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 Topic: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka

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  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #90 - July 17, 2010, 10:03 AM
    Hmmm .... okay fair enough I can see it can have some effect. But the influence of prayers and especially the parents will still be an issue. I'm just not sure if education is enough. There is only so much a person can be taught and still be indoctrinated. Can such education absorb the current growth in women wearing them ... ? I don't have the data, but I'm not sure it would do so effectively enough.

    Btw, right now most Muslims over 20+ have lost their chance to be taught to think so inquisitively.

    EDIT: Question out of every 100 Muslim kids how many do you feel will think inquisitively as a result of such teaching?
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  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #91 - July 17, 2010, 11:20 AM
    Quote from: HighOctane on July 17, 2010, 10:03 AM
    Hmmm .... okay fair enough I can see it can have some effect. But the influence of prayers and especially the parents will still be an issue. I'm just not sure if education is enough.


    No, it won't be enough to influence everyone.  People have different personalities, some are more prone to delegate decisions to authority.


    Quote from: HighOctane on July 17, 2010, 10:03 AM
    There is only so much a person can be taught and still be indoctrinated. Can such education absorb the current growth in women wearing them ... ? I don't have the data, but I'm not sure it would do so effectively enough.


    The idea is that rather than teaching people not to have a religion it would teach them to assess information and as a result act in a more secular way.  Separating issues of "life" from issues of "after life".


    Quote from: HighOctane on July 17, 2010, 10:03 AM
    Btw, right now most Muslims over 20+ have lost their chance to be taught to think so inquisitively.


    Most people 20+ have lost the opportunity, but not the ability.


    Quote from: HighOctane on July 17, 2010, 10:03 AM
    EDIT: Question out of every 100 Muslim kids how many do you feel will think inquisitively as a result of such teaching?


    I think the result would be a scale.  I think all but a very few people (not just Muslims) question everything as I now do, and all but a very few accept everything without questioning.  I think the result would be that 99% of people would question *more*.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #92 - July 17, 2010, 12:08 PM
    Okay, TheRationalizer, point taken. Afro
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  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #93 - July 17, 2010, 06:28 PM
    Quote from: HighOctane on July 17, 2010, 09:41 AM
    How would that go?


    You misunderstood me. I meant intellectual discussion between adults, not discussion between teacher and young student.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #94 - July 17, 2010, 07:12 PM
    Conservative MP Philip Hollobone refuse to meet with constituents wearing a veil  says news

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/7895995/Conservative-MP-Philip-Hollobone-refuse-to-meet-with-constituents-wearing-a-veil.html



    Quote
    Philip Hollobone, MP for Kettering, was accused by Muslim groups of "failing in his duty" as MP.

    Mr Hollobone is trying to bring in a Private Member's Bill to ban women wearing the burka or niqab in public. He said he "took the view" that since a constituent was able to see his face he should be able to see theirs.

    He argued that he would not be able to satisfy himself of the identity of a person without being able to do so.

    Mr Hollobone said that he would "invite" anyone who did not wish to remove their veil to communicate with him in a "different way", such as by letter, rather than face to face.

    May the guy is fearful that there might be a dick under the burkha with a dyno..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #95 - July 17, 2010, 07:35 PM
    He has no right refusing to meet with his constituent or dictate the terms of how they should dress.
    He has one job and that is to represent any and all of his constituents and if he refuses, he is not qualified for that job.
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #96 - July 17, 2010, 07:43 PM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 07:35 PM
    He has no right refusing to meet with his constituent or dictate the terms of how they should dress.
    He has one job and that is to represent any and all of his constituents and if he refuses, he is not qualified for that job.

    yah.. he doesn't want to get killed on the job.. lol..

     If Muslim woman insist to meet him with burkha., then they should thoroughly searched.. BODY searched  by him and then they can put on burkha and go to the meeting infront of camera..

    Would that be acceptable to burkha woman??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #97 - July 17, 2010, 07:51 PM
    Has there been a history of Muslim women pulling knives from under their burkas and attacking their MP's in UK?
    I must have missed alot whilst I have been hidden under a rock.

    Paranoia and stupidity strikes again
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #98 - July 17, 2010, 07:57 PM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 07:51 PM
    Has there been a history of Muslim women pulling knives on their MP's in UK?
    I must have missed alot whilst I have been hidden under a rock.

    Paranoia and stupidity strikes again

    well Living is better than death by negligence. I have seen men with beard  under Burkha  with Allah in ther brains

     He has the right to say what he says. Next time don't elect him.. don't support him..don't vote for him but  Now she  can go to court with burkha to overcome his rules of meeting him 

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #99 - July 17, 2010, 07:57 PM
    Wow, there was uproar when Jack Straw politely asked constituents to remove their veil, I wonder how the public will react to a politician actively boycotting it.

    Or maybe they'll just think "Phillip Hollobone? Who the hell is he?"  Tongue
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #100 - July 17, 2010, 08:07 PM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 07:51 PM
    Has there been a history of Muslim women pulling knives from under their burkas and attacking their MP's in UK?
    I must have missed alot whilst I have been hidden under a rock.

    Paranoia and stupidity strikes again

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Stephen-Timms-Woman-Charged-With-Attempting-To-Murder-Labour-MP-Stephen-Timms/Article/201005315632745?lid=ARTICLE_15632745_Stephen_Timms:_Woman_Charged_With_Attempting_To_Murder_Labour_MP_Stephen_Timms&lpos=UK_News_Top_Stories_Header_2
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

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  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #101 - July 17, 2010, 08:09 PM
    Where does it say burka in the article?
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #102 - July 17, 2010, 08:11 PM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 08:09 PM
    Where does it say burka in the article?

