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 Topic: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"

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  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #240 - August 03, 2010, 10:16 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on August 03, 2010, 09:57 AM
    Using Vatican City is a stupid comparison.
    It lacks the physical space to build anything.

    You should say "that's like building a Mosque or a Synagogue in Rome".
    Except you cannot say that since it would prove your point wrong :S


    No its not. Its a holy city just like Mecca is. Don't build just convert a small room into a mosque, no? No Rome is completely different there even ghaddafi is allowed to preach Islam to italian models wacko
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #241 - August 03, 2010, 10:35 AM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 03, 2010, 10:16 AM
    No its not. Its a holy city just like Mecca is. Don't build just convert a small room into a mosque, no? No Rome is completely different there even ghaddafi is allowed to preach Islam to italian models wacko

    A small room of what?
    The state administration buildings? :S
    And let non-citizens enter the state administrative buildings as they wish?

    Or, are you suggesting they should convert some of their rooms to a Mosque and a Synagogue for the Vatican citizens who are Muslim or Jew? (Which are zero, as far as I know)

    Still, stupid comparison ^_^
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #242 - August 03, 2010, 10:37 AM
    As much as the Catholic Church sucks cocks, I am pretty sure that if they granted Vatican citizenship to a Muslim, they would give him a room in a Vatican building for his prayers.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #243 - August 03, 2010, 10:39 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on August 03, 2010, 10:02 AM
    Interesting choice of words.
    Are you saying you are NOT Christian?
    Or that you do not "regard yourself" as Christian but do not exclude the possibility that maybe you are indeed Christian?


    I have been repeatedly told here that a "Muslim" is anyone who wishes to define themselves as such and that this self-definition should be accepted regardless of how closely a person's beliefs and practices concur with the Koran. Indeed, I have even been informed that a person who does not believe in hell should be accepted as a Muslim if they wish to define themselves as such.  Therefore shouldn't my own self-definition of "not Christian" by the same token be likewise unquestioningly accepted?

    That said, my own view is that a person must accept certain basic doctrines to qualify as a member of a particular religion. I do not call myself a Christian because I cannot, by any objective criteria, seriously view myself as one since I do not regard the bible as anything but a collection of myths and legends which I do not to any degree use as a source of moral guidance. Nor do I go to church.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #244 - August 03, 2010, 10:47 AM
    Quote from: DH on August 03, 2010, 10:39 AM
    I have been repeatedly told here that a "Muslim" is anyone who wishes to define themselves as such and that this self-definition should be accepted regardless of how closely a person's beliefs and practices concur with the Koran. Indeed, I have even been informed that a person who does not believe in hell should be accepted as a Muslim if they wish to define themselves as such.  Therefore shouldn't my own self-definition of "not Christian" by the same token be likewise unquestioningly accepted?

    If you are asking me, then: no.
    I do not think anyone should be considered "Muslim" just because they say they are one.
    Just like somebody should not be considered "President of the Universe" just because they say they are one.

    And I doubt that I am the only one in here to have such opinion.

    Quote from: DH on August 03, 2010, 10:39 AM
    That said, my own view is that a person must accept certain basic doctrines to qualify as a member of a particular religion. I do not call myself a Christian because I cannot, by any objective criteria, seriously view myself as one since I do not regard the bible as anything but a collection of myths and legends which I do not to any degree use as a source of moral guidance. Nor do I go to church.

    Kk.
    To summarize for everyone: you are not Christian.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #245 - August 03, 2010, 10:57 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on August 03, 2010, 10:35 AM
    A small room of what?
    Or, are you suggesting they should convert some of their rooms to a Mosque and a Synagogue for the Vatican citizens who are Muslim or Jew? (Which are zero, as far as I know)

    Still, stupid comparison ^_^


    Yeah that's what I'm suggesting a small room would do. Talking about citizenship.........isn't it the law in saudi that only muslims get citizenship?
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #246 - August 03, 2010, 11:06 AM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX
    Mecca? That's like building a Mosque or a Synagogue in Vatican city!You could argue they should allow churches in Saudi but not in Mecca or Medina


    Quote from: XxThaminaxX
    [Rome is] a holy city just like Mecca is.


