Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen

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Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
OP - July 10, 2010, 03:45 PM

Irshad Manji is a lesbian Muslim who is hoping to reform Islam, she has written a book called The Trouble With Islam Today, and a documentary called Faith Without Fear.

Here is a video as she travels to Yemen, I found it interesting so I thought I'd share:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXAWT-YD_fc

Obviously, as a progressive thinker, she does as Christians do and disregards the ugly parts of the holy book and puts an emphasis on the good bits. How much of what she says do you believe is true?
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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #1 - July 10, 2010, 03:53 PM

Lesbianism isn't forbidden in Islam is it?

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #2 - July 10, 2010, 04:04 PM

i hardly bother watch youtube vidoes on religion/politics anymore but that was excellent. thanks for posting!

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #3 - July 10, 2010, 04:29 PM

her approach is a smart one.. even thou i might disagree with her about the history of Islam and the nature of Mohammed.. her message comes across unthreatening which i think is key for open discussion..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9vdUjuWxc
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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #4 - July 10, 2010, 05:16 PM

Quote from: TheRationalizer on July 10, 2010, 03:53 PM
Lesbianism isn't forbidden in Islam is it?

Believe so. There's verses in the Quran about men lying with men and it being transgressive. Of course there's nothing about women lying with women, so feel free to assume that means it's allowed.

007.081
YUSUFALI: "For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds."
PICKTHAL: Lo! ye come with lust unto men instead of women. Nay, but ye are wanton folk.
SHAKIR: Most surely you come to males in lust besides females; nay you are an extravagant people.

026.165
YUSUFALI: "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males,
026.166
YUSUFALI: "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"

Theres hadiths and stuff too.

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #5 - July 10, 2010, 05:18 PM

I don't see Al Zindani taking a liking to her and accepting that she has any credibility when it comes to Islam.

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #6 - July 10, 2010, 05:31 PM

Quote
I don't see Al Zindani taking a liking to her and accepting that she has any credibility when it comes to Islam

so, if Al Zindani etc. do not take a liking to her or whatever does that mean that she doesn't actually have any credibility when it comes to Islam? - we shouldn't forget she's a very intelligent academic - perhaps even a tad smarter than Al Zindani et al.

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #7 - July 10, 2010, 05:39 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc60ro81dIw

watch the lady with Salman Rushdie

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #8 - July 10, 2010, 05:55 PM

Quote from: abuyunus2 on July 10, 2010, 05:31 PM
so, if Al Zindani etc. do not take a liking to her or whatever does that mean that she doesn't actually have any credibility when it comes to Islam? - we shouldn't forget she's a very intelligent academic - perhaps even a tad smarter than Al Zindani et al.

I have no doubt that she is smarter than Al Zindani, but I think in the end it is influence that counts. I'm quite sure Al Zindani has a lot of that in Yemen. I'm quite sure that the Yemenis are not used to her type telling them about Islam. That could also go against her, she's 'Western'.

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #9 - July 11, 2010, 04:22 PM

It's funny to hear her say that Islam has become corrupted. It's the standard reaction to a religious apologist when they see that a social implementation of their religion is not working. The problem isn't the religion, no, the problem is that they are not implementing it correctly, the problem is that although the religion is perfect the people implementing it are imperfect. And what's the solution?

MORE RELIGION!

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #10 - July 12, 2010, 10:22 AM

she is a brave woman....but i honestly don't see her winning over the vast majority of muslims as far as homosexuality is concerned....though she is definately a breath of fresh air

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #11 - July 12, 2010, 10:46 PM

Quote from: TheRationalizer on July 11, 2010, 04:22 PM
It's funny to hear her say that Islam has become corrupted. It's the standard reaction to a religious apologist when they see that a social implementation of their religion is not working. The problem isn't the religion, no, the problem is that they are not implementing it correctly, the problem is that although the religion is perfect the people implementing it are imperfect. And what's the solution?

MORE RELIGION!

I see what you are saying, TheRationalizer. But I really like the fact that she exists, and she makes some Muslims stop and think: "maybe the true Islam *is* progressive and *is* allowed to change with the times". So those who are sitting on the fence, unsure which is the true Islam, and hoping that the true Islam *is* progressive, will be tempted to like her version of Islam.
It is much easier to get most Muslims to adopt a progressive version of Islam that leave Islam altogether. Do not underestimate the power of social ties.

If most Muslims followed her (liberal, progressive) version of Islam, we apostates would not have to keep our heads down worrying for our safety. These progressive Muslims are our friends.

