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 Topic: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series

 (Read 60764 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 10 11 1213 14 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #330 - October 25, 2010, 02:07 PM

    Yeh I'm still waiting for my two questions to be answered...


    And still...
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #331 - October 25, 2010, 02:17 PM

    Yes.

    Fair enough, I cant imagine a true BNP member ever saying that - although I must admit I am surprised.  Can I ask why you think being a member of the BNP is something to be ashamed about?

    Yes. Do you think being a member of Islam is something to be ashamed about?

    Ashamed is a strong word, and would depend on which version you are following.  For me and my understanding of it, certainly yes. Same applies to all the worlds religions, with possible exception of buddhism

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #332 - October 25, 2010, 02:30 PM

    Quote from: Ishina
    Nah, you made a stab at one of them and ignored the other two.

    Let me try again, and break it down for you a bit. I’m not sure how I can frame my questions any better without you dodging around them, so what I’ll do is bold the operative words, and specify why I am asking them.

    What specifically defines a Native British in your eyes?


    Again, I have already provided you with the definition of "native" I am using HERE

    Just  replace the terms "a region"/"a particular place" with "Britain"/"Holland"/Europe or whatever and you either fulfil that definition or you don't. Do you or don't you? Again. I am not going to give you the answer that you want from me of "skin color" - no matter how many MORE times you ask the question falsely claiming that I have not answered it.


    Quote
    What specifically have you done that I must respect?



    Quote
    You say that I should be thankful, that I owe you something, that I should respect this fact when addressing you. But what have you contributed to my life? How have you helped me? How have you helped my country? What do you think I owe you for? What are you claiming credit for here?



    I SAID ex-Muslim people of immigrant origin have a debt of gratitude to the wider NATIVE non-Muslim society of which I am a part that gave them the space to leave Islam in relative safety -which they WOULD NOT HAVE HAD if they had still been living in Egypt or Pakistan. Former UK Conservative Party leader understood the concept perfectly when he stated:

    "My grandmother was one of those killed in the concentration camps. If it hadn't been for Winston Churchill and IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR BRITAIN I would have been one of them too. That's why, when I say I OWE EVERYTHING I AM TO THIS COUNTRY, I really do mean it. I OWE my life to it."

    Now what does howard mean by "BRITAIN"? The geographical landmass? Hardly. He means the INDIGENOUS BRITISH SOCIETY that provided him with refuge from the Nazis.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #333 - October 25, 2010, 02:41 PM

    Fair enough, I cant imagine a true BNP member ever saying that - although I must admit I am surprised.


    Why surprised when I have consistently refuted charges of any BNP affiliations?

    Quote
    Can I ask why you think being a member of the BNP is something to be ashamed about?


    Because it is a nasty, vicious racist organization with whose leadership and membership have a long history of out and out Nazi leanings and violence against people for no other reason than their race.

    Quote
    For me and my understanding of it, certainly yes. Same applies to all the worlds religions,


    Why is being a member of the Roman Catholic Church as shameful as being a member of Islam?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #334 - October 25, 2010, 02:59 PM

    And still...


    Your "questions" from what I can remember were garbled undecypherable gibberish. Perhaps you can rephrase them in English.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #335 - October 25, 2010, 03:16 PM

    And you would know about 'garbled undecypherable gibberish' wouldn't you...

    1) I asked you why you were here. You pointed me to your first posts. In that thread you were shown to be talking bullshit. So why are you still here?

    2) You were talking something about 'distinct groups' in a population. The 'natives' and the non-natives. I want to know what constitutes a distinct group.
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #336 - October 25, 2010, 03:40 PM

    Then we will have to conclude that the Jewish population of  what is now Israel are equally "native" inhabitants of the place as anybody else and have as much right to be there as "The Palestinians". Don't you agree?  Agreed Rev Winton? Agreed Ishina?

    I do agree but I don't agree with the way it was done. It was tantamount to illegal conquest by todays standards. The Palestinians are being bulldozed into the rubbish bin of history because the world once felt guilty about the holocaust. Dispossessing the Palestinians was not the answer and the Israeli state has run out of favours. Who will feel guilty about the Palestinians? Many will, when the USA turns its eyes away and shuts its purse.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #337 - October 25, 2010, 03:44 PM

    2) You were talking something about 'distinct groups' in a population. The 'natives' and the non-natives. I want to know what constitutes a distinct group.

