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Theme Changer

 Topic: Moneylessness

 (Read 7677 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Moneylessness
     OP - July 22, 2010, 07:10 PM
    Is it possible to have a money-less society?
    A place that doesn't rely on primitive concepts of reward and punishment to get us to live happily and peacefully with each other? A place that has no need for ridiculous concepts like "private property"?
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #1 - July 22, 2010, 07:11 PM
    Mods please delete. Sorry. I made a lame comment.
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #2 - July 22, 2010, 07:11 PM
     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #3 - July 22, 2010, 07:15 PM
    I don't think it is possible but you never know what may happen in the future
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #4 - July 22, 2010, 07:15 PM
    Quote from: z10 on July 22, 2010, 07:10 PM
    Is it possible to have a money-less society?
    A place that doesn't rely on primitive concepts of reward and punishment to get us to live happily and peacefully with each other? A place that has no need for ridiculous concepts like "private property"?


    no
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #5 - July 22, 2010, 07:21 PM
    z10... it was agriculture that started all of this, once hunter/gatherers started
    to settle and domesticate crops and livestock.  EVERY culture flourished in leaps
    and bounds because of agriculture, but also, it was the CAUSE for every
    civilization that collapsed.  

    Then throw in the mix -- trade.  One area was abundant in one(or several
    things), and another area was the reverse of those same things, hence
    the evolution of trade for necessity, as well as exoctic goods were
    was born.  

    Then came the exploitation of recourses, and a constant migration to
    look for more.  A great example of this was the anasazi civilization in north america
    and the aztecs in south america.  

    It is theorized that the mammoths (and other mega-flora and fauna)
    went extinct shortly after man showed up on
    their trail, from the berring straight into north america.  It was NOT
    soley climate change, as some have theorized.  

    my point is, there's no going back, really, and as long as one
    region is in need of something, and another region can supply it,
    there will always be some sort of currency or exchange to meet
    the needs.
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #6 - July 22, 2010, 07:25 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on July 22, 2010, 07:15 PM
    no

    Well said! Cheesy
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #7 - July 22, 2010, 07:31 PM
    People will always need a measure of the value of goods and services.
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #8 - July 22, 2010, 07:35 PM
    Quote from: z10 on July 22, 2010, 07:10 PM
    Is it possible to have a money-less society?
    A place that doesn't rely on primitive concepts of reward and punishment to get us to live happily and peacefully with each other? A place that has no need for ridiculous concepts like "private property"?


    Behold ....

    The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World

    Highly recommend it Smiley
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #9 - July 22, 2010, 07:40 PM
    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- John Kenneth Galbraith

    Quotes aside,
    I think there has to be a level of (dare I say it) Darwinian-style competitiveness for society to survive and progress.  If there is no concept of private property, then humans will just become lazy buggers, and we could go extinct pretty soon.

    But to be honest, I haven't given this sufficient thought.  Tongue
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #10 - July 22, 2010, 07:41 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 22, 2010, 07:31 PM
    People will always need a measure of the value of goods and services.


    ^

    Quote from: olweasel on July 22, 2010, 07:25 PM
    Well said! Cheesy


    thanx, my m0m always sed i was a deep thinkar
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #11 - July 22, 2010, 07:48 PM
    Quote from: Jinn and Tonic on July 22, 2010, 07:21 PM
    z10... it was agriculture that started all of this, once hunter/gatherers started
    to settle and domesticate crops and livestock.  EVERY culture flourished in leaps
    and bounds because of agriculture, but also, it was the CAUSE for every
    civilization that collapsed.  


    Even hunter-gatherers must have bartered and traded. What if caveman made a beautiful seashell necklace? And someone else wanted it but was too lazy to make his own? Maybe 2 saber tooths are equivalent to the shell necklace? Once you assign value to and belonging to things - you're one step away from money.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #12 - July 22, 2010, 08:00 PM
    Quote from: ateapotist on July 22, 2010, 07:40 PM
    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- John Kenneth Galbraith


     Cheesy Cheesy
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #13 - July 22, 2010, 08:18 PM
    iblis!! i have a shell necklace... wanna trade?   Tongue
    *knows how to make REALLY good ndn trades, fer reelz*

    of course there was trade then, as well. but it was agriculture that really
    took it to the next level and beyond, and creation of currency, as we
    understand it today.

    BRAVO ateapotsit!!  (re: your quote)
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #14 - July 22, 2010, 08:24 PM
    capitalism = max ouput, max consumer satisfaction, max innovation.

    all because humans are incorrigibly selfish and respond to selfish incentives.

    command and control structures try and override this selfishness (the army e.g.)

    i have no clue what alternative non private property / non state anarchists have in mind, but whatever they do have in mind probably doesn't work.
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #15 - July 22, 2010, 09:48 PM
    Quote
    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- John Kenneth Galbraith


    never heard that before but its a keeper  Cheesy
    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #16 - July 22, 2010, 09:52 PM
    Quote from: Kaffir Latte on July 22, 2010, 09:48 PM
    never heard that before but its a keeper  Cheesy

    I heard it in some atheist podcast I listened to many months ago.  Smiley
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #17 - July 22, 2010, 10:00 PM
    Quote from: Jinn and Tonic on July 22, 2010, 07:21 PM


    my point is, there's no going back, really, and as long as one
    region is in need of something, and another region can supply it,
    there will always be some sort of currency or exchange to meet
    the needs.


