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 Topic: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??

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  • Re: what do muslim women think about liberal men??
     Reply #30 - July 01, 2010, 07:37 PM
    Stockholm syndrome really, really close, but there is a more accurate description in the sense they accept something that they haven't yet suffered over and genuinely are deceived to think it is the right to not be equals.

    Interesting anecdote ras111
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  • Re: what do muslim women think about liberal men??
     Reply #31 - July 01, 2010, 07:38 PM
    brainwashing?
  • Re: what do muslim women think about liberal men??
     Reply #32 - July 01, 2010, 07:43 PM
    Haha, that's such an umbrealla term! Tongue Hmm okay time to do some Googling ...
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  • Re: what do muslim women think about liberal men??
     Reply #33 - July 01, 2010, 07:44 PM
    Inequality acceptance?

    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/328/5982/1176
  • Re: what do muslim women think about liberal men??
     Reply #34 - July 01, 2010, 08:08 PM
    Good find! I think that is it ... just like servants in the 3rd world expect not to do well in life and their caste values tells them this is the case and they should be happy about it.

    I was looking up these though I think I was barking up the wrong tree:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority (i.e. to Allah)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition (i.e. that's the way it is)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences (i.e. I wont get to heaven otherwise)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_fear (i.e. to themselves, that they'll go to hell)
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  • Re: what do muslim women think about liberal men??
     Reply #35 - July 01, 2010, 08:10 PM
    I think those are all involved in inequality acceptance though tbh, HO so you were not.
  • Re: what do muslim women think about liberal men??
     Reply #36 - July 01, 2010, 08:24 PM
    Quote from: HighOctane on July 01, 2010, 06:51 PM
    ateapotist: What's your analysis of this phenomena? I read something a while back explains this ... can't find it ... mind-block moment ... anyone up for some digging? Starting points:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

    I was thinking of a codependency relationship.  They get security and safety in return for their loss of freedom etc. wacko  and they fear any radical/unknown change to their situation, maybe. Huh? and they don't have to make any difficult decisions in life.

    But I'm no expert, and I think Allat made a good point as follows:

    Quote from: allat on June 30, 2010, 03:37 PM
    Same reason people in various parts of the US and other places, often vote against their own best interests: (1) They are programmed by those with more power/influence to think their own best interest is not their own best interest. And (2) They do it out of habit/tradition because they've been programmed to believe that changing those things are beyond their capabilities.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

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  • Re: what do muslim women think about liberal men??
     Reply #37 - July 01, 2010, 08:27 PM
    I think therefore its a mix of mine and ateas posts.
  • Re: what do muslim women think about liberal men??
     Reply #38 - July 01, 2010, 08:45 PM
    Quote from: HighOctane on July 01, 2010, 08:08 PM
    Good find! I think that is it ... just like servants in the 3rd world expect not to do well in life and their caste values tells them this is the case and they should be happy about it.

    I was looking up these though I think I was barking up the wrong tree:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority (i.e. to Allah)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition (i.e. that's the way it is)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences (i.e. I wont get to heaven otherwise)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_fear (i.e. to themselves, that they'll go to hell)

    Wow !! this look pretty detailed, very interesting!! this is a sort of brainwashing that hit many points from the fear of bad consequences to making them used of being forced to think by someone else.
    Maybe it is not really that they take kind guys as fools, but they find them scary as they're not able to find the support that they find in other guys who are thinking at their place, here they are forced to do their own part of the thinking and taking decisions.
    As for stockholm syndrome it has a little of that, but don't you think it is also has a cultural part?? they are thinking something like"we're best than those european bit**es we don't need freedom we are pround of being loyal women!" ?
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: what do muslim women think about liberal men??
     Reply #39 - July 01, 2010, 08:54 PM
    Quote from: kero-zen on July 01, 2010, 08:45 PM
    Maybe it is not really that they take kind guys as fools, but they find them scary as they're not able to find the support that they find in other guys who are thinking at their place, here they are forced to do their own part of the thinking and taking decisions.


    There is another two threads on this forum about women finding men scary that highlights this fear in men.

    Quote from: ateapotist on July 01, 2010, 08:24 PM
    I think Allat made a good point as follows:


    Yes Allat made two good points, I was just trying to get more technical about it for kicks! Codependency ... very interesting ... hmmm ....

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  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #40 - July 01, 2010, 08:55 PM
    I also agree on the security/submissiveness exchange. In a highly patriarchal society, women gain power through security which they gain through being submissive to men. Women (and men) raised in such a system, taught to believe it is a better system than one based on individual rights and freedoms and innovation, would feel unable to function in a system that by all accounts actually gives them more options, more freedom, more rights than the patriarchal system.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #41 - July 01, 2010, 09:27 PM
    Quote from: allat on July 01, 2010, 08:55 PM
    I also agree on the security/submissiveness exchange. In a highly patriarchal society, women gain power through security which they gain through being submissive to men. Women (and men) raised in such a system, taught to believe it is a better system than one based on individual rights and freedoms and innovation, would feel unable to function in a system that by all accounts actually gives them more options, more freedom, more rights than the patriarchal system.

