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 Topic: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable

 (Read 13764 times)
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  • He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     OP - July 21, 2010, 11:18 AM

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/21/arab-guilty-rape-consensual-sex-jew

    If this is precedent then every guy who lies about his salary , job title, cock size or what car he has should also be charged with rape by deception



    A Palestinian man has been convicted of rape after having consensual sex with a woman who had believed him to be a fellow Jew.

    Sabbar Kashur, 30, was sentenced to 18 months in prison on Monday after the court ruled that he was guilty of rape by deception. According to the complaint filed by the woman with the Jerusalem district court, the two met in downtown Jerusalem in September 2008 where Kashur, an Arab from East Jerusalem, introduced himself as a Jewish bachelor seeking a serious relationship. The two then had consensual sex in a nearby building before Kashur left.

    When she later found out that he was not Jewish but an Arab, she filed a criminal complaint for rape and indecent assault.

    Although Kashur was initially charged with rape and indecent assault, this was changed to a charge of rape by deception as part of a plea bargain arrangement.

    Handing down the verdict, Tzvi Segal, one of three judges on the case, acknowledged that sex had been consensual but said that although not "a classical rape by force," the woman would not have consented if she had not believed Kashur was Jewish.

    The sex therefore was obtained under false pretences, the judges said. "If she hadn't thought the accused was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious romantic relationship, she would not have cooperated," they added.

    The court ruled that Kashur should receive a jail term and rejected the option of a six-month community service order. He was said to be seeking to appeal.

    Segal said: "The court is obliged to protect the public interest from sophisticated, smooth-tongued criminals who can deceive innocent victims at an unbearable price – the sanctity of their bodies and souls. When the very basis of trust between human beings drops, especially when the matters at hand are so intimate, sensitive and fateful, the court is required to stand firmly at the side of the victims – actual and potential – to protect their wellbeing. Otherwise, they will be used, manipulated and misled, while paying only a tolerable and symbolic price."

    Gideon Levy, a liberal Israeli commentator, was quoted as saying: "I would like to raise only one question with the judge. What if this guy had been a Jew who pretended to be a Muslim and had sex with a Muslim woman?

    "Would he have been convicted of rape? The answer is: of course not."


    Arabs constitute about 20% of Israel's population, but relationships between Jews and Arabs are rare. There are few mixed neighbourhoods or towns, and Arabs suffer routine discrimination.

    Israeli MPs are considering a law requiring prospective Israeli citizens to declare loyalty to Israel as a "Jewish, democratic state". Many Arabs would balk at swearing allegiance to a state which they see as explicitly excluding or marginalising them.

    Dan Meridor, a deputy prime minister in Binyamin Netanyahu's government, is opposed to the proposal. "Why does every bill need the word 'Jewish' in it – to show the Arab citizens that it doesn't belong to them? Then we're all shocked when they radicalise their stance.

    "The majority doesn't need to remind the minority that it is in fact a minority all the time," he added.

    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #1 - July 21, 2010, 11:26 AM

    Quote
    A Palestinian man has been convicted of rape after having consensual sex with a woman who had believed him to be a fellow Jew.


    That is not rape.
    What this sentence is however is insulting to those women who are forced to have nonconsensual sex imo
    Quote
    Gideon Levy, a liberal Israeli commentator, was quoted as saying: "I would like to raise only one question with the judge. What if this guy had been a Jew who pretended to be a Muslim and had sex with a Muslim woman?

    "Would he have been convicted of rape? The answer is: of course not."

     
     finmad

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #2 - July 21, 2010, 11:55 AM

    Did this Jewess  and that Muslim forgot their religious rules??  

    Stone Them...

    where is original link?? and why is it only coming in Gaurdian??

    I see this one..http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/arab-man-who-posed-as-jew-to-seduce-woman-convicted-of-rape-1.302895

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #3 - July 21, 2010, 12:02 PM

    That is not rape.
    What this sentence is however is insulting to those women who are forced to have nonconsensual sex imo  
     finmad


    The issue of fraud as to consent goes to the heart of rape.

    For example, in one case, a woman and her boyfriend at a party went to a room, had sex.  He went back to the party, another guy came into the room - and had sex with the woman (she thought it was her boyfriend).  She "consented" on the basis it was her boyfriend.

    In an old English case, a woman agreed to a procedure to correct her singing voice. It turned out that this "procedure" was sex.

