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 Topic: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL

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  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #90 - July 10, 2010, 03:09 PM
    I don't know whether I would have turned him in or attempted to beat the living shit out of him myself given the opportunity. He shot a woman for having the audacity to end a relationship; his hatred for the police was driven by a personal grudge. The cop he killed was off-duty, out of uniform and acting in a personal capacity to protect someone he cared about. Sing Harry Roberts to the tune of London Bridge all you like - Moat wasn't a working class hero - every kid who has been stopped and searched, harrassed by police because they fit a certain ethnic profile or beaten down by police trungeons during demonstrations is a hero in my eyes. I don't feel the need to contort a situation to fit my ideological leanings.

    Anyway, I'm back to negotiating a truce with the Taliban: As long as they clamp down on terrorist training camps I'll ignore their abuse of women.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #91 - July 10, 2010, 03:27 PM
    Quote from: thinkfree on July 10, 2010, 03:09 PM
    I don't feel the need to contort a situation to fit my ideological leanings.


     Roll Eyes Nor do I. All I did was state how I feel about the situation, that I wouldn't turn him in and that I normally cheer for fugitives. This isn't ideological, it's just how I feel. I hate cops and I almost always want the "bad guy" fugitive who's the subject of a massive, nationwide manhunt to escape. There is no real ideological justification for it, I understand that it's a meaningless and stupid sort of rebellious spirit, no different than the White guy who really isn't racist but has a Confederate flag because for him it represents "rebellion", can't really articulate it, and doesn't really give a second thought to the history behind the flag.

    What I don't understand is why all you fuckers are getting your fuckin panties in a bunch over the personal feelings about Raoul Moat of some guy living in the US who has nothing to fucking do with Raoul Moat and doesn't effect your lives or the lives of your loved ones or anyone you know one fuckin bit. I get it-- all of you agree with the vast majority of people in the UK that Raoul Moat, besides having a wicked cool name, was a piece of shit who deserved to be caught, and I'm the only one here who seems to disagree.

    I don't know, is there some psychological thing that makes you all feel comfortable and warm and fuzzy condemning the "bad guy" and getting upset with the one guy who has a dissenting opinion on the topic? Geez. Fuck it, I'm changing my avatar just to annoy you fuckers more.
    fuck you
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #92 - July 10, 2010, 04:10 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 10, 2010, 03:27 PM
    Roll Eyes Nor do I. All I did was state how I feel about the situation, that I wouldn't turn him in and that I normally cheer for fugitives. This isn't ideological, it's just how I feel. I hate cops and I almost always want the "bad guy" fugitive who's the subject of a massive, nationwide manhunt to escape. There is no real ideological justification for it, I understand that it's a meaningless and stupid sort of rebellious spirit, no different than the White guy who really isn't racist but has a Confederate flag because for him it represents "rebellion", can't really articulate it, and doesn't really give a second thought to the history behind the flag.

    What I don't understand is why all you fuckers are getting your fuckin panties in a bunch over the personal feelings about Raoul Moat of some guy living in the US who has nothing to fucking do with Raoul Moat and doesn't effect your lives or the lives of your loved ones or anyone you know one fuckin bit. I get it-- all of you agree with the vast majority of people in the UK that Raoul Moat, besides having a wicked cool name, was a piece of shit who deserved to be caught, and I'm the only one here who seems to disagree.

    I don't know, is there some psychological thing that makes you all feel comfortable and warm and fuzzy condemning the "bad guy" and getting upset with the one guy who has a dissenting opinion on the topic? Geez. Fuck it, I'm changing my avatar just to annoy you fuckers more.

    It doesn't annoy me. It's a bit like my feelings about Osama bin Laden; I don't get why people in US can't see why I admire him as a fugitive of the neo-imperialists, regarless that he may have had a hand in the murder of thousands of Americans. It's just kinda funny. lol
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #93 - July 10, 2010, 04:13 PM
    Sarcasm ain't your strong suit, kid.
    fuck you
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #94 - July 10, 2010, 04:17 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 10, 2010, 04:13 PM
    Sarcasm ain't your strong suit, kid.

    ... and intellect obviously isn't yours, homie.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #95 - July 10, 2010, 04:18 PM
    Unnecessarily nasty.
    fuck you
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #96 - July 10, 2010, 04:19 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 10, 2010, 04:18 PM
    Unnecessarily nasty.