    That's right, XxThaminaxX. So the proper comparison IS, as Tlaloc says, between Mecca and Rome and NOT between Mecca and the vatican city. Building a mosque in the Vatican would be like building a church within the Ka'aba area and not in Mecca per se.

    As it is a mosque HAS been permitted to be built in the "Holy City" of Rome:



    Therefore, requesting to build a similarly imposing christian structure in Mecca would be a reasonable request from  Christians to Muslims for reciprocation in kind.

    As we have established that the proper comparison is between Rome and Mecca (rather than the Vatican City and Mecca), then it follows as  perfectly reasonable for American Christians and Jews to demand reciprocation from Muslims wanting to build an imposing mosque in New York by being granted permission to build likewise imposing non-Islamic places of worship in Mecca or Medina.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #247 - August 03, 2010, 11:12 AM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 03, 2010, 10:57 AM
    Yeah that's what I'm suggesting a small room would do. Talking about citizenship.........isn't it the law in saudi that only muslims get citizenship?

    No idea.
    If Muslim men can marry Jewish and Christian women, then I guess Saudi men can get non-Muslim wives, in theory?
    Dunno about their citizenship though.

    Ah, plus I think you are wrong about something else:
    The Vatican City state is not considered "holy" by any Catholic dogma.
    St. Peter's Basilica is holy, but not all the non-religious buildings.

    And, anyway, another big difference with Islam is that anyone of any faith is allowed inside any "holy site" of the Catholic Church that is open to the public.
    They never ask for proof of Catholicism ^_^
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #248 - August 03, 2010, 11:14 AM
    DH, Rome is not a "holy" city.
    Not even the Vatican soil is "holy" per se.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #249 - August 03, 2010, 12:22 PM
    Forgive me if I'm wrong but the Grand Mosque in Mecca makes up almost all of Mecca
    Quote from: DH on August 03, 2010, 11:06 AM
    That's right, XxThaminaxX. So the proper comparison IS, as Tlaloc says, between Mecca and Rome and NOT between Mecca and the vatican city. Building a mosque in the Vatican would be like building a church within the Ka'aba area and not in Mecca per se.

    As it is a mosque HAS been permitted to be built in the "Holy City" of Rome:

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Therefore, requesting to build a similarly imposing christian structure in Mecca would be a reasonable request from  Christians to Muslims for reciprocation in kind.

    As we have established that the proper comparison is between Rome and Mecca (rather than the Vatican City and Mecca), then it follows as  perfectly reasonable for American Christians and Jews to demand reciprocation from Muslims wanting to build an imposing mosque in New York by being granted permission to build likewise imposing non-Islamic places of worship in Mecca or Medina.



    Rome isn't a holy city there's a lot of stuff that goes on there that would get the popes knickers in a twist! So no you can't compare Rome and Mecca (everything in mecca is built for and around the grand mosque you can't say the same for rome) and NY has nothing to do with Christianity. And its not "imposing" nor are they building a mosque.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #250 - August 03, 2010, 01:05 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 03, 2010, 12:22 PM
    (everything in mecca is built for and around the grand mosque you can't say the same for rome)

    Technically not true.
    If the Grand Mosque had not existed, or if Islam had not existed, the city of Mecca would have existed anyway: there were people living there to begin with.

    You can only argue that Islam made it so big and/or important.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #251 - August 03, 2010, 03:52 PM
    And? Rome existed well before Christians adopted pagan europe holidays and called it Catholicism but the Vatican didn't making the Vatican like modern-day Mecca :p
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #252 - August 03, 2010, 03:59 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 03, 2010, 03:52 PM
    And? Rome existed well before Christians adopted pagan europe holidays and called it Catholicism but the Vatican didn't making the Vatican like modern-day Mecca :p

    Can we stick to logic?