    Sometimes I wonder that myself.

    I like to consider somebody a "native" to a given location if he grew up and in the culture that is considered "native" by most who live in that given location.
    So, for me, it's all based on cultural consensus.
    (And it's a quite fuzzy concept, dichotomic logic cannot be applied much meaningfully)

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #338 - October 25, 2010, 03:47 PM

    Again, I have already provided you with the definition of "native" I am using HERE

    Just  replace the terms "a region"/"a particular place" with "Britain"/"Holland"/Europe or whatever and you either fulfil that definition or you don't. Do you or don't you? Again. I am not going to give you the answer that you want from me of "skin color" - no matter how many MORE times you ask the question falsely claiming that I have not answered it.




    I SAID ex-Muslim people of immigrant origin have a debt of gratitude to the wider NATIVE non-Muslim society of which I am a part that gave them the space to leave Islam in relative safety -which they WOULD NOT HAVE HAD if they had still been living in Egypt or Pakistan. Former UK Conservative Party leader understood the concept perfectly when he stated:

    "My grandmother was one of those killed in the concentration camps. If it hadn't been for Winston Churchill and IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR BRITAIN I would have been one of them too. That's why, when I say I OWE EVERYTHING I AM TO THIS COUNTRY, I really do mean it. I OWE my life to it."

    Now what does howard mean by "BRITAIN"? The geographical landmass? Hardly. He means the INDIGENOUS BRITISH SOCIETY that provided him with refuge from the Nazis.



    Wow. Just wow. You weren't even born, you weren't even thought of, shit I doubt your parents were born around WW2. And yet you require our gratitude? You're a disgrace to all the WW2 vets. An embarrassment to your people and nation.
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #339 - October 25, 2010, 03:50 PM

    Why surprised when I have consistently refuted charges of any BNP affiliations?

    I didnt believe you

    Quote
    Why is being a member of the Roman Catholic Church as shameful as being a member of Islam?

    Because you might be a gay-hating- abortion-doctor-murdering catholic christian vs joint-sparking-music fueled-hippy sufi muslim

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #340 - October 25, 2010, 03:52 PM

    I didnt believe you
    Because you might be a gay-hating- abortion-doctor-murdering catholic christian vs joint-sparking-music fueled-hippy sufi muslim



    +fucking1
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #341 - October 28, 2010, 03:41 PM

    Quote from: "Prince Spinoza"
    1) I asked you why you were here. You pointed me to your first posts. In that thread you were shown to be talking bullshit. So why are you still here?


    So provide the particular post that SHOWED me to be "talking Bullshit".

    Quote
    2) You were talking something about 'distinct groups' in a population. The 'natives' and the non-natives. I want to know what constitutes a distinct group.


    Natives of a partifcular geographical area are distinct from non-natives by virtue of their nativeness as distinct from the non-nativeness of non-natives. Is that answer acceptable to you?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #342 - October 28, 2010, 03:48 PM

    So provide the particular post that SHOWED me to be "talking Bullshit".


    No.

    Quote
    Natives of a partifcular geographical area are distinct from non-natives by virtue of their nativeness as distinct from the non-nativeness of non-natives. Is that answer acceptable to you?


    No.
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #343 - October 28, 2010, 03:53 PM

    Quote from: sojournerlumus
    I do agree but I don't agree with the way it was done. It was tantamount to illegal conquest by todays standards.


    According to the mythology that is routinely peddled as history which I myself, to my lasting shame, once unquestioningly accepted.

    Quote
    The Palestinians are being bulldozed into the rubbish bin of history because the world once felt guilty about the holocaust. Dispossessing the Palestinians was not the answer and the Israeli state has run out of favours.


    "The Palestinians" violently opposed Jewish immigration into the middle east long before WWII. "The Palestinians" had a history of POGROMS AGAINST JEWS "The Palestinian" Grand Mufti of Jerusalem eagerly collaborated with the  Nazis. "The Palestinians" incited and joined with the wider "Arab world" to DESTROY the state of Israel at its inception. What do you think the condition of the Jews in the area would be like now if the Muslims' choice of war had worked in their favor?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #344 - October 28, 2010, 04:02 PM

    Quote from: DH
    So provide the particular post that SHOWED me to be "talking Bullshit".


    Quote from: Prince Spinoza
    No.


    That's because you can't. You see, answers in the vein of "My still-Muslim, hijab-wearing  sister  is a non-political Muslim with no desire for sharia because I say so and you should just accept what I say" does not really constitute a rebuttal.