    Vegan kisses all over your Raoul.  Kiss
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #97 - July 10, 2010, 04:20 PM
    You could try being respectful.
    fuck you
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #98 - July 10, 2010, 04:21 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 10, 2010, 04:20 PM
    You could try being respectful.

    I'm no Islamaphobe, dude.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #99 - July 10, 2010, 04:21 PM
    What?
    fuck you
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #100 - July 10, 2010, 05:40 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 10, 2010, 02:24 PM
    Where did I say that?


    How did I know you were going to ask that? You always do. You tend to forget everything you say. But then again, how would I know? I know nothing about you...

    Quote
    You're also an expert at being annoying, arrogant, judgmental and getting under people's skin, cause you are really starting to piss me off.


    Honestly, that's good to know  Afro
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #101 - July 10, 2010, 05:41 PM
    Quote from: thinkfree on July 10, 2010, 04:17 PM
    ... and intellect obviously isn't yours, homie.


    +1  Afro
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #102 - July 10, 2010, 05:43 PM
    But seriously, Q-Man, consider this, the more you keep reminding everybody how little you care about what they think, then slowly they're going to stop caring about what you think too.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #103 - July 10, 2010, 05:51 PM
    Quote from: J4m3z on July 10, 2010, 05:40 PM
    How did I know you were going to ask that?


    MAYBE BECAUSE I NEVER FUCKIN SAID IT?!?! Look, fuckface, I just went through this entire thread and did not find the statement you said I made. Maybe I missed it, in which case you should back up your shit, motherfucker, and quote/link to it here. Otherwise you're nothing but a fuckin liar.

    Quote from: J4m3z on July 10, 2010, 05:41 PM
    +1  Afro


    Yep, I disagree with the majority opinion, specifically your opinion, therefore I am intellectually inferior to you and thinkfree. What a couple of arrogant, snot-nosed punk kid douchebags you two are.

    Quote from: J4m3z on July 10, 2010, 05:43 PM
    But seriously, Q-Man, consider this, the more you keep reminding everybody how little you care about what they think, then slowly they're going to stop caring about what you think too.


    Oh no! People I've never met on an internet discussion forum will think poorly of me? Whatever will I do?
    fuck you
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #104 - July 10, 2010, 05:56 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 10, 2010, 05:51 PM
    Oh no! People I've never met on an internet discussion forum will think poorly of me? Whatever will I do?


    So why are you getting involved in the discussions on this forum? That's why I called you pretentious. You act like you don't care what anyone thinks so then why the hell are you in this thread?
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #105 - July 10, 2010, 05:59 PM
    Oh, I dunno, because I like to debate and discuss shit with other people. Sometimes people will agree with me, sometimes they won't. Some people will dislike me, some will like me, some respect me, some disrespect me. That's fuckin life.

    By the way-- where's that statement you said I made? Still waiting to see it.
    fuck you
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #106 - July 10, 2010, 06:05 PM
    You can wait a life time then cuz I've got better things to do than to go searching for what you said for you.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #107 - July 10, 2010, 06:07 PM
    I never fucking said it. I just looked for it and could not find it. You aren't posting it NOT because you don't want to waste your time, but because it doesn't fucking exist.

    You're a fuckin liar. An arrogant, never-makes-a-mistake, is-smarter-than-everyone-else, LIAR.
    fuck you
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #108 - July 10, 2010, 06:16 PM
    Calm down dude.
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
    Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #109 - July 10, 2010, 06:17 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on July 10, 2010, 01:14 PM
    You said he killed someone who was not a cop (therefore innocent in your view), only because he thought he was. So he (was) clearly a danger to innocent people, yet you wouldn't (have) turn(ed) him in?


    Would appreciate a response to this q-man. You wouldn't turn him in even though he has killed innocent (in your view) people and may well have killed again?
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #110 - July 10, 2010, 06:27 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on July 10, 2010, 06:17 PM
    Would appreciate a response to this q-man. You wouldn't turn him in even though he has killed innocent (in your view) people and may well have killed again?


    Not unless I knew he posed an imminent danger to someone else and I was not in a position to stop it myself, no.