    You: Mecca is built for and around the Grand Mosque.
    Me: No. Mecca existed before it, and it would have still existed without it.
    You: Rome existed before Christianity but now it's not like modern-day Mecca.

    That's kinda non-sequitur.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #253 - August 03, 2010, 04:02 PM
    Even before Islam everything was centred around the kaabah  I'm sure it was it was like a major tourist attraction.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #254 - August 03, 2010, 04:03 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 03, 2010, 03:52 PM
    And? Rome existed well before Christians adopted pagan europe holidays and called it Catholicism but the Vatican didn't making the Vatican like modern-day Mecca :p

    I could very well say:

    "Mecca existed well before Muslims adopted pagan and Jewish customs and called it Islam."
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #255 - August 03, 2010, 04:09 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 03, 2010, 04:02 PM
    Even before Islam everything was centred around the kaabah  I'm sure it was it was like a major tourist attraction.

    Yeah, it was mentioned a lot in classical records.

    Oh wait, it wasn't :S
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #256 - August 03, 2010, 04:12 PM
    Quote from: olweasel on August 03, 2010, 04:03 PM
    I could very well say:

    "Mecca existed well before Muslims adopted pagan and Jewish customs and called it Islam."


    That's what I've said just above your post Smiley
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #257 - August 03, 2010, 04:13 PM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on August 03, 2010, 04:09 PM
    Yeah, it was mentioned a lot in classical records.

    Oh wait, it wasn't :S


    What are you trying to hint at? that we shouldn't trust what the muslim historians have stated? bet you're the 1st one to quote them and hadith when it comes to banu qurayza :p
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #258 - August 03, 2010, 04:17 PM
    Quoting Muslims on matters of their own history is like quoting Nazis on matters of the Holocaust.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #259 - August 03, 2010, 04:18 PM
    This is what I don't get you say muslim sources are biased when it shows the 'good' side of the Prophet (pbuh) and muslims but then you quote the very same things to show the 'bad' side. WTF?! Make your mind up.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #260 - August 03, 2010, 04:19 PM
    Quote from: DH on August 03, 2010, 11:06 AM
    That's right, XxThaminaxX. So the proper comparison IS, as Tlaloc says, between Mecca and Rome and NOT between Mecca and the vatican city. Building a mosque in the Vatican would be like building a church within the Ka'aba area and not in Mecca per se.

    As it is a mosque HAS been permitted to be built in the "Holy City" of Rome:

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Therefore, requesting to build a similarly imposing christian structure in Mecca would be a reasonable request from  Christians to Muslims for reciprocation in kind.

    As we have established that the proper comparison is between Rome and Mecca (rather than the Vatican City and Mecca), then it follows as  perfectly reasonable for American Christians and Jews to demand reciprocation from Muslims wanting to build an imposing mosque in New York by being granted permission to build likewise imposing non-Islamic places of worship in Mecca or Medina.



    Don't play nonsense and utter shit propaganda with me. Rome is not a "holy city" of any sort. The Vatican is. Therefore the comparing of Mecca to the Vatican is a perfect comparison.

    But even so comparing the two is remotely retarded, because Ground Zero isn't to us what Mecca is to Muslims or Vatican is to Catholics.

    Ground Zero to us is just a place where once the twin towers existed. Most New Yorkers don't even call it ground zero. Its some nonsense wish washy name given by the media. So keep religion out of the ground zero conversation.

    Gotta love these right wing imbeciles. Democrats backed legislature just got turned down because not enough of Republicans. It was a bill that would compensate the many New York emergency responders who were completely affected by the twin tower debris. Those retards all voted it down last week.