    Certain cases however fall outside these - where material issues as to the consent are not disclosed - and different jurisdictions take different views on it:

    For example where a man told a woman that he did not have an STD (when he had gonorrhea).

    This seems to be an example of that principle.









  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #4 - July 21, 2010, 12:02 PM

    What if the man had claimed to be rich, so she had sex with him, but later found that he was not rich. Would that also be "rape by deception"? Because that probably happens every day.

    And think of all the women deceiving men by dropping a few years off of their age.

    I'm going to claim rape the next time I wake up next to a chick who looks bad without her make up. This is an insult to all rape victims!

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #5 - July 21, 2010, 12:06 PM

    The issue of fraud as to consent goes to the heart of rape.

    For example, ...........................
    This seems to be an example of that principle.

    At this age and time,  The women is stupid and  drag  that guy to court for FRAUD not for rape... Rape and consensual sex without marriage in Islam and Judaism is  .. serving  STONES..










     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #6 - July 21, 2010, 12:09 PM

    What this sentence is however is insulting to those women who are forced to have nonconsensual sex imo  
     finmad



    How? That sentence is perfectly logical.

    The issue of fraud as to consent goes to the heart of rape.

    For example, in one case, a woman and her boyfriend at a party went to a room, had sex.  He went back to the party, another guy came into the room - and had sex with the woman (she thought it was her boyfriend).  She "consented" on the basis it was her boyfriend.

    In an old English case, a woman agreed to a procedure to correct her singing voice. It turned out that this "procedure" was sex.

    Certain cases however fall outside these - where material issues as to the consent are not disclosed - and different jurisdictions take different views on it:

    For example where a man told a woman that he did not have an STD (when he had gonorrhea).

    This seems to be an example of that principle.


    The incidents you are mentioning are not comparable to this one at all. Its not like he asked her to marry him.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #7 - July 21, 2010, 12:11 PM

    This is not rape, "rape by deception", Jesus Christ. It’s consensual, it was not forced. Whole thing is racist and on a systematic level since this is a court ruling. "Omg he was really a muslim, all along i thought i was sucking on Jewish kielbasa turns out it was a Palestinian soseig. I demand justice!"  

    It's fraud, shouldn't go to jail for this, how absurd.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #8 - July 21, 2010, 12:15 PM

    Did this Jewess  and that Muslim forgot their religious rules??  

    Stone Them...

    where is original link?? and why is it only coming in Gaurdian??

    I see this one..http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/arab-man-who-posed-as-jew-to-seduce-woman-convicted-of-rape-1.302895


    Fornication is not punished by stoning but with 100 lashes in Islam.

    I don't even think Jews stone people anymore, since that ruling was removed around the time of Muhammad, at least those Jews. That's why he brought it back.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #9 - July 21, 2010, 12:16 PM

    "rape by deception", ......
     

    Nope.. is is fraud.,

    If they are religious .. "SERVE THEM STONES"  or make that guy Jew or that lady Muslim.,  and let them live as normal.,


      If they are Not religious, take him to court and move on with life..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #10 - July 21, 2010, 12:17 PM

    Fornication is not punished by stoning but with 100 lashes in Islam.

    I don't even think Jews stone people anymore, since that ruling was removed around the time of Muhammad, at least those Jews. That's why he brought it back.

    It depends...   which Islam, which Mullah fucker  and which sharia rule you  follow..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #11 - July 21, 2010, 12:20 PM

    It depends...   which Islam, which Mullah fucker  and which sharia rule you  follow..


    You know this was not adultery right? They were not married*.

    So please bring proof that you get stoned to death for fornication.

    1. You won't find that in Quran.

    2. I don't remember reading that in the Hadiths.


    *Unless I misread article.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #12 - July 21, 2010, 12:22 PM

    The issue of fraud as to consent goes to the heart of rape.

    For example, in one case, a woman and her boyfriend at a party went to a room, had sex.  He went back to the party, another guy came into the room - and had sex with the woman (she thought it was her boyfriend).  She "consented" on the basis it was her boyfriend.

    In an old English case, a woman agreed to a procedure to correct her singing voice. It turned out that this "procedure" was sex.

    Certain cases however fall outside these - where material issues as to the consent are not disclosed - and different jurisdictions take different views on it:

    For example where a man told a woman that he did not have an STD (when he had gonorrhea).

