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 Topic: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat

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  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #120 - September 27, 2010, 08:29 PM
    Quote from: NineBerry on September 27, 2010, 08:25 PM
    It had been fulfilled before. Answer the question.


    Nineberry, are you really saying that people who feel that halal and kosher methods of slaughter are barbaric, are Nazis and 'Islamophobes'?

    I mean, do you think some of those animal advocacy groups quoted earlier fit those descriptions?

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #121 - September 27, 2010, 08:35 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 27, 2010, 08:27 PM
    This hypothesis has been shattered a thousand times. To call it the height of psuedoscience would be to confer too great an honour. And to call it downright folly would be too generous a characterisation, so I shall let the peer-reviewed scientific journals finally bury it:

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=plants-cannot-think-and-remember-bu-2010-07-16

    As NineBerry pointed out, the quote block to which you're replying should read:
    [quote author=a.ghazali link=topic=12576.msg349485#msg349485 date=1285617090]
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #122 - September 27, 2010, 08:39 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 27, 2010, 08:27 PM
    This hypothesis has been shattered a thousand times. To call it the height of psuedoscience would be to confer too great an honour. And to call it downright folly would be too generous a characterisation, so I shall let the peer-reviewed scientific journals finally bury it:

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=plants-cannot-think-and-remember-bu-2010-07-16


    It was me who said that, not Nineberry. I'll look at the article. I know plants do not have the nervous system or brains to experience life and feelings as sentient beings. But based on some experiments I've heard about the conclusions are that they do react to certain external stimuli. But I will research further.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #123 - September 27, 2010, 08:40 PM
    Quote from: z10 on September 27, 2010, 08:02 PM
    I can understand the view. However, it seems to me that a moral stance is being taken but the death of a living thing (be it a rice plant even) is taken as morally neutral. Is it really? can we be so sure?


    Well, Singer's particular moral theory is based on the capacity to suffer, not the existence of some intrinsic value of biological life itself, human or otherwise. Hence why he advocates legalising euthanasia and abortion and the like.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #124 - September 27, 2010, 08:41 PM
    s
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #125 - September 27, 2010, 08:50 PM
    Quote from: billy on September 27, 2010, 08:29 PM
    Nineberry, are you really saying that people who feel that halal and kosher methods of slaughter are barbaric, are Nazis and 'Islamophobes'?
    I mean, do you think some of those animal advocacy groups quoted earlier fit those descriptions?


    I didn't say that. I said that people argue that Islam is not a religion because it practices halal slaughter. Let's use a different example:

    If someone smears a hateful message at a house, because Jews are living in it, then this is anti-semitism.
    If someone smears a hateful message at a house, because muslims are living in it, then this is ... What?
    bleed for me...kill for me...die for me
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #126 - September 27, 2010, 08:52 PM
    Quote
    I said that people argue that Islam is not a religion because it practices halal slaughter.


    No, you didn't quite say that.


    Quote
    If someone smears a hateful message at a house, because muslims are living in it, then this is ... What?


    Anti-Muslim bigotry.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #127 - September 27, 2010, 08:54 PM
    Quote from: billy on September 27, 2010, 08:52 PM
    No, you didn't quite say that.


    Yes. I did.

    Quote from: billy on September 27, 2010, 08:52 PM
    Anti-Muslim bigotry.


    In short: Islamophobia.
    bleed for me...kill for me...die for me
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #128 - September 27, 2010, 09:02 PM
    Quote from: NineBerry on September 27, 2010, 08:54 PM
    Islamophobia.


    What's wrong with disliking Islam?
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #129 - September 27, 2010, 09:02 PM
    Quote
    In short: Islamophobia


    No. It is anti-Muslim bigotry. Which is different from a generalised description of a phobia of a religion. Islam is a set of publically asserted ideas about the world, with deterministic ideas about social control, about how people should live, that enunciates judgment on its adherents, and value judgments on those who do not follow its tenets too.

    I'm sure you can gauge the distinction between criticism of Christianity, and a hatred of Christians.

    NineBerry, there are many people here who think that aspects of Islam are vile and barbaric.  Would you call them Islamophobic?




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #130 - September 27, 2010, 09:05 PM
    Some of them. Look, that's how language works. Words come to have a certain meaning. And the word "Islamophobia" is a term used for anti-muslim bigotry.