    Being moneyless is incredibly easy - all that is required is one maxim to adopted by everybody:-

    I will share everything in the world with everyone if everyone in the world shares it with me too.

    So the question is not one of how such a world would work but rather do we have the maturity and confidence to partake in this spirit of sharing?
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #18 - July 22, 2010, 10:02 PM
    Quote from: z10 on July 22, 2010, 10:00 PM
    I will share everything in the world with everyone if everyone in the world shares it with me too.


    Fuck that!

    Quote from: z10 on July 22, 2010, 10:00 PM
    do we have the maturity and confidence to partake in this spirit of sharing?


    nope
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #19 - July 22, 2010, 10:10 PM
    Quote from: z10 on July 22, 2010, 10:00 PM
    I will share everything in the world with everyone if everyone in the world shares it with me too.

    So the question is not one of how such a world would work but rather do we have the maturity and confidence to partake in this spirit of sharing?


    This sounds great.  I suppose humans can learn to be like that, but it will surely take a lot of time.  Firstly we will somehow have to eradicate greed from humans? But is that possible? Through education maybe? Or is it so innate in us, that it is impossible?

    Maybe just another utopia.
    'The greatest glory of living lies not in never falling but in rising everytime you fall'
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #20 - July 22, 2010, 10:13 PM
    I don't think greed is innate, after all do you think kids born into such a world would be greedy even though they have no example of greed to follow?
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #21 - July 22, 2010, 10:14 PM
    Why is want equal to greed? Greed is highly subjective and everyone has a different level at which one considers basic wants as greed. Wanting anything beyond food and water can be considered greed.. where do you draw the line.. and whos draws that line?


    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #22 - July 22, 2010, 10:17 PM
    But all your wants will be satisfied Iblis, you will own everything collectively with everyone else. You will get absolutely everything you want, and so will everyone else. The only thing asked of you is not to hoard anything for yourself exclusively.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #23 - July 22, 2010, 10:19 PM
    Are you just playing around or are you serious?

    I want what you want and there is only one of that thing. And I want it to myself. Not to share. What then?
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #24 - July 22, 2010, 10:19 PM
    Quote from: z10 on July 22, 2010, 10:13 PM
    I don't think greed is innate, after all do you think kids born into such a world would be greedy even though they have no example of greed to follow?


    You're right, it is a learned behaviour.  
    'The greatest glory of living lies not in never falling but in rising everytime you fall'
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #25 - July 22, 2010, 10:22 PM
    I've seen children aged few months to 5 in day-care for 4 years of my life (mom ran it)... and kids fight over toys all the time. Wanting and greed is natural, not learnt.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #26 - July 22, 2010, 10:24 PM
    Quote from: z10 on July 22, 2010, 10:17 PM
    But all your wants will be satisfied Iblis, you will own everything collectively with everyone else. You will get absolutely everything you want, and so will everyone else. The only thing asked of you is not to hoard anything for yourself exclusively.

    Hey, I'm up for that.  But what about the Iblis's, as per his post below, that wont comply?  
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  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #27 - July 22, 2010, 10:30 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on July 22, 2010, 10:19 PM
    Are you just playing around or are you serious?

    I want what you want and there is only one of that thing. And I want it to myself. Not to share. What then?


    Then you clearly don't want to share but you already said that above.
    Yes, I am serious, there is nothing I own or could own that I wouldn't share happily with everyone.  Smiley
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #28 - July 22, 2010, 10:34 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on July 22, 2010, 10:24 PM
    Hey, I'm up for that.  But what about the Iblis's, as per his post below, that wont comply?  


    Then it cannot work. Every single person in the world has to take the decision to live this way personally and maturely. If even one person rejects it then it is impssible to implement.

    One common problem highlighted with this sharing method is that nothing gets done, but I contend that if I have absolutely all my wants satsified I will do even more for everyone else than before, I'll cook more meals for us to share, I'll help build houses, hopspitals and so on because I would want to share it with everyone, it would be for my own benefit.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Moneylessness
     Reply #29 - July 22, 2010, 10:38 PM
    Quote from: z10 on July 22, 2010, 10:34 PM
    Then it cannot work. Every single person in the world has to take the decision to live this way personally and maturely. If even one person rejects it then it is impssible to implement.

    One common problem highlighted with this sharing method is that nothing gets done, but I contend that if I have absolutely all my wants satsified I will do even more for everyone else than before, I'll cook more meals for us to share, I'll help build houses, hopspitals and so on because I would want to share it with everyone, it would be for my own benefit.


    If everyone were like you it'd be a perfect world. But then there's me.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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