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 Topic: Is science a religion?

 (Read 11194 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Is science a religion?
     OP - October 03, 2010, 09:07 PM
    Hi everyone,

    I'm reading a book called The Looms of God, that states math and science are part of a spiritual journey of understanding and if you find a religion, the science is the basis for how things work. I don't have to book beside me, but later I'll quote some things. So, what do you think, is science a religion?

    I'm still working on my God essay and want to use this book to prove points, but I want other peoples' opinions as well (for the essay).  whistling2

    Thanks.  Thinking hard Vamoose
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
    Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.


    "The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi

  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #1 - October 03, 2010, 09:10 PM
    Religion : the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power , especially a personal God or gods

    It's only a religion in the following sense: a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion

    But that's a play on the meaning of the word so the answer is "No."  Science is something is no more a religion than football, except probably not as popular.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #2 - October 03, 2010, 09:13 PM
    Ah, okay. May I use your response in my essay as a counter argument to the book?

    I like your answer, it makes sense. Though, I was always interested in the Fibbonace Sequence. I think it's so beautiful and amazing how nature uses it.
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
    Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.


    "The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi

  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #3 - October 03, 2010, 10:33 PM
    I think science is led by imagination and need.
    Science works, its not a religion.
    Science motto is "dont take anyones word for it".

    Religion is led by superstition and need.
    Religion doesnt work "atleast we dont know until death conquers us"
    Religion motto is "Dont ask, have faith"
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #4 - October 03, 2010, 10:52 PM
    Tabun:  Afro

    Though this spiritual journey book I'm reading said don't take any word for it, so I guess science and spirituality could be the same. Right?
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
    Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.


    "The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi

  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #5 - October 03, 2010, 10:56 PM
    Quote from: pierced_beauty on October 03, 2010, 10:52 PM
    so I guess science and spirituality could be the same. Right?

    Uh... no   Huh?
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  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #6 - October 03, 2010, 10:58 PM
    Well, ur asking the wrong individual .
    but as for me i think spirituality is a fundamental requirment.
    Science isnt really fundamentally required, but thats my opinion
     Smiley
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #7 - October 03, 2010, 11:08 PM
    I'm going to get the book now and quote some things.

    Are Mathematics and Religion Separate?

    In our modern era, God and mathematics are usually placed in totally separate arenas of human thought. But as the book will show, this has not always been the case, and even today many mathematicians find the exploration of mathematics akin to a spiritual journey. The lines between religion and mathematics becomes indestinct. In the past, the intertwining of religion and math has produced useful results and spurred new areas of scientific thought...

    In many ways, the mathematical quest to understand infinity parallels mystical attempts to understand God. Both religion and mathematics attempt to express relationships between humans, the universe, and infinity. Both have arcane symbols and rituals, and impenetrable language. (The Looms of God 19-20)

    So, what is the difference between spiritual and religion? Couldn't one be spiritual and not have a religion?
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
    Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.


    "The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi

  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #8 - October 04, 2010, 12:01 AM
    Quote
    Couldn't one be spiritual and not have a religion?


    Yes
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #9 - October 04, 2010, 12:17 AM
    Ah, okay. I consider myself spiritual. I believe there is a God, but I don't want to follow religious dogma. Dogma is only good for mythology.
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
    Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.


    "The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi

  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #10 - October 04, 2010, 12:27 AM
    As long as u keep it to urself all is good i think .

     Smiley
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #11 - October 04, 2010, 01:30 AM
    I agree.  Smiley

    When I'm done, would you mind if I showed you the essay? Would you mind if I include you in the essay?
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
    Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.


    "The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi

  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #12 - October 04, 2010, 01:39 AM
    Science itself is only a method.  Scientists in regards to science on the other hand may act in ways that imitate religious people towards religion.  The same maybe said of a lot of ideologies.  I know a guy who I would almost call a anarcho capitalist fundamentalist in the sense that he waves his moral superiority around like a stick and decries any dissent.

    Another good book to read is called Travels by Michael Crichton.  It contains his autobiographical trip from med student to writer.  I mention it because his last essay is a speech he gave to the American Society of Sciences in which he outlines the parallels between religion and science.
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #13 - October 04, 2010, 10:13 AM
    Thank you deusvult, I will check it out.  Afro
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
    Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.


    "The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi

  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #14 - October 04, 2010, 11:20 AM
    Quote from: pierced_beauty on October 03, 2010, 10:52 PM
    I guess science and spirituality could be the same. Right?


    Science isn't spirituality by strict definition, but 'spiritual' isnt as fully defined by one word as science is. Science is the model of understanding of any given field of study and its conclusions. No more, no less. Spiritual is a much broader umbrella covering many things, from transcendent experiences of awe, love or victory, to coping with grief and loss, to personal codes of life, spiritual ‘paths’, and the beautiful alchemy of wisdom and morals that form our own personal conscience.