    You know, anti-semits are not opposed to a language familiy, still we use the term "anti-semitism".
    bleed for me...kill for me...die for me
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #131 - September 27, 2010, 09:12 PM
    Quote
    You know, anti-semits are not opposed to a language familiy, still we use the term "anti-semitism".

     

    Right, but that is a coinage from when, the 17th or 18th Century? When Jews were probably referred to as semites, and other terms that emphasised their 'semitic' difference in racial terms.

    Quote
    And the word "Islamophobia" is a term used for anti-muslim bigotry.

     

    No. Not always. It is also used to criticise and slander anyone who criticises Islam, for whatever they criticise it for. A phobia is a biological, psychologial condition. Do you really mean criticising or disliking aspects of Islam in part or in whole is a biological or psychological condition? That really is quite some pass.





    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #132 - September 27, 2010, 09:12 PM
    Islamophobia is such a piss-weak silly word. My eyes sort of glaze over whenever I hear it. It just reminds me of stuffy politicians appeasing and smirking and whining about nothing. Does anyone take that word seriously anyway? What is it, what does it mean? Fear of a silly and dangerous idea?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #133 - September 27, 2010, 09:13 PM
    Quote from: billy on September 27, 2010, 09:12 PM
    A phobia is a biological, psychologial condition. Do you really mean criticising or disliking aspects of Islam in part or in whole is a biological or psychological condition? That really is quite some pass.


    So, it is also wrong to use the word "Homophobia"?
    bleed for me...kill for me...die for me
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #134 - September 27, 2010, 09:14 PM
    s
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #135 - September 27, 2010, 09:17 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 27, 2010, 09:14 PM
    Desist from your imbecility or I will mount you like a bison.


    Nothing but empty promises
    bleed for me...kill for me...die for me
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #136 - September 27, 2010, 09:24 PM
    Quote
    So, it is also wrong to use the word "Homophobia"?


    Maybe, maybe not.

    The point is, though, that Homosexuality is not a religion, an ideology, a dogma, that declares itself to contain moral truth, that exercises social control, that prosletyses itself and claims temporal dominion on earth, with all the attendant judgment on individual freedoms and conscience, that morally polices its adherents and castigates its non adherents, and that asserts itself as part of the public space, offering its ideas as absolutist solutions for moral superiority, with a central core of texts containing rules for adherence, containing laws for conduct, and asserting the moral righteousness and superiority of itself over all other belief systems.

    Whereas homosexuals are just men who like to suck the cocks of other men.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #137 - September 27, 2010, 09:25 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 27, 2010, 09:14 PM
    @Billy & Nineberry

    Could you skirt-clutching girls kindly take your quarrel elsewhere please? Your irrelavent cat fight is obscuring my rifle's line of sight. Just how is one supposed to train his artillery fire on Z10 and Islame with this pandemonium? Desist from your imbecility or I will mount you like a bison.
     


    I fear no bison.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #138 - September 27, 2010, 09:30 PM
    Quote from: NineBerry on September 27, 2010, 09:05 PM
    Some of them. Look, that's how language works. Words come to have a certain meaning. And the word "Islamophobia" is a term used for anti-muslim bigotry.

    You know, anti-semits are not opposed to a language familiy, still we use the term "anti-semitism".

    You're struggling a bit here:  Arachnophobia = anti-spider bigotry Huh?  Really.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #139 - September 27, 2010, 09:35 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 27, 2010, 08:41 PM
    By definition inanimate objects like matter are destitute of feeling, of consciousness, in other words of sentience. What does sentience mean?

    –adjective

    1. having the power of perception by the senses; conscious.
    2. characterized by sensation and consciousness.

    On the larger contention of which creatures may be ascribed the faculty of sentience, it is clear that all living systems with a nervous system are endowed, to a greater or lesser extent, with the capacity to experience sensation. The bigger one's brain, the larger one's capacity for pleasure or pain. To this extent, Peter Singer contends that we should accord moral consideration to the degree a creature can live a meaningful life. So faced with the dilemma of choosing between a chimpanzee's life or a rat, one should accord more rights to the chimpanzee because of its greater capacity for a complex emotional and intellectual life than's the rat's. And so on across the biological continuum.

    sentience is a bloody noun- sentient is it's adjective and it's adverb.  And where did you get the conscious and consciousness defs from, I can't find them.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #140 - September 27, 2010, 09:43 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on September 27, 2010, 09:30 PM
    You're struggling a bit here:  Arachnophobia = anti-spider bigotry Huh?  Really.


