Even carbon based life forms that are on average well adjusted to moderate conditions can evolve in such a way that makes them resilient to extreme conditions.


    Please Kenan, are you saying that life could exist in a blazing inferno? (which many planets are). Sure life exists in extreme conditions but there are limits.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #233 - June 28, 2010, 06:36 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on June 28, 2010, 06:34 PM
    Good point. Furthermore, somebody almost always wins the grand prize in any given drawing.


    Are you saying that the chances for the grand prize to be won are almost always 100%?
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #234 - June 28, 2010, 06:37 PM
    Quote from: debunker on June 28, 2010, 06:10 PM

    Tsunamis, plagues, etc are all part of the yuckiness of life.. this no paradise we live in. It's mean to be a burden and difficult.


    I thought you were trying to argue about perfectness of this world (fine-tuned universe argument) just a few posts ago by talking about protective blanket.

    If this world is not perfect, your arguments of "fine tuned world" don't hold good. And if this world is perfect, well you know that it isn't.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #235 - June 28, 2010, 06:37 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on June 28, 2010, 06:31 PM
    Actually that is my point precisely. Even carbon based life forms that are on average well adjusted to moderate conditions can evolve in such a way that makes them resilient to extreme conditions.

    We have to realize that those extreme conditions have some limits, We  are not going get life on frying pans at 500 degree centigrade or  in 90% sulfuric acid medium.
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #236 - June 28, 2010, 06:38 PM
    Quote from: debunker on June 28, 2010, 06:33 PM
    @ Qman

    What are the odds for someone (anyone) winning the Powerball lottery? (I really don't know anything about lotteries so that's a question I don't know the answer to).


    Anyone? I'd have to know exactly what the mean of tickets sold on a twice weekly basis is in order to calculate that, and I don't know. I know the odds of a single ticket are 1 in 195 million, and several millions of tickets are sold each week.

    Quote from: Kenan on June 28, 2010, 06:34 PM
    Good point. Furthermore, somebody almost always wins the grand prize in any given drawing.


    Eh, not true in Powerball. Sometimes the jackpot will roll over several weeks in a row. That's how you end up 250 million dollar jackpots-- they normally start around 20 million.
    fuck you
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #237 - June 28, 2010, 06:41 PM
    Quote from: debunker on June 28, 2010, 06:22 PM
    Anyway, gotta go...  (I hope Charles won't say, debunker is running away from discussions because he should have no life and respond to at least 10 people every single day).


    LOL.  far away hug
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #238 - June 28, 2010, 06:41 PM
    Quote from: DigDug on June 28, 2010, 06:26 PM

    So if I understand correctly you don't believe Hassan and Islame to be rejecting the message out pride/arrogance even though you feel they have received a clear message?


    no. I think they're simply not convinced.

    Quote
    Yea pharoah is a perfect example of pride/arrogance.

    But could you please tell me what you think the situation of Abu Talib is?

    I don't have enough info about him.. but why name specific names? Have you even checked a single verse I listed about pride-based disbelief? Meccan pagans were accused of pride, the majority of verses speaking of Hell mention pride.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: I'm officially an Ex-Muslimah :)
     Reply #239 - June 28, 2010, 06:42 PM
    How Many Stars Are There in the Universe?

    http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/Extraterrestrial%20life.htm
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
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