    Quote from: DH"
    Natives of a partifcular geographical area are distinct from non-natives by virtue of their nativeness as distinct from the non-nativeness of non-natives. Is that answer acceptable to you?


    Quote
    No.


    Well what answer would satisfy you? I reckon it's something along the lines of "skin color". Am I right?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #345 - October 28, 2010, 04:20 PM

    That's because you can't.


    No, it's because you either are too dim to see it or too stubborn to accept it. You can read the thread for yourself. I'm not going to go through it with you.

    Quote
    Well what answer would satisfy you?


    A sensible one.

    Quote
    I reckon it's something along the lines of "skin color". Am I right?


    No.
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #346 - October 28, 2010, 04:37 PM

    Quote
    I SAID ex-Muslim people of immigrant origin have a debt of gratitude to the wider NATIVE non-Muslim society of which I am a part that gave them the space to leave Islam in relative safety -which they WOULD NOT HAVE HAD if they had still been living in Egypt or Pakistan. Former UK Conservative Party leader understood the concept perfectly when he stated:

    "My grandmother was one of those killed in the concentration camps. If it hadn't been for Winston Churchill and IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR BRITAIN I would have been one of them too. That's why, when I say I OWE EVERYTHING I AM TO THIS COUNTRY, I really do mean it. I OWE my life to it."

    Now what does howard mean by "BRITAIN"? The geographical landmass? Hardly. He means the INDIGENOUS BRITISH SOCIETY that provided him with refuge from the Nazis.

    Oh, White people? Lets stop skipping already.

    Erm, no, why should I forever feel in debted for the bravery of others? It's like Blair apologising for his ancestors enslaving Africans. I am grateful but I am not going to feel I need to do anything more than a 'native' of this country nor do I owe you, a native, any extra form of gratitude which borders on guilt.
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #347 - October 28, 2010, 05:15 PM

    Nativism renders a culture ossified because the "native" culture becomes fixed.  it will stunt the evolution of a society to a more equitable, free, and open society.  You can't have it both ways, you can't say that we have a culture that can't change but then complain about other cultures.  Their culture is native and there for shouldn't change either.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #348 - October 28, 2010, 07:03 PM

    Nativism renders a culture ossified because the "native" culture becomes fixed.  it will stunt the evolution of a society to a more equitable, free, and open society.  You can't have it both ways, you can't say that we have a culture that can't change but then complain about other cultures.  Their culture is native and there for shouldn't change either.


    Wow.

    +1
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #349 - October 29, 2010, 05:13 AM

    Quote from: deusvult
    Nativism renders a culture ossified because the "native" culture becomes fixed.


    Ah "NATIVIST" again. I see we have a new label to throw at me in place of reasoned arguments. However, I suppose it should be welcomed as a concession  that the "racist" slur is wholly insupportable.

    Quote
    it will stunt the evolution of a society to a more equitable, free, and open society.


    So you think the continued mass influx into the west of people who believe in a barbaric, discriminatory, misogynistic, anti-free-speech system of law and government will lead to that?

    Quote
    You can't have it both ways, you can't say that we have a culture that can't change but then complain about other cultures.


    Excuse me Monsieur StrawMan, I have neither said nor implied that. Where have I  "complained about other cultures"?

    Quote
    Their culture is native and there for shouldn't change either.


    Are you suggesting that if we want Muslims to "change" we should "change" by incorporating sharia into our culture?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #350 - October 29, 2010, 06:19 AM

    DH should all non-natives in America GTFO?
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #351 - October 29, 2010, 06:48 AM

    Blackdog, I think you'd best ask that question of native Americans

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #352 - October 29, 2010, 06:53 AM

    Blackdog, I think you'd best ask that question of native Americans


    We'll speak more of this later. I think you're trying to worm your way out by not giving me a straight answer. For now I have another request.

    DH your comments are requested in this thread please:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=12989.0
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #353 - October 29, 2010, 09:27 AM

    Ah "NATIVIST" again. I see we have a new label to throw at me in place of reasoned arguments. However, I suppose it should be welcomed as a concession  that the "racist" slur is wholly insupportable.

    So you think the continued mass influx into the west of people who believe in a barbaric, discriminatory, misogynistic, anti-free-speech system of law and government will lead to that?

