Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #180 - August 02, 2010, 01:00 PM

Quote from: DH on August 02, 2010, 06:54 AM
_truth_, I should broaden your range of historical reading material beyond "The Ornament of the World"!!!!

I had to go so just left a short and disparaging note for -truth-.

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #181 - August 02, 2010, 01:03 PM

Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 02, 2010, 09:04 AM
The fact that people are already praying there meaning its already a mosque.

And how long have they been using the building as a mosque? I asked Q-man this question but he was unable or (more likely) unwilling to answer it.

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #182 - August 02, 2010, 01:23 PM

Quote from: "_truth_"
link=topic=11607.msg323433#msg323433 date=1280729895
Maybe because if you compare it in its actual time and not progressive mindset of the 21st century, you will see that for its time it was tolerant.

At its least intolerant periods it was more "tolerant" than contemporary Christian Europe lands at their most intolerant. At its most intolerant it was more intolerant than contemporary Christian European lands at their least intolerant.

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Especially comparing it to its Christian Counterpart, it was a lot more peaceful.

So the emirate/caliphate of cordoba never engaged in anything that could be described as "military attacks" against its non-Muslim neighbors?

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During this time the christians were too busy killing of every one that was not a christian and the Catholic Church making tons of of money and wealth from serfdom.

So Islamic Spain was some kind of socialistic paradise at perpetual peace with itself and the wider world by comparison was it?

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Are you seriously trying to compare 14th Century civilization to modern day civilization?

We are not talking about the 14th century we are talking about the period of the Cordoba emirate/caliphate (c756-1031). Now If you want to talk about the 14th century....Do you?

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Because your comment " How can a sharia state where people werejudicially murdered for "insulting" Islam stand for "progress" is a 21st progressive ideology. And no it didn't stem from your christian buddies. It stemmed from 20th Century Progressive movement. Liberal Ideology

Then tell people like z10 not to superimpose "20th century" western concepts like "progress" on a centuries-long-gone Muslim-ruled hell hole.

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #183 - August 02, 2010, 01:24 PM

Quote from: Q-Man on August 02, 2010, 06:14 AM
I really do hope you top off, DH.

And why is that pray?

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #184 - August 02, 2010, 01:34 PM

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #185 - August 02, 2010, 01:45 PM

Quote from: DH on August 02, 2010, 01:03 PM
And how long have they been using the building as a mosque? I asked Q-man this question but he was unable or (more likely) unwilling to answer it.

According to This Article those who have been holding prayer meetings ALREADY have a mosque - the "Masjid al-Farah" - on Broadway. I assume this is the place:

So when did they decide to amble down to 25 Park Place?

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #186 - August 02, 2010, 02:17 PM

One Raymond Ibrahim makes the point very well:

The very name of the initiative itself, "Cordoba," offers different connotations to different people: In the West, the Andalusian city of Cordoba is regularly touted as the model of medieval Muslim progressiveness and tolerance for Christians and Jews. To many Americans, then, the choice to name the mosque "Cordoba" is suggestive of rapprochement and interfaith dialogue; atop the rubble of 9/11, it implies "healing"—a new beginning between Muslims and Americans. The Cordoba Initiative's mission statement certainly suggests as much:

Cordoba Initiative aims to achieve a tipping point in Muslim-West relations within the next decade, bringing back the atmosphere of interfaith tolerance and respect that we have longed for since Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together in harmony and prosperity eight hundred years ago.

Oddly enough, the so-called "tolerant" era of Cordoba supposedly occurred during the caliphate of 'Abd al-Rahman III (912-961)—well over a thousand years ago. "Eight hundred years ago," i.e., around 1200, the fanatical Almohids—ideological predecessors of al-Qaeda—were ravaging Cordoba, where "Christians and Jews were given the choice of conversion, exile, or death."

FULL ARTICLE

The question is do the Cordoba Initiative really believe this "Multifaith shangri-la that was al-Andalus" garbage? what do you think Iblis?

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #187 - August 02, 2010, 02:48 PM

DH said: At its least intolerant periods it was more "tolerant" than contemporary Christian Europe lands at their most intolerant. At its most intolerant it was more intolerant than contemporary Christian European lands at their least intolerant.

And how does that relate to the HERE AND NOW?
If in fact muslims HAD been praying there
before, WHY all the big news and hoopla announcements
of their "monument" 1 1/2 blocks
away from ground zero? Hmmmm?? And yes....
how did they come up with that kind of
money to purchase that property?

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #188 - August 02, 2010, 03:05 PM

Jinn and Tonic. A long-gone Islamic state in the Iberian peninsula has ZERO relevence to "here and now". If Muslims and Islam apologists would stop invoking some mythical "al-Andalus" that never was where Muslims, Christians and Jews "lived together" in orgasmic multifaith ecstacy under the firm but fair guiding hand of Islam and promoting it as a model to emulate we would not be having this discussion.

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #189 - August 02, 2010, 03:14 PM

Quote from: NineBerry on August 02, 2010, 01:34 PM

Iraq is not the US, they have different laws and even then I would still oppose the US if they decided to build a pentecostal church or something associated with them in Baghdad. Stupid cartoon really.

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #190 - August 02, 2010, 03:15 PM

The Conversion of the Moors
from the Cathedral at Granada, late 15th-early 16th century

The above picture graphically illustrates the REALITIES - as opposed to the romance - of Islamic Spain. That is how Muslim women were made to dress by Muslim men. Note, this was several centuries before "Wahaabism" and "Arab oil money" were "radicalizing" Muslims.

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #191 - August 02, 2010, 03:16 PM

Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 02, 2010, 09:04 AM
The fact that people are already praying there meaning its already a mosque.