    A kind of social approval, they need to conform to what their education told them to be in order to feel in secure with their own people, it is a kind of fear of the unknown system where everything is certainly "dangerous" and also a fear to change and being rejected by their own people, maybe but i also think it is deeper, they have a sort of pride of being that way, they're thinking it is the way everyone SHOULD be, they're taking themselves as examples that other have to follow, it is in my opinion the main reason why the reject a better way of life and better relationships even if themselves knows that it would be better for them.
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #42 - July 01, 2010, 09:32 PM
    Oh yes the supremacism is built into any dogmatic system that requires people to *not* judge the system, just follow it blindly, without question. The people then internalize the supremacist thinking and start to believe they are living a superior lifestyle compared to everyone else, even if they are drinking camel piss for tea.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #43 - July 01, 2010, 09:42 PM
    Quote from: kero-zen on July 01, 2010, 04:22 PM
    If you are an apostat you sure have something against islam, maybe only because due to it's doctrine you should be killed.I know!, it is sad!! what can i do if all the girls i know think that i'am weak?? Cry i think that i should try to act more like a bad boy. From now i will never treat women good again and they'll all fall to my feets  cool2


    I've talked with a lot of people who read stuff different than I do (more peacefully, liberal and tolerant).
    I never agree with them, but if that's what Islam is for them, I have nothing against it...
    That's what I meant... =)

    About being a bad boy... Don't try it.
    Even if you get the girl, you'll feel unhappy and it will be a waste of time because it'll end in a few weeks.
    Same goes for relationships based on money or the looks of a person. (Experience =P)
    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ExMuslims
    Council of Ex-Muslims of the Netherlands will be back!

    Never doubt that a small group of commited people can change te world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -Margaret Mead
  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #44 - July 05, 2010, 08:09 PM
    Quote from: Farid92 on July 01, 2010, 09:42 PM
    I've talked with a lot of people who read stuff different than I do (more peacefully, liberal and tolerant).
    I never agree with them, but if that's what Islam is for them, I have nothing against it...
    That's what I meant... =)

    The problem is that their religion don't really exists as it is not the "true" islam but their islam
    Quote from: Farid92 on July 01, 2010, 09:42 PM
    About being a bad boy... Don't try it.
    Even if you get the girl, you'll feel unhappy and it will be a waste of time because it'll end in a few weeks.
    Same goes for relationships based on money or the looks of a person. (Experience =P)

    I know, i wasn't serious  Smiley
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
    "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "
    --Buddha
  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #45 - July 05, 2010, 08:24 PM
    sure are alot of MEN who have "opinions" about this! LOL
    when i wa a muslim, secular men were off limits.  I wouldnt
    even acknowledge them.  Secretly i was very much still attracted
    to them, but kept a halal tunnel vision (kicks myself yet again!!!)
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #46 - July 06, 2010, 05:02 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 29, 2010, 10:45 PM
    Some Muslim women like a man to be - let's say - a little misogynistic


    Open secret, but a lot of women like that. Perhaps even the majority.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #47 - July 06, 2010, 07:50 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on July 06, 2010, 05:02 PM
    Open secret, but a lot of women like that. Perhaps even the majority.

    And who let you in on this secret, Turtle?
  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #48 - July 06, 2010, 07:53 PM
    Ur mom did. She always asks me to pull her hair.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #49 - July 06, 2010, 08:35 PM
    Is that before of after she fucked you with a strap-on?

    That was her agreement with my dad after she caught him fucking your mother inside the Oil Refinery in Baiji. She gets to sleep with guys as long as 1)they are self-loathing gays 2)she fucks them with strap-on.
     
    But seriously, your mother is a legend around the Iraqi National Oil Company. You should get one of those DNA paternity tests. After all, it was you who said you look more Iraqi than Bengali. We might be half-bros, bro Wink
  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #50 - July 06, 2010, 08:48 PM
    Ooh, wow. Real life references? Seriously? Your a bit too sensitive to the mom jokes perhaps? Is it the arab/muslim hang-up? I mean this is the internet right?

    Anyways, I'll let you sort that issue out, all wounds heal with time brother.

    Btw, I was conceived in Kuwait.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #51 - July 06, 2010, 08:51 PM
    @Iblis
     
    Cheesy

    YOU GOT OWNED!!!
  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #52 - July 06, 2010, 08:53 PM
    Honestly, maybe a bit. But it was way too long winded.  Especially given the throwaway comment it's directed at.

    And the real life references is frankly a bit lame. I believe that info was originally in Valhalla. So it's also pretty unethical. Iraqi-Atheist lost a few points here.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #53 - July 06, 2010, 09:24 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on July 06, 2010, 08:48 PM
    Your a bit too sensitive to the mom jokes perhaps?

    I'm sensitive to your uncalled-for comments.


    Quote from: Iblis on July 06, 2010, 08:48 PM
    Is it the arab/muslim hang-up?

    Erm, where you come from, do you joke about fucking each other's mum and pulling their hair?  Huh?


    Quote from: Iblis on July 06, 2010, 08:48 PM
    Anyways, I'll let you sort that issue out, all wounds heal with time brother.

    Thanks, will do. Start with yourself.


    Quote from: Iblis on July 06, 2010, 08:48 PM
    Btw, I was conceived in Kuwait.

    Like I said, it was you who said it. Anyway, relax. It was a joke.


    Quote from: Iblis on July 06, 2010, 08:53 PM
    I believe that info was originally in Valhalla.

    Sorry. Didn't know that. Do you want me to remove my post now?


    Quote from: Iblis on July 06, 2010, 08:53 PM
    So it's also pretty unethical. Iraqi-Atheist lost a few points here.

    You started it.
  • Re: What Do Muslim Women Think About Liberal Men??
     Reply #54 - July 07, 2010, 02:38 PM
    HighOctane... slaves here in the US were called "uncle tom"
    for that very same attitude, behavior, and kissing ass to their
    "masters"
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
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