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 Topic: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable

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  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #60 - July 21, 2010, 02:26 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 21, 2010, 02:16 PM
    You said "Ok fine, but the article said that he posed as a Jewish bachelor and she went to him because of that reason.  There was a case of a Hong Kong woman being fooled into having sex with a 60 year old.  She was told that it would cure some sort of ailment she had and she agreed.  There was still consent from both sides but it does not make it right either."
    So what made you disagree with me? I also said it was wrong!


    I don't know, perhaps I misread or perhaps I was responding to someone else, whatever the case my apologies

    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 21, 2010, 02:16 PM
    Because in your reply to me, you said "I feel that many members' emotions are clouding their judgment as regards this issue."
    Who are these "many members"? and why did you say this in a reply to me?


    No I wasn't actually referring to you personally.  Had I wanted to single you out, you would have known.  I was referring to that other poster Balthier who kept saying that she was bigoted and racist, when it is irrelevant and I assumed there were others who probably had the same views
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #61 - July 21, 2010, 02:32 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on July 21, 2010, 02:23 PM
    Look I've been in this situation myself once. I met this girl and she was great, she told me she was white and I was like "cool, i like white people" and so we hooked up and she let me into her place and you know we got a little tongue action goin, hehe. Then she starts undressing and when she takes off her pants I realize she's got this amazing fly booty thats like all up in my face, oh yeaaaah. So we like git it on doggy style n shit, good stuff, bumpin n grinding. Baby baby. And so we're done and satisfied and as I lie there I start thinkin about her big booty and I realize something... SHE'S ACTUALLY BLACK!!! OMG!!! SHE LIED TO ME!!! I WOULD NEVER HAVE SEX WITH A BLACK PERSON!! OMG!!!!!!  Cry


    Well for the sake of being a pedantic bore and to be technical...  in that case you had legal grounds to accuse her of intentional deception.  Whether you do it, or whether you think its an issue is your personal choice
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #62 - July 21, 2010, 02:32 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on July 21, 2010, 01:57 PM
    I didn't miss that point at all, I agree with it.  If she'd keyed his car, I'd laugh, but prosecuting him is OTT.  However, the comparison with silver medallists or whatever is missing the point that she wasn't with this man as a fling, she was conned into thinking that there was something more than sex going on.


    She and every other girl whos picked up at a night club. She should have been weary of men like him. But at the end of the day, she probably was no virgin, so I don't see what the big deal is, unless we start thinking from her cultural viewpoint. But then again, much of the backward stuff muslims do, make sense from theirt cultural viewpoint too, and we certainly don't condone them.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #63 - July 21, 2010, 02:38 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on July 21, 2010, 02:18 PM
    Maybe, mabye not.  The point I am trying to make is that the attitude of some in this thread that she's some kind of a racist biatch is not borne out by the article itself.  It wasn't as if she expressed any bar against sex with Arab men, she was looking for a Jewish man specifically because she was looking for more than a one night stand.  We all know in a perfect world considerations like that wouldn't come into the search for Mr. or Ms. Right, but in reality they do, and not always because the person is a bigot either.

    Well she is racist/bigot. The average Arab woman might be even more racist/bigoted but still the Jewish woman was also racist/bigoted.
    My dad told me he would be upset if I married a non-Iraqi girl. That makes him racist/bigoted. A mild sweet bigot? yeah but still a bigot. IWO, she's not evil but she is bigoted.

    *Bigot/racist, it's all semantics. You know what I mean
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #64 - July 21, 2010, 02:41 PM
    Quote
    She and every other girl whos picked up at a night club.


    Bullshit.  Plenty of girls in nightclubs are there deliberately looking for a one night stand.

    Quote
    But at the end of the day, she probably was no virgin


    Oh, here we go.   Roll Eyes

    Quote
    so I don't see what the big deal is, unless we start thinking from her cultural viewpoint.


    Fuck the cultural viewpoint, that's just over complicating it.  She was looking for one thing, which he pretended to offer, and he lied.  He's a shit, end of.  The Israeli law is an ass in this case, but let's not gloss over his faults either.

    Quote
    But then again, much of the backward stuff muslims do, make sense from theirt cultural viewpoint too, and we certainly don't condone them.