    But when it comes to their agenda, that's when they only care about 9/11 or anything to do with it
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #261 - August 03, 2010, 04:21 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 03, 2010, 04:13 PM
    What are you trying to hint at? that we shouldn't trust what the muslim historians have stated? bet you're the 1st one to quote them and hadith when it comes to banu qurayza :p


    The hadiths of the sahihs are considered as authentic according to Sunni Islam, so if you are a real Sunni you must accept them as the truth.  And even then in older times bragging about how you massacred your enemies and took their women was not something that was frowned upon, quite the contrary.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #262 - August 03, 2010, 04:21 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 03, 2010, 04:18 PM
    This is what I don't get you say muslim sources are biased when it shows the 'good' side of the Prophet (pbuh) and muslims but then you quote the very same things to show the 'bad' side. WTF?! Make your mind up.

    Well, think about it. People try to hide bad things and show good things about themselves. So when they say bad things about themselves, you can be pretty damn certain they actually happened, because they wouldn't make up shit that tarnishes their image. But when they say good things, you have to be skeptical, because they might just be trying to improve their image.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #263 - August 03, 2010, 04:21 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 03, 2010, 04:13 PM
    What are you trying to hint at? that we shouldn't trust what the muslim historians have stated? bet you're the 1st one to quote them and hadith when it comes to banu qurayza :p

    First, I do not care about Banu Qurayza.

    Second, even if I were to care about Banu Qurayza, I would trust "Muslim historians" only for everything that concerns what they claim that happened during or close to their lifetime.

    Which means that in no case I would trust "Muslim historians" when it comes to what was happening anywhere on planet earth more than a century before the existence of Islam and, thus, more than a century before the existence of said historian.

    I will be repetitive now: can you stick to logic?
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #264 - August 03, 2010, 04:23 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on August 03, 2010, 04:18 PM
    This is what I don't get you say muslim sources are biased when it shows the 'good' side of the Prophet (pbuh) and muslims but then you quote the very same things to show the 'bad' side. WTF?! Make your mind up.


    He's probably hinting that Muhammad was not an inheritly evil person, just your typical middle eastern warlord of his time.  He did some good stuff and he did bad stuff.  In other words he was a mere product of his time and environment.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #265 - August 03, 2010, 04:25 PM
    Quote from: Abood on July 28, 2010, 09:16 PM
    Maybe it's just me, but I think a lot of people are overreacting. For all you know, this might be a sign of progress. Perhaps some Muslims will realize that America is not the enemy, and that even though 9/11 was caused by Islamic extremists, Muslims are still allowed to practice their rights freely, and America is not waging a war against their religion after all.

    Building of the mosque on the site so close to the Ground Zero is like rubbing salt on the wound and it is extremely insensitive of Muslims. Muslims always have had the freedom of religion in the USA but they still consider the USA enemy of Islam. This will never change. Muslims will alwyas hate Israel, America and India in that order. Muslims have freedom of religion in Israel and India also, that fact is irrelevant as far as Muslims are concerned.
    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #266 - August 03, 2010, 04:26 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on August 03, 2010, 04:21 PM
    The hadiths of the sahihs are considered as authentic according to Sunni Islam, so if you are a real Sunni you must accept them as the truth.  And even then in older times bragging about how you massacred your enemies and took their women was not something that was frowned upon, quite the contrary.

    Besides that...

    There were no Muslims historians around 100+ years before Islam.

    So her whole argument is pointless.

    Contemporary sources = can be trusted to a certain extent
    Non-contemporary sources = pure speculation out of nowhere
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #267 - August 03, 2010, 04:27 PM
    This has already been covered, but considering this is NYC we're talking about, the distance isn't very close.

    Watch the video on page 7.
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #268 - August 03, 2010, 04:28 PM
    Well its done and over with.

    NYC Commission voted against Landmark Status.

    The Mosque is going up as planned. Its over. Im done with this thread
  • Re: Ground Zero Mosque being Called "Cordoba House"
     Reply #269 - August 03, 2010, 04:44 PM
    truth... next thing on the list is the blasphemy of having a bar on either side
    of the mosque.  Bank on it, they will be pissing about that, too.  Cuz I guarantee
    the two bars will be going nuts at every athan.  This, i am looking forward to,
    very much.
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
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