    Science in itself can inspire spiritual encounters in those who pursue it. The scientist, after all, is in pursuit of knowledge and understanding, often with a fervent aspiration and sense of adventure, and those personal ‘Eureka!’ moments are as uplifting and stirring as any other individual spiritual advancement.

    When asked by an atheist, if he were in fact deeply religious, Einstein replied:

    “Yes, you can call it that. Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in point of fact, religious.”

    He also said:

    “In every true searcher of Nature there is a kind of religious reverence, for he finds it impossible to imagine that he is the first to have thought out the exceedingly delicate threads that connect his perceptions.”
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #15 - October 04, 2010, 09:33 PM
    Well said, Ishina. May I use what you said in my essay?
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
    Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.


    "The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi

  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #16 - October 04, 2010, 09:34 PM
    scientists may be spiritual or religious, but science is NOT religion or spirituality.
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #17 - October 04, 2010, 09:38 PM
    Science is an investigative method, religion is a belief system

    Worse than comparing apples to pears - at least their still fruits

    Any more dumb arse comments like this, and I'm gonna go Caps Lock.  I mean it.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #18 - October 04, 2010, 09:49 PM
    Science is the proposition that Nature is God, Darwin its messenger (look at his stupid messianic beard) and scientists its ordained ministers.

    Match that you godless catamites. QED.

  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #19 - October 04, 2010, 09:58 PM
    ^^  Cheesy
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #20 - October 04, 2010, 10:19 PM
    ^ Did I mention that its holy book is The Origin of Species? True story.
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #21 - October 04, 2010, 10:45 PM
    I'm sorry Islame. This book just has got me thinking about science and math being connected to God. Is it possible mathematical numbers could express the proof of God?
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
    Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.


    "The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi

  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #22 - October 04, 2010, 11:13 PM
    no, only its mechanisms - what you decide to call it is up to you
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #23 - October 04, 2010, 11:42 PM
    Ah, okay. Islame, I posted something in the dating advice post.
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
    Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.


    "The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi

  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #24 - October 05, 2010, 01:03 AM
    Quote from: pierced_beauty on October 04, 2010, 10:45 PM
    I'm sorry Islame. This book just has got me thinking about science and math being connected to God. Is it possible mathematical numbers could express the proof of God?


    That depends on what you think is required to prove god. I read an interesting essay yesterday which posed the question, if nothing existed at all, would 1 + 1 still equal 2? If you answer yes to that question then you may well accept maths as a proof of the metaphysical source of everything.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #25 - October 05, 2010, 01:08 AM
    That's an interesting thought. It could almost be like Descartes malicious demon in a dream if 2 + 2 = 5 with them changing the numbers.

    Yeah, I'm a philosophy minor. =\
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
    Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.


    "The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi

  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #26 - October 05, 2010, 01:43 AM
    Well, I think the idea is that if mathematical truths exist outside of the natural world, then it could be that all kinds of truths exist out there - even religious ones.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #27 - October 05, 2010, 01:46 AM
    Religion isnt known for its truths.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #28 - October 05, 2010, 01:47 AM
    That depends on what you mean by truth - of course religion isn't provable in an objective manner, if there is any truth in it then it must be of an a priori nature.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Is science a religion?
     Reply #29 - October 05, 2010, 02:17 AM
    Quote from: pierced_beauty on October 04, 2010, 09:33 PM
    Well said, Ishina. May I use what you said in my essay?


    Um... yeah sure, but we are standing on the shoulders of true giants here. Sink your teeth into the essays of Einstein or someone of his calibre instead of my Happy Meal offerings. Honestly, I have little spiritual awakenings when I read words like this:

    "What separates me from most atheists is a feeling of utter humility toward the unattainable secrets of the harmony of the cosmos. The fanatical atheists are like the slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who - in their grudge against traditional religion as the “opium of the masses” - cannot hear the music of the spheres. I prefer the attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and our own being. Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

    ~ Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science" New York Times Magazine, 1930


    "It would not be difficult to come to an agreement as to what we understand by science. Science is the century-old endeavor to bring together by means of systematic thought the perceptible phenomena of this world into as thoroughgoing an association as possible. To put it boldly, it is the attempt at the posterior reconstruction of existence by the process of conceptualization. But when asking myself what religion is I cannot think of the answer so easily. And even after finding an answer which may satisfy me at this particular moment, I still remain convinced that I can never under any circumstances bring together, even to a slight extent, the thoughts of all those who have given this question serious consideration.

    At first, then, instead of asking what religion is I should prefer to ask what characterizes the aspirations of a person who gives me the impression of being religious: a person who is religiously enlightened appears to me to be one who has, to the best of his ability, liberated himself from the fetters of his selfish desires and is preoccupied with thoughts, feelings