    Again, its got nothing to do with culture, its a simple case of deception.  He must be one desparately ugly bollocks if he has to pretend to be a Jew looking for marriage in order to get a woman to sleep with him.  
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #65 - July 21, 2010, 02:43 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on July 21, 2010, 02:21 PM
    I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to go into any legal semantics, but he introduced himself as a Jew seeking a long term relationship and she consented because she fell for it.  That is fraud, it is deception.  You are taking advantage of another person's ignorance.  It may be considered as deliberate deception which is considered as an offense under various criminal codes

    It is deception. I totally agree. But I'm not sure it's the type pf deception that should be prosecuted. Or do you believe any deception should be a crime?


    Quote from: ras111 on July 21, 2010, 02:21 PM
    She was in a nightclub where she was not supposed not to have been by law.  Are you going to blame him?  It is like punishing a rape victim for not arming herself or going out in a big group after she gets assaulted.

    Yes, there is some irresponsibility on his part.
    Besides, like I said it might be argued she entraped him into statutory rape which is a crime in itself. What did this gentlemen entrap her into?


    Quote from: ras111 on July 21, 2010, 02:21 PM
    Theft is another charge, but the point is that he would not have been able to carry out that theft had he not intentionally deceived his victims and presented himself as/ or something that was not what it appeared to be.

    I see your point. But not every deception is a crime. The consequences of the deception are more important than the act of deception per se.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #66 - July 21, 2010, 02:44 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 21, 2010, 02:38 PM
    Well she is racist/bigot. The average Arab woman might be even more racist/bigoted but still the Jewish woman was also racist/bigoted.
    My dad told me he would be upset if I married a non-Iraqi girl. That makes him racist/bigoted. A mild sweet bigot? yeah but still a bigot. IWO, she's not evil but she is bigoted.

    *Bigot/racist, it's all semantics. You know what I mean


    I'm not sure it is bigoted to think like that.  It can be, but not necessarily, it might be based on valid concerns.  For example, your father might be looking at the rate of marital breakdown and thinking that marriage is hard enough without bringing in cultural and religious differences.  If he's trying to minimize the risk that his son ends up unhappy in his marriage, I don't think that makes him a bigot.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #67 - July 21, 2010, 02:45 PM
    My dad told me I can marry any race as long as she converts to Islam and isn't black. Because black people steal and belong in dangerous gangs. He has valid concerns too.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #68 - July 21, 2010, 02:47 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on July 21, 2010, 02:26 PM
    I don't know, perhaps I misread or perhaps I was responding to someone else, whatever the case my apologies

    No problem. It was a misunderstanding. My apologies too.


    Quote from: ras111 on July 21, 2010, 02:26 PM
    No I wasn't actually referring to you personally.  Had I wanted to single you out, you would have known.  I was referring to that other poster Balthier who kept saying that she was bigoted and racist, when it is irrelevant and I assumed there were others who probably had the same views

    It's the "many" that ticked me off TBH. But anyway thanks for clearing that up. Apologize. No hard feelings.  Smiley
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #69 - July 21, 2010, 02:56 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on July 21, 2010, 02:44 PM
    I'm not sure it is bigoted to think like that.  It can be, but not necessarily, it might be based on valid concerns.  For example, your father might be looking at the rate of marital breakdown and thinking that marriage is hard enough without bringing in cultural and religious differences.  If he's trying to minimize the risk that his son ends up unhappy in his marriage, I don't think that makes him a bigot.

    Well if she went to the police and filed a case against him, that doesn't tell me she was looking for an optimal marriage. It tells me that she felt violated because of his religion. She has the right to feel violated but she doens't have the right to go to the police.
    My final word is: had she not gone to the police, I would've not considered her a bigot. But having gone to the police, she's a bigot. And in both scenarious, they guy is a lying scumbag.

    BTW, my dad told me he'd rather I marry a Christian Iraqi than an English convert. He's not concerned about race or religion as much he's concerned about nationality and culture. He's not an evil man but he's still technically prejudieced against non-Iraqis, ie a bigot-- a very mild benign bigot.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #70 - July 21, 2010, 02:58 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 21, 2010, 02:43 PM
    It is deception. I totally agree. But I'm not sure it's the type pf deception that should be prosecuted. Or do you believe any deception should be a crime?


    That depends on what forms of deception are punishable according the law where the event took place and it depends if the victim is willing to press charges.  If she is and that sort of deception is punished then she can do so.  Once one deceives there are risks one must face.

    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 21, 2010, 02:43 PM
    Yes, there is some irresponsibility on his part.
    Besides, like I said it might be argued she entraped him into statutory rape which is a crime in itself.


    If I'm not mistaken by statutory rape, you mean sex with someone who cannot give consent right? One of the ways she could have done that is by lying about her age and willfully deceiving, how else could she have done it?