Then they don't have to formalise it, do they? If they start praying in my toilet, would that have to become a mosque as well?

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #192 - August 02, 2010, 03:18 PM

Quote from: ras111 on August 02, 2010, 03:14 PM
Iraq is not the US, they have different laws

So? The Bill of Rights codifies universal, natural rights, it does not create them.

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #193 - August 02, 2010, 03:21 PM

Quote from: Q-Man on August 02, 2010, 03:18 PM
So? The Bill of Rights codifies universal, natural rights, it does not create them.

So do the Americans have a right to build a church in Baghdad? Isn't it the Iraqi government that gives permission?

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #194 - August 02, 2010, 03:22 PM

Quote from: ras111 on August 02, 2010, 03:21 PM
So do the Americans have a right to build a church in Baghdad?

Not sure if Americans have that right, but the Iraqis certainly do.

Quote
Isn't it the Iraqi government that gives permission?

Yeah, so?

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #195 - August 02, 2010, 03:26 PM

actually, if there is a bar on either side, this could be kind of funny LOL
Can imagine the beer songs during athan

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #196 - August 02, 2010, 03:31 PM

Quote from: Q-Man on August 02, 2010, 03:22 PM
Not sure if Americans have that right, but the Iraqis certainly do.

The Iraqis certainly do, the thing is that the US invasion was definitely not the result of Christian piety as the cartoon seems to suggest. The Islamists on the other hand were directly influenced by religion. If the government there is responsible it would not allow the building of American churches or symbols near sensitive sites though.

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #197 - August 02, 2010, 03:34 PM

Quote from: ras111 on August 02, 2010, 03:16 PM
Then they don't have to formalise it, do they? If they start praying in my toilet, would that have to become a mosque as well?

as long as there's at least two of them LMAO!!!

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #198 - August 02, 2010, 05:20 PM

Quote from: DH on August 02, 2010, 01:03 PM
And how long have they been using the building as a mosque? I asked Q-man this question but he was unable or (more likely) unwilling to answer it.

Don't know.
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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #199 - August 02, 2010, 05:22 PM

Quote from: ras111 on August 02, 2010, 03:16 PM
Then they don't have to formalise it, do they? If they start praying in my toilet, would that have to become a mosque as well?

Formalise what?! Do you mean the construction of a community centre (for all) a swimming pool, and other services? Yes! Could they have chosen a better time and been more sensitive? yes! You can't pray in a bathroom.
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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #200 - August 02, 2010, 05:25 PM

Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 02, 2010, 05:22 PM
Formalise what?! Do you mean the construction of a community centre (for all) a swimming pool, and other services? Yes! Could they have chosen a better time and been more sensitive? yes! You can't pray in a bathroom.

Formalise it as place of worship by building a minaret and stuff. Why can't you pray in a toilet? Isn't allah everywhere? Doesn't he hear you from a toilet?

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #201 - August 02, 2010, 05:27 PM

I haven't heard anything about a minaret. Don't know why you'd need 1 either with a building like that. Oh so now muslims can't even build a swimming pool and centre for all? Coz its unclean to pray in a toilet. You might be able to pray in a large bathroom :p
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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #202 - August 02, 2010, 05:29 PM

No you're not.
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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #203 - August 02, 2010, 05:38 PM

Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 02, 2010, 05:27 PM
I haven't heard anything about a minaret. Don't know why you'd need 1 either with a building like that. Oh so now muslims can't even build a swimming pool and centre for all? Coz its unclean to pray in a toilet. You might be able to pray in a large bathroom :p

I edited my post.

I meant building a mosque where they pray. Your argument was that since they pray there, it was already one. Therefore if it is already one then they can leave the building as it is, as it serves its function just as well without the embellishments. If it's unclean then your allah shouldn't have created germs and diseases and willed for people to urinate or defecate.

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #204 - August 02, 2010, 05:44 PM

So now you have a problem with muslims fixing/decorating a building that happens to also be a place of worship? right. Yes well such things exist so we have to go some place clean. This 'point' some ppl try to make of Allah making us do things is pointless-get on with life lazy ppl!
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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #205 - August 02, 2010, 06:01 PM

Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 02, 2010, 05:44 PM
So now you have a problem with muslims fixing/decorating a building that happens to also be a place of worship? right. Yes well such things exist so we have to go some place clean. This 'point' some ppl try to make of Allah making us do things is pointless-get on with life lazy ppl!

I don't have problems actually. I'm just asking you why they need to rebuild it if performs it's function just fine.. I'd have said the same thing if they wanted to build a cathedral.

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #206 - August 02, 2010, 06:33 PM

because they want the swimming pool and stuff! And I love Islamic architecture so if it had a minaret I'd be happy the debate really isn't about the mosque, construction or the other services. Its about the opening date that is wrong.
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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #207 - August 02, 2010, 07:04 PM

Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 02, 2010, 06:33 PM
because they want the swimming pool and stuff! And I love Islamic architecture so if it had a minaret I'd be happy the debate really isn't about the mosque, construction or the other services. Its about the opening date that is wrong.

No the debate is about the location. Ethically speaking the location is far more objectionable than the opening date.

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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #208 - August 02, 2010, 08:08 PM

Quote from: Q-Man on August 02, 2010, 03:18 PM
So? The Bill of Rights codifies universal, natural rights, it does not create them.

The existence of "universal rights" or "natural rights" is arguable.
You are taking it for granted as an axiom.

Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
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Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
Reply #209 - August 02, 2010, 09:16 PM

Quote from: ras111 on August 02, 2010, 07:04 PM
No the debate is about the location. Ethically speaking the location is far more objectionable than the opening date.

How far would you like it to be away from the WTC?
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