    This seems to be an example of that principle.




    You agree on the 18 months sentence then? And that he is now labeled a rapist? Don't give me the rape by deception bs, he will forever be known as a rapist now. You agree with those two points?
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #13 - July 21, 2010, 12:32 PM

    I certainly don't agree with the ruling but to be fair this was not the first case of its kind in Israel.


    "In 2008, the High Court of Justice set a precedent on rape by deception, rejecting an appeal of the rape conviction by Zvi Sleiman, who impersonated a senior official in the Housing Ministry whose wife worked in the National Insurance Institute. Sleiman told women he would get them an apartment and increased NII payments if they would sleep with him."


    "In the past, men who misrepresented themselves in this way were convicted of fraud.

    One such case was that of Eran Ben-Avraham, who told a woman he was a neurosurgeon after which she had sex with him, and was convicted of three counts of fraud."



    ^ Source: http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/jurists-say-arab-s-rape-conviction-sets-dangerous-precedent-1.303109


    This is fraud not rape. FFS.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #14 - July 21, 2010, 12:33 PM

    This case is ridiculous. That guy should not have been convicted for anything. Not rape, nor fraud. She did not have sex with him, because he was a jew. She had sex with him, because she found him attractive.

    This case certainly does not put Israel in a good light.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #15 - July 21, 2010, 12:38 PM

    If a woman sleeps with a guy simply becuase he tells a lie about his job to give the impression that he is a high earner and the woman acts on this to agree to sex, if he is jailed for rape should be not be jailed for prostitution ?

    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #16 - July 21, 2010, 12:41 PM

    If it were reversed, in a muslim country, "the jew deceiving the muslimah"  I have NO DOUBT
    he would be imprisoned, tortured, raped, and killed immediately.  

    And IF it were a jew, would they believe her without two male
    witnesses?Huh? 

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #17 - July 21, 2010, 12:42 PM

    I certainly don't agree with the ruling but to be fair this was not the first case of its kind in Israel.


    "In 2008, the High Court of Justice set a precedent on rape by deception, rejecting an appeal of the rape conviction by Zvi Sleiman, who impersonated a senior official in the Housing Ministry whose wife worked in the National Insurance Institute. Sleiman told women he would get them an apartment and increased NII payments if they would sleep with him."


    "In the past, men who misrepresented themselves in this way were convicted of fraud.

    One such case was that of Eran Ben-Avraham, who told a woman he was a neurosurgeon after which she had sex with him, and was convicted of three counts of fraud."



    ^ Source: http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/jurists-say-arab-s-rape-conviction-sets-dangerous-precedent-1.303109


    This is fraud not rape. FFS.


    The first case is really not comparable to this one, the second one is. But to lie about certain stuff (job/car/salary etc.) to get laid, is common practice among most men. You can not convict them for fraud, and certainly not rape in those instances.

    In any case, she slept with him because she found him attractive, not because he was a jew or some crap like that. But obviously she had some prejudice against arabs, and therefore could not bear having slept with one, thus went to court, and Israeli law in this case, was backwards enough to actually convict him.

    I laugh at Israeli law in this case.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #18 - July 21, 2010, 12:44 PM

    If it were reversed, in a muslim country, "the jew deceiving the muslimah"  I have NO DOUBT
    he would be imprisoned, tortured, raped, and killed immediately.  

    And IF it were a jew, would they believe her without two male
    witnesses?Huh? 

    ^
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #19 - July 21, 2010, 12:52 PM

    Thats really not what we are debating here. What might or might not have happened in muslims countries, in a similar case, is irrelevant. Because this was still a ridiculous ruling by the Israeli court.

    The court sould have dismissed the case promptly. Whatever the lie, as long as the sex was consentual, it should not matter one bit.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #20 - July 21, 2010, 12:56 PM

    You agree on the 18 months sentence then? And that he is now labeled a rapist? Don't give me the rape by deception bs, he will forever be known as a rapist now. You agree with those two points?

    I'm not certain how I feel about the "rapist" label. This would not be considered a crime in England for example.
    Perhaps there should be a lower category offence for fraud as to a material fact vitiating consent.
    The fact that the "material issue" was his race/religion is a separate issue - which is also distasteful.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #21 - July 21, 2010, 01:00 PM

    hmmm... IA.. i agree, fraud would definitely have been more applicable.
    okay.. no more hypotheses  Cry  i dont know what  ^  means, but im
    guessing its not very nice. 

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #22 - July 21, 2010, 01:05 PM

    I'm not very well versed in internet jargon, but I think it means "what the above poster said".

    In any case, if you can convict people, in instances like these, in Israel, then it just shows what a petty country Israel is. Convicting someone for rape, because he lied about his race, how ludcirous. And no, it does not matter one bit what might have happened in the arab countries.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #23 - July 21, 2010, 01:06 PM

    This case is ridiculous. That guy should not have been convicted for anything. Not rape, nor fraud. She did not have sex with him, because he was a jew. She had sex with him, because she found him attractive.

    This case certainly does not put Israel in a good light.


    No it is not ok as she was taken advantage of.   She consented on different grounds.  What if he told her he was disease free when he wasn't?  If she doesn't want to get done by Arabs then it's her personal choice and it should be respected.  It's her minge afterall.  Why do you think it is OK for someone to fool her?

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #24 - July 21, 2010, 01:11 PM

    What if the man had claimed to be rich, so she had sex with him, but later found that he was not rich. Would that also be "rape by deception"? Because that probably happens every day.


    hehe guilty!

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #25 - July 21, 2010, 01:12 PM

    If it were reversed, in a muslim country, "the jew deceiving the muslimah"  I have NO DOUBT
    he would be imprisoned, tortured, raped, and killed immediately. 

    And IF it were a jew, would they believe her without two male
    witnesses?Huh?

     Roll Eyes
    So, two wrongs make a right? should we start cutting hands of Saudis thieves in America because this is how they punish thieves in Saudi?
    Your logic is very skewed JNT. I'm very surprised this would come from you of all people.


    The first case is really not comparable to this one, the second one is. But to lie about certain stuff (job/car/salary etc.) to get laid, is common practice among most men. You can not convict them for fraud, and certainly not rape in those instances.

    In any case, she slept with him because she found him attractive, not because he was a jew or some crap like that. But obviously she had some prejudice against arabs, and therefore could not bear having slept with one, thus went to court, and Israeli law in this case, was backwards enough to actually convict him.

    I laugh at Israeli law in this case.

    No one should be convicted in this case. All I'm saying is he was a liar not a rapist.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #26 - July 21, 2010, 01:12 PM

    No it is not ok as she was taken advantage of.   She consented on different grounds.  What if he told her he was disease free when he wasn't?  If she doesn't want to get done by Arabs then it's her personal choice and it should be respected.  It's her minge afterall.  Why do you think it is OK for someone to fool her?


    It's perfectly ok for someone to fool her, people have been getting laid like this since time immemorial. Guys get fooled like this everyday - wiki "make up".

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #27 - July 21, 2010, 01:20 PM

    No it is not ok as she was taken advantage of.   She consented on different grounds.  What if he told her he was disease free when he wasn't?  If she doesn't want to get done by Arabs then it's her personal choice and it should be respected.  It's her minge afterall.  Why do you think it is OK for someone to fool her?

    I'm not well-versed with legal matters but I think your analogy is very different. That would be endangering her health. This guy didn't.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #28 - July 21, 2010, 01:21 PM

    No it is not ok as she was taken advantage of.   She consented on different grounds.  What if he told her he was disease free when he wasn't?  If she doesn't want to get done by Arabs then it's her personal choice and it should be respected.  It's her minge afterall.  Why do you think it is OK for someone to fool her?


    He did not force her to have sex with him. People get fooled all the time, tough luck. You can not take people to court for such matters. If she was unsure, why sleep with him in the first place? He never forced himself upon her, she consented to having sex. In other words, she put herself in that situation. If she was smallminded and backwards enough to think that some races are not worthy of having sex with, then it just shows what kind of person she really is.

    In any case, we do not know all the details. It might not even have been the wrong race issue that might have ticked her off, but rather the arab bragging of having sex with a jew woman, or making derogatory remarks about her that might have made her take the case to court. The ruling is still ludicrous though.

    This case can in any case not in any way be correlated to someone lying about being disease free. He lied about his race, which is not such a big issue, unless you are a backward person with a racist mindset.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #29 - July 21, 2010, 01:22 PM

    unless you are a backward person with a racist mindset.


    Well we are talking about Israel, so...  whistling2

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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