    Look, I know no one here is going to agree with me, but my position is clear-- I would not have turned him in and I can think of very few and limited circumstances under which I would turn ANY fugitive in to the police. I may not be able to intellectually or ideologically justify it, but I follow my conscience and it tells me doing that would be wrong. I expect there will be many here that will claim that then I have a faulty conscience, and that may be true, but my moral code, as fucked-up and outside the norm as it may be, is fucking solid and I don't violate it even when I'm at risk if I don't. And part of my moral code is that I'm no fucking rat, and I don't volunteer information to the police unless both my conscience and my reason dictate that it is absolutely necessary to do so.

    J4m3z and thinkfree may think that makes me a piece-of-shit, an idiot, dishonest, pretentious or whatever, but that's just the way I feel and the way I am. Fuck it.
    fuck you
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #111 - July 10, 2010, 06:50 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 10, 2010, 06:27 PM
    Not unless I knew he posed an imminent danger to someone else and I was not in a position to stop it myself, no.


    Imminent here meaning what? Him holding a gun to someone's head? He recently killed innocent people, and he was still armed and apparently remorseless, how much more 'imminent' could it get?

    Quote
    Look, I know no one here is going to agree with me, but my position is clear-- I would not have turned him in and I can think of very few and limited circumstances under which I would turn ANY fugitive in to the police. I may not be able to intellectually or ideologically justify it, but I follow my conscience and it tells me doing that would be wrong. I expect there will be many here that will claim that then I have a faulty conscience, and that may be true, but my moral code, as fucked-up and outside the norm as it may be, is fucking solid and I don't violate it even when I'm at risk if I don't. And part of my moral code is that I'm no fucking rat, and I don't volunteer information to the police unless both my conscience and my reason dictate that it is absolutely necessary to do so.


    And you do not think it was absolutely necessary here?

    Quote
    J4m3z and thinkfree may think that makes me a piece-of-shit, an idiot, dishonest, pretentious or whatever, but that's just the way I feel and the way I am. Fuck it.


    I'm not trying to judge you, it's just good to know where people stand.
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #112 - July 10, 2010, 07:05 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 10, 2010, 06:27 PM
    Not unless I knew he posed an imminent danger to someone else and I was not in a position to stop it myself, no.

    Look, I know no one here is going to agree with me, but my position is clear-- I would not have turned him in and I can think of very few and limited circumstances under which I would turn ANY fugitive in to the police. I may not be able to intellectually or ideologically justify it, but I follow my conscience and it tells me doing that would be wrong. I expect there will be many here that will claim that then I have a faulty conscience, and that may be true, but my moral code, as fucked-up and outside the norm as it may be, is fucking solid and I don't violate it even when I'm at risk if I don't. And part of my moral code is that I'm no fucking rat, and I don't volunteer information to the police unless both my conscience and my reason dictate that it is absolutely necessary to do so.

    J4m3z and thinkfree may think that makes me a piece-of-shit, an idiot, dishonest, pretentious or whatever, but that's just the way I feel and the way I am. Fuck it.

    In your eyes, do you see the police as working for, or against, the peoples interests?
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #113 - July 10, 2010, 07:13 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on July 10, 2010, 06:50 PM
    Imminent here meaning what? Him holding a gun to someone's head?


    Something along those lines, yeah.

    Quote
    He recently killed innocent people, and he was still armed and apparently remorseless, how much more 'imminent' could it get?


    As I stated nearer the beginning of this thread, I doubt he would go out of his way to target someone who was not a member of the law enforcement/criminal justice/corrections system, or who was not previously connected with him. He wasn't randomly shooting people. I would not fear him shooting me.

    Quote
    And you do not think it was absolutely necessary here?


    I would think that should be clear by now-- no I don't.

    Quote from: IsLame on July 10, 2010, 07:05 PM
    In your eyes, do you see the police as working for, or against, the peoples interests?


    Against for the most part. I think society would be better off with a much, much smaller professional constabulary that only had investigative and training, not arrest or enforcement power. I'm not that familiar with the UK, but it's clear as day to me that the cops in this country are out of control and doing way more harm than good.
    fuck you
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #114 - July 10, 2010, 07:29 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 10, 2010, 07:13 PM
    Something along those lines, yeah.


    And if you, say, are aware of his whereabouts but do not report him because there is no 'imminent danger', and then he goes on to kill an innocent person, how would you feel about that?

    Quote
    As I stated nearer the beginning of this thread, I doubt he would go out of his way to target someone who was not a member of the law enforcement/criminal justice/corrections system, or who was not previously connected with him. He wasn't randomly shooting people. I would not fear him shooting me.