    Is this really what you think all immigrants bring?
    Quote
    Excuse me Monsieur StrawMan, I have neither said nor implied that. Where have I  "complained about other cultures"?

    Check your previous sentence Wink

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #354 - October 29, 2010, 10:46 AM

    I was disappointed, yet not surprised, to read that Louis Farrakhan has been making alliances with Scientology.

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #355 - October 29, 2010, 10:52 AM

    lol wtf how can you not be surprised?
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #356 - October 29, 2010, 10:52 AM

    Again, I have already provided you with the definition of "native" I am using HERE

    Just  replace the terms "a region"/"a particular place" with "Britain"/"Holland"/Europe or whatever and you either fulfil that definition or you don't. Do you or don't you? Again. I am not going to give you the answer that you want from me of "skin color" - no matter how many MORE times you ask the question falsely claiming that I have not answered it.

    I SAID ex-Muslim people of immigrant origin have a debt of gratitude to the wider NATIVE non-Muslim society of which I am a part that gave them the space to leave Islam in relative safety -which they WOULD NOT HAVE HAD if they had still been living in Egypt or Pakistan. Former UK Conservative Party leader understood the concept perfectly when he stated:

    "My grandmother was one of those killed in the concentration camps. If it hadn't been for Winston Churchill and IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR BRITAIN I would have been one of them too. That's why, when I say I OWE EVERYTHING I AM TO THIS COUNTRY, I really do mean it. I OWE my life to it."

    Now what does howard mean by "BRITAIN"? The geographical landmass? Hardly. He means the INDIGENOUS BRITISH SOCIETY that provided him with refuge from the Nazis.



    So, wide-reaching definitions and sweeping generalisations aside, and assuming you’re not actually just an ignorant motherfucker with a huge chip on your shoulder about immigration and an unwarranted sense of entitlement and self-importance, I’m gonna go ahead and assume by Native American, you mean the largely untouched North American tribes that were around before the colonials nearly wiped them out - the diverse people, not actually a single race to anyone with actual interest in their intricate and rich history beyond a few John Wayne movies, literally thousands of different languages and many distinct cultures, the Maya, Inuit, ancient Hawaiians amongst them, and the hundreds of uncategorized aboriginal tribes… we can apply the same line of reasoning to this elusive ‘Native Briton’ creature, yeah?

    So lets start with you. Which of these Native British tribes do you most identify with?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/british_prehistory/iron_01.shtml

    I tell you what, scrap that. Its unreasonable of me to expect you to know that off the top of your head. Even though you have obviously traced your family tree that far back and clearly know all about history and population genetics, I don’t suppose you have the information handy right now anyway so I wont ask.

    So instead of that, lets be more reasonable and move on to a more relevant timeframe in the history of the British Isles. I’ll make it easy for you and even do the work for you, since you're so shy and modest about your expertise: -

    Would you say this is a fair description of a Native Briton:

    The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of Indigenous Caucasian, consisting of Anglo-Saxon, Celtic-Scottish, Scots-Northern Irish, Celtic-Welsh, Celtic- Irish, Celtic-Cornish, Anglo-Saxon-Celtic, Celtic-Norse, Anglo-Saxon-Norse, Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European, and members of these ethnic groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them.

    …?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #357 - October 29, 2010, 11:02 AM

    I think Farrakhan has moved away from Elijah Muhammad's principles of "do for self" and gone more "spooky". He claims that Elijah Muhammad is alive and that he visited him on the motherplane.

    Not to say that some of the teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad aren't strange to me: the pig, he said, was grafted from cat, rat and dog, Allah is in a Japanese-manufactured spaceship etc.

    However, it was the physical Nation of Islam that was paramount. Businesses, newspapers, farms, reformed people ardently striving for justice, and looking like a million bucks in their bowties while doing it.

    Of course I am a flea compared to Farrakhan, but he's all talk and no action. Especially these days he's increasingly irrelevant and if it means more people putting money in Scientology's coffers, the cynic in me says there's a payoff somewhere.

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #358 - October 29, 2010, 11:25 AM

    Thanks aw
  • Re: Secrets of Scientology: BBC Panorama series
     Reply #359 - October 29, 2010, 11:53 AM

    Haha, thank you BlackDog Smiley

    I was sitting here bored shitless, smoking a few cones while the wife is at work. Kids are asleep and I was reading a poxy book called "Jungle West 11".

    Now she's back and I gotta go  Cheesy

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
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