    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 21, 2010, 02:43 PM
    What did this gentlemen entrap her into?


    How could he have entrapped her into anything when it was illegal for her to even be in the nightclub because of her age?  And yet he was charged with corrupting a minor..  
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #71 - July 21, 2010, 03:02 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on July 21, 2010, 02:45 PM
    My dad told me I can marry any race as long as she converts to Islam and isn't black. Because black people steal and belong in dangerous gangs. He has valid concerns too.


    Well that doesn't have anything to do with the issue we're discussing, does it?  This isn't about racism per se'.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #72 - July 21, 2010, 03:02 PM
    lol yeah i know. juss trollin.  cool2  grin12
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #73 - July 21, 2010, 03:05 PM
    my bad..  i forgot  Cheesy
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #74 - July 21, 2010, 03:20 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on July 21, 2010, 02:58 PM
    That depends on what forms of deception are punishable according the law where the event took place and it depends if the victim is willing to press charges.  If she is and that sort of deception is punished then she can do so.  Once one deceives there are risks one must face.

    Exactly. Not all forms of deception should be punishable by law. In this case, I don't think his deception is worthy of prosecution. From a purely legal point of view, he's not different from the guy who pretends he has an olympic silver medal.


    Quote from: ras111 on July 21, 2010, 02:58 PM
    If I'm not mistaken by statutory rape, you mean sex with someone who cannot give consent right? One of the ways she could have done that is by lying about her age and willfully deceiving, how else could she have done it?

    Statutory rape: sexual relations with minor, the offence of having sexual relations with somebody who has not reached the legal age of consent.
    Even if the victim was not forced, it's still rape because the victim is under the age of consent.
    So if a 14 year old tells me she wants to blow me and I know she's really into it, I would still be guilty of statutory rape. 
    If I didn't know she was under the age of consent (or she fooled me into it), I need to ask a lawyer.

    Quote from: ras111 on July 21, 2010, 02:58 PM
    How could he have entrapped her into anything when it was illegal for her to even be in the nightclub because of her age?  And yet he was charged with corrupting a minor..  

    I was referring to the Arab guy.
    What I'm trying to say is: it could be argued that in your scenario by deceiving him the 13-year-old girl entraped the 17-year-old into statutory rape.
    This man (the Arab) deceived the Israeli woman into having consensual sex.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #75 - July 21, 2010, 03:23 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on July 21, 2010, 02:41 PM
    Bullshit.  Plenty of girls in nightclubs are there deliberately looking for a one night stand.


    It was just an expression, not meant to be taken literally. The point is, girls are fooled by guys looking for one night stands, at night clubs, all the time. The opposite might of course also occur. You can not take people to court for such trivial matters in most western countries, I'd be quite surprised if you could (especially if you could get them convicted too).

    Quote from: Cheetah on July 21, 2010, 02:41 PM
    Oh, here we go.   Roll Eyes


    Go with what? All I'm saying is that if she was a virgin and wanted to preserve her virginity, I could see the big fuss. But this is someone who goes to a nearby building right after meeting people to have sex with them. In other words, having premarital sex is no big deal for her. Therefore there really is not much to cry wolf for, because she does not seem to be the type who only sleeps with people who she is in long term relationships with.

    Quote from: Cheetah on July 21, 2010, 02:41 PM
    Fuck the cultural viewpoint, that's just over complicating it.  She was looking for one thing, which he pretended to offer, and he lied.  He's a shit, end of.  The Israeli law is an ass in this case, but let's not gloss over his faults either.

    Again, its got nothing to do with culture, its a simple case of deception.  He must be one desparately ugly bollocks if he has to pretend to be a Jew looking for marriage in order to get a woman to sleep with him.  


    I find if weird that she'd sleep with someone she just met the same night, just because he promised to marry her, if she is the kind who is looking for long term relationships. I mean, she barely knows him, but still have sex with him, and then goes crying to the authorities, when she finds out that he does not belong to the correct race.

    Would she sleep with any jew male who promised to marry her?
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #76 - July 21, 2010, 03:30 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 21, 2010, 03:20 PM

    What I'm trying to say is: it could be argued that in your scenario by deceiving him the 13-year-old girl entraped the 17-year-old into statutory rape.
    This man (the Arab) deceived the Israeli woman into having consensual sex.


    Yes it could, only it cannot be classified as statutory rape as she was neither a minor nor was she mentally impaired
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #77 - July 21, 2010, 03:33 PM
    absurd really.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #78 - July 21, 2010, 03:42 PM
    While I don't agree with deceiving someone, charging someone with rape is ludicrous and insults all those women who actually have had to go through something as horrendous as rape.