    So long as you're ok, I guess.

    He was clearly not very adept at identifying police officers. He could have made a similar mistake again.

    Quote
    I would think that should be clear by now-- no I don't.


    Well it's good to know how highly you value human life.
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #115 - July 10, 2010, 07:45 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on July 10, 2010, 07:29 PM
    And if you, say, are aware of his whereabouts but do not report him because there is no 'imminent danger', and then he goes on to kill an innocent person, how would you feel about that?


    Bad, but sometimes following your conscience and living by your moral code can lead to horrible consequences. I'd feel guilty about it, and I'm sure I'd start second-guessing my decision at that point, but not all moral decisions are clear-cut or easy.

    I've made my position on this issue and my personal moral code crystal clear several times in this thread, but you keep harping at it so you can do like everyone else here and tell me what a bad person I am and/or how fucked up my morality is.

    Quote
    So long as you're ok, I guess.


    The point was that I would not fear him because I'm not a cop and not someone connected with him-- and if you're not in one of those two groups I think you'd have little to fear. But nice job twisting that around to get another dig in on my character. This thread is turning into a real gang-bang, and not the fun kind.

    Quote
    He was clearly not very adept at identifying police officers. He could have made a similar mistake again.


    Yeah, if someone else lied and said "Person Y is a cop that's fucking your ex"-- what are the chances of that?

    Quote
    Well it's good to know how highly you value human life.


     Roll Eyes So basically you just asked me questions to set me up then jump on the sanctimonious bandwagon about how morally twisted I am with everyone else. How courageous.
    fuck you
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #116 - July 10, 2010, 07:54 PM
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #117 - July 10, 2010, 08:00 PM
    Is there some reason you feel like you need to keep poking me with a sharp stick, thinkfree?

    Just figure you're on the internet and can get away with being a prick to people with no negative consequences so why not? Try 4chan.
    fuck you
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #118 - July 10, 2010, 08:20 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 10, 2010, 07:45 PM
    Bad, but sometimes following your conscience and living by your moral code can lead to horrible consequences. I'd feel guilty about it, and I'm sure I'd start second-guessing my decision at that point, but not all moral decisions are clear-cut or easy.


    I would have thought this was a relatively simple one. Each to their own I guess.

    Quote
    I've made my position on this issue and my personal moral code crystal clear several times in this thread, but you keep harping at it so you can do like everyone else here and tell me what a bad person I am and/or how fucked up my morality is.


    Not really, I was more curious than anything.

    Quote
    The point was that I would not fear him because I'm not a cop and not someone connected with him-- and if you're not in one of those two groups I think you'd have little to fear. But nice job twisting that around to get another dig in on my character.


    Simple misunderstanding is all.

    Quote
    Yeah, if someone else lied and said "Person Y is a cop that's fucking your ex"-- what are the chances of that?


    Yeh because that's the only way it could happen. Roll Eyes Oh well, its a risk worth taking I guess, innocent life for your, erm, gut feelings you can't even justify.

    Quote
    Roll Eyes So basically you just asked me questions to set me up then jump on the sanctimonious bandwagon about how morally twisted I am with everyone else. How courageous.


    Not really. Like I said, it's good to know where people stand.
  • Re: Raoul Moat facebook page LOL
     Reply #119 - July 10, 2010, 08:30 PM
    Yeah, and you think where I stand is that I do not value human life. I do not believe this is true, I just think that the state, as currently constituted, in every country in the world, to varying degrees, is an extremely oppressive and illegitimate institution, and my personal morality dictates that I will not assist the armed agents of such an institution apprehend its own citizens, be those citizens good or bad, unless I believe there are extraordinary circumstances that morally demand it. I do not believe those circumstances existed in this case. I understand that following such a moral code may entail negative consequences-- but I've always had a naturally more deontological ethical stance than a consequentialist one.

    But if given a choice between living free and living safe, yes, I will pick freedom every fucking time. If you think that means I have less value for human life than someone who would be more inclined to choose safety, maybe you're right, maybe you aren't, but either way I'm comfortable with my moral code and so are those who know me in the real world because they know I'll stand up for them even at my own peril. And to me that matters a hell of a lot more than abstract moral philosophizing online with people I've never met.
    fuck you
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