I say this even though the scientist inside me does not like belief without evidence at all. You know that quote by Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #12 - July 13, 2010, 12:48 AM

A very intelligent lady! Far, far... superior to those pathetic white bimbos who go overboard with their crap about islam. She should rank as a non muslim's most lovable muslim!
@ Rationaliser Don't you think the brand of Islam she envisions is modern and benign? She comes through as a sincere and honest person. Even if you don't agree with her perceptions of Islam she is seeking to do something very positive. Her kind of 'irrationality' is tolerable. Demonizing followers of her kind of Islam would be a problem for even a rabid right winger. She deserves everyone's support at least for what she's trying to achieve,even if we don't agree with her means. I wish she's successful.
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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #13 - July 13, 2010, 06:34 AM

has anyone read her book ? if so how is it ?

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #14 - July 13, 2010, 07:02 AM

There are many you tube videos featuring her. View as many as you can ! Though I have not read her book, I will stick my neck out and say it will be excellent. Predictably, conservative Muslims are cursing her and calling her names. If what she claims is true [so hard to disbelieve her!] then she already has a very big audience all over the world, which is a great sign.

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #15 - July 13, 2010, 07:17 AM

Quote from: hypocrucifier on July 13, 2010, 12:48 AM
She should rank as a non muslim's most lovable muslim!

That sums up Irshad pretty well.

Quote
@ Rationaliser Don't you think the brand of Islam she envisions is modern and benign? She comes through as a sincere and honest person. Even if you don't agree with her perceptions of Islam she is seeking to do something very positive. Her kind of 'irrationality' is tolerable. Demonizing followers of her kind of Islam would be a problem for even a rabid right winger. She deserves everyone's support at least for what she's trying to achieve,even if we don't agree with her means. I wish she's successful.

Yup, good summary. I think she's full of shit but I can't help liking her.

Quote from: canex on July 13, 2010, 06:34 AM
has anyone read her book ? if so how is it ?

I read "The Trouble with Islam" when it first came out and in general it's well written and worth a look.

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #16 - July 13, 2010, 07:18 AM

Video was garbage, tried to make random yemeni people look like turrorists. My favorite part was when her individuality was erased by the "burqa".

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #17 - July 13, 2010, 07:41 AM

LOL at 7:00

...
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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #18 - July 13, 2010, 08:36 AM

As the Qur'an is directed mainly to men I suppose the emphasis was on male homosexuality.

As women were considered to be the subdued gender who fell under full control of men, Muhammad not knowing of the freedoms that women would come to enjoy in this day and age obviously didn't think it necessary to consider lesbianism.

As the Qur'an clearly stipulates (2:221) whom men are to give their believing women to (a believing man), it would be unIslamic for them to be given to a fellow woman.

When taken in context of other stipulations regarding fornications, adultery and lewdness in the Qur'an, it would become clear that any same sex relation would result in severe punishment. The Qur'an states:

Q4:15 And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away
Q17:32 And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an evil way.
Q24:2 As for the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, giving a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah

Fornication, lewdness, indecency, etc would be considered to be any act of a sexual nature, regardless of the partners' gender, that is performed prior to marriage or outside of marriage. The punishment for such acts is flogging, 100 lashes for the unmarried and possibly death for the married if the sunnah of the prophet is used. Also such an act is considered among the worst in the eyes of Allah, with the guilty placed at the bottom layer of hell.

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #19 - July 13, 2010, 08:49 AM

"Before Islam women were the spoils of war" - No comment.

I know you guys are going to think I am joking, but I am not....

1: I think that she appears more attractive with the Burqa on.
2: I think she could be considered to be more attractive than the other women by some men based on her body frame, the way she walks, and even because her Burqa is new and more shiny.

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #20 - July 14, 2010, 03:19 AM

Quote from: canex on July 13, 2010, 06:34 AM
has anyone read her book ? if so how is it ?

I have read the book. In her book she is not afraid to criticize Muslim clerics who preach hatred against non-Muslims. But she denies the evil in the Quran. She even denies how Muhammad waged wars. She does not mention Muhammad's marriage to little girl Ayesha. She basically washes over real Islam. She is trying to invent Islam according to her own thinking. Her Islam does not exist. However, she does call for abrogating Jew hating verses in the Quran.

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Re: Faith Without Fear: Lesbian Muslim Goes to Yemen
Reply #21 - July 14, 2010, 03:56 AM

Hypo said: Far, far... superior to those pathetic white bimbos who go overboard with their crap about islam.

stop hatin' dude.

discussions with the dawagandists i interacted with, lesbianism was serious, and
they indicated to me it was equivalent to adultry, using the the same surats that
a.ghazali quoted.

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