    I'm sure there are other charges she could have filed against him, but this just takes the piss!
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #79 - July 21, 2010, 03:44 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on July 21, 2010, 03:30 PM
    Yes it could, only it cannot be classified as statutory rape as she was neither a minor nor was she mentally impaired

    Who are you referring to?
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #80 - July 21, 2010, 03:47 PM
    The Israeli woman
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #81 - July 21, 2010, 03:49 PM
    Exactly. Which is why this is different from the secnario of the 13-year-old deceiving the 17-year-old into having sex with her.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #82 - July 21, 2010, 04:02 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 21, 2010, 02:09 PM
    What type of fraud does that fall into?
    Again, I'm debating the legal aspect of the situation not the morality of it.

    In England he would be guilty of obtaining sex under false pretences:
    Section 3 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #83 - July 21, 2010, 04:05 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 21, 2010, 03:49 PM
    Exactly. Which is why this is different from the secnario of the 13-year-old deceiving the 17-year-old into having sex with her.


    I didn't say it was the same situation did I?  My point was that for both to happen, there needed to be willful deception.

    In the case of the 13 year old girl, the guy could be charged with statutory rape because she was a minor, as regards the Israeli technically speaking she couldn't accuse him of that but then depends on the law system.

      Willful deception is in most cases (as far as I know) a separate charge under most penal codes.  That said, in the end it is pointless arguing about what he should have been accused of.   That depends on the Israeli penal code and what  charges it allows to brought forward, depending on the situation.   He deceived her willingly and if she found a legal way (even if the accusation was not accurate) to get back at him then tough luck.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #84 - July 21, 2010, 06:48 PM
    Quote from: hupla on July 21, 2010, 04:02 PM
    In England he would be guilty of obtaining sex under false pretences:
    Section 3 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/revisedstatutes/acts/ukpga/1956/cukpga_19560069_en_2#pt1-pb1-l1g3

    What qualifies as "false pretences" though?



    Quote from: ras111 on July 21, 2010, 04:05 PM
    I didn't say it was the same situation did I?  My point was that for both to happen, there needed to be willful deception.

    In the case of the 13 year old girl, the guy could be charged with statutory rape because she was a minor, as regards the Israeli technically speaking she couldn't accuse him of that but then depends on the law system.

      Willful deception is in most cases (as far as I know) a separate charge under most penal codes.  That said, in the end it is pointless arguing about what he should have been accused of.   That depends on the Israeli penal code and what  charges it allows to brought forward, depending on the situation.   He deceived her willingly and if she found a legal way (even if the accusation was not accurate) to get back at him then tough luck.

    Look I'm not trying to change Israeli law. I'm saying that this man shoudn't be charged for what he did regardless if where he lived.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #85 - July 22, 2010, 01:27 PM
    Its pure racism!
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #86 - July 22, 2010, 02:00 PM
    If we are going to lock guys up for lying to get into a girls pants we better build bigger jails. Also fraud is not rape
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #87 - July 22, 2010, 02:06 PM
    Had it been an arab girl who was lied to by a jewish man claiming to be an arab, would it have been "rape" then? Don't think so!
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #88 - July 22, 2010, 02:23 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on July 22, 2010, 02:06 PM
    Had it been an arab girl who was lied to by a jewish man claiming to be an arab, would it have been "rape" then? Don't think so!

    We can't assume that. The article says other men have been convicted of rape because they lied. This was not the first case.
    The Israeli justice system is not so bad. Obviously they fucked up here but overall they're OK.
  • Re: He was Arab so it was rape , unbelievable
     Reply #89 - July 22, 2010, 03:07 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist
    The Israeli justice system is not so bad. Obviously they fucked up here but overall they're OK.


    Worth a read.

    Justice for All? Jews and Arabs in the Israeli Criminal Justice System


    Whilst I think their system is far superior to that of their region, there are some serious flaws. Also, in recent years, with the drifting of society to the right, there has been an atack on the judiciary system whereby official institutions refrain from implementing court decisions and Parliament constantly draft laws that circumvent the highest court in the land anyway.

    Local and international laws that prohibit discrimination and incitement of racism don't mean very become a mockery when the judicial system deals as softly with it's abusers as it does. It may be faring well compared to others in the region, but let's not kid ourselves....Israel is a fairly racist society and the drifting to the right of it's politics, media & public opinion have not been good for Israeli's justice system.
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