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=11305.msg312389#msg312389
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #103 - July 17, 2010, 08:12 PM
    Quote from: Mr X on July 17, 2010, 08:07 PM
    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Stephen-Timms-Woman-Charged-With-Attempting-To-Murder-Labour-MP-Stephen-Timms/Article/201005315632745?lid=ARTICLE_15632745_Stephen_Timms:_Woman_Charged_With_Attempting_To_Murder_Labour_MP_Stephen_Timms&lpos=UK_News_Top_Stories_Header_2


    Do you know why she did it?  I looked it up but couldnt find why???
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  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #104 - July 17, 2010, 08:13 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on July 17, 2010, 08:11 PM
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=11305.msg312389#msg312389


    Huh? Question was aimed at X
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #105 - July 17, 2010, 08:21 PM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 08:13 PM
    Huh? Question was aimed at X

    Oh I see., but that is O.K.  Meredith,

    that question appeared to be related to "y' s"  post., So   "Y" is answering the question  ..lol..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #106 - July 17, 2010, 08:25 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on July 17, 2010, 08:12 PM
    Do you know why she did it?  I looked it up but couldnt find why???

    Errrrrrr..

    Choudhary/ Woman and Islam.. and she is a woman with four kids.,  So many troubles., Gone case  ..  Not sure where there father is..

    So take a knife go for any famous guy who doesn't support Islam..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #107 - July 17, 2010, 08:25 PM
    yes she was wearing a burka. i recall that from the tv news at the time.

    some follow up here

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/7888421/Woman-accused-of-stabbing-MP-refuses-to-recognise-court.html


    the relevance of the burka - perhaps irrelavant to the satbbing, but not  to this topic.

    http://www.iengage.org.uk/component/content/article/882-the-relevance-of-the-burqa-to-stabbing-of-stephen-timms-mp
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #108 - July 17, 2010, 08:28 PM
    But it still doesn't say Burka. It says and I quote directly:
    Quote
    She appeared at the Old Bailey by video link from prison wearing a black headscarf and Muslim dress and not guilty pleas were entered on her behalf.


    Is it headscarf and abaya they mean?
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #109 - July 17, 2010, 08:29 PM
    I've amended my post.
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #110 - July 17, 2010, 08:32 PM
    Oic ty
    Then have a female officer search before entering.
    Still shouldn't take it off to get access to their MP imo
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #111 - July 17, 2010, 08:33 PM
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2974203/Stephen-Timms-MP-is-stabbed-at-constituency-surgery-in-East-London.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #112 - July 17, 2010, 08:34 PM
     Go Criss!
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #113 - July 17, 2010, 08:35 PM
    Lol at The Sun. Really?
    I'd even take daily mail over that
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #114 - July 17, 2010, 09:19 PM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 08:35 PM
    Lol at The Sun. Really?
    I'd even take daily mail over that

    Why? Something is there in Sun means it is automatically wrong? and Meredith do you think Muslim women with Burkha are incapable of knifing?


    Quote
    Sagal Ahmed,16, a girl student of the nearby Kingsford Community School, was in the community centre in Beckton Globe hospital, when the stabbing happened. She said, “We just heard this big commotion so we ran in to the room. The security guard had grabbed this Asian woman. She was wearing a long black outfit like what Muslims wear and an orangey headscarf. I think she was a Muslim. She wasn’t saying anything. They were just grabbing her to keep her still. She was really shaking. The Muslim woman seemed to have been shocked and distressed. It was the most shocking thing I’ve ever seen. ‘Then we saw the man [Mr Timms] getting put in another room. We saw the blood on his shirt but I couldn’t tell where he’d been stabbed. They were dragging him. He was conscious. He looked shocked and he was pale.”

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #115 - July 17, 2010, 09:36 PM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 07:51 PM
    Has there been a history of Muslim women pulling knives from under their burkas and attacking their MP's in UK?


    Strangely enough, yes Smiley

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/05/15/labour-mp-stephen-timms-stabbed-in-knife-attack-horror-115875-22258746/
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #116 - July 18, 2010, 05:57 PM
    One is not enough to justify a blanket ban.

    He ought to be given the boot if he refuses to meet who he is supposed to represent.
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #117 - July 18, 2010, 05:59 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on July 17, 2010, 09:19 PM
    Why? Something is there in Sun means it is automatically wrong? and Meredith do you think Muslim women with Burkha are incapable of knifing?


    It is The Sun. Do I really need to explain why I do not hold it as a reputable paper for information?

    Every single one of us is capable of dealing out harm in the right circumstances.
    Unless there has been a history of  many women in burkas attacking their MPs. This MP has no right to dictate the terms (as in what they wear) of meeting those he represents.
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #118 - July 18, 2010, 06:09 PM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 18, 2010, 05:59 PM
    It is The Sun. Do I really need to explain why I do not hold it as a reputable paper for information?

    Every single one of us is capable of dealing out harm in the right circumstances.
    Unless there has been a history of  many women in burkas attacking their MPs. This MP has no right to dictate the terms (as in what they wear) of meeting those he represents.


    You cannot deny that it is a window of opportunity though.. and one incident is enough to cause catastrophes, if it is not stabbing it could be something else.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #119 - July 18, 2010, 06:13 PM
    It is a good opportunity to try and shove through a ban but it will not happen.

    Britain has many times over the last decade and even further defended the rights of a minorities to express themselves however they want to even if it is the way they dress whereas in comparison supposedly liberal democracies like France will happily stamp all over those rights to appease the unreasonable and unfounded fears of the majority for a few votes using a populist gesture.
    It will not happen and in the small chance it does. It would be repealed even faster.

    What I find especially interesting is that in polls Europeans tend to favour the ban whereas Americans do not.
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

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