    A definition of words is not based on its etymology, but on how it is used. The suffix -phobia is used in different context. For examples, the term hydrophobia is used in chemistry. The phenomenon Islamophobia exists. I don't care whether the term is badly chosen. There is no better term to use.

    bleed for me...kill for me...die for me
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #141 - September 27, 2010, 09:51 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 27, 2010, 06:42 AM
    Abolish kosher and halal rituals ASAP and tell any cleric that objects with my compliments to go to hell. What an irredeemably disgusting practice.

    What more civilized way to kill an animal than to pin it down and decapitate it?  sheikh

    Video 1
    Video 2
    Video 3

    EDIT: Preview censored upon request.
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #142 - September 27, 2010, 09:54 PM
    Quote from: DH on September 27, 2010, 01:44 PM
    You have a particular soft spot for the followers of Muhammad don't you Q?


    I have a soft spot for decent human beings, no matter what religious label they may affix to themselves. Conversely, I have nothing but contempt for total douchebags like you.
    fuck you
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #143 - September 27, 2010, 09:55 PM
    Quote from: Buttersnips on September 27, 2010, 09:51 PM
    What more civilized way to kill an animal than to pin it down and decapitate it?  sheikh

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igCBwerAfL8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12X5vqnfiKc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8akc0Q3jmA


    Posting videos of halal slaughter as an appeal to emotion-- how utterly predictable.

    fuck you
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #144 - September 27, 2010, 09:59 PM
    For fuck sake. Put those vids behind links.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #145 - September 27, 2010, 10:00 PM
    Quote from: NineBerry on September 27, 2010, 09:43 PM
    A definition of words is not based on its etymology, but on how it is used. The suffix -phobia is used in different context. For examples, the term hydrophobia is used in chemistry.


    Hydrophobia refers to rabies which is a disease. It is a medical term for an illness.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #146 - September 27, 2010, 10:05 PM
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrophobe
    bleed for me...kill for me...die for me
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #147 - September 27, 2010, 10:13 PM

    Ah, hydrophobia / hydrophobe, whats the difference.

    How science values accuracy of description and observation and clarity in naming.

    That should be a guiding principle for descriptions of all things.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #148 - September 27, 2010, 10:15 PM
    Quote from: DH on September 27, 2010, 01:44 PM
    And I am sure, Muslim, that your love for him is fully reciprocated. You have a particular soft spot for the followers of Muhammad don't you Q?

    So tell us, Muslim, do regard it as desirable that the day will come when the sharia of Allah rules supreme over the entirety of Allah's earth?

    While you've always been strident, tenaciously intolerant, and just plain annoying, you've never been impolite as far as I can tell.
    However, this post of yours crosses the line and it exposes your suffocating bigotry. I have lost all respect for you.


    Quote from: DH on September 27, 2010, 02:54 PM
    What, ain't I your friend? BTW could you please address the other part of my post to you regarding whether you think it is desirable that the law of Allah should prevail over the whole earth?

    And this post suggests you have a mental disorder. Now I pity you.


    Quote from: NineBerry on September 27, 2010, 02:54 PM
    3. The idea that supermarkets pander to muslims by selling halal meat that is not labelled as halal. He somehow has to think that there is some secret way in which muslims know that meat is halal even though it is not labelled as halal. Maybe some secret publications by the supermarkets that only muslims get to read where it says that "our meat is halal even though it is not labelled as such". Maybe he thinks that being able to sell halal meat to non-muslims without their knowledge somehow makes muslims happy. Maybe he thinks that eating halal meat can turn you into a muslim. Or maybe he thinks that that is what muslims believe?

    Thank you. This is the first thing that crossed my mind.
    -If they are pandering to Muslims then shouldn't they label it as Halal?
    -If it's not labelled as Halal, doesn't that mean they're doing it for economic reasons since they are corporations who don't give a fuck about externalities?
    -If we assume that they are doing it because they are pandering to Muslims, then how the fuck are these Muslims (the ones they are pandering to) are going to know that it is Halal meat?
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #149 - September 27, 2010, 10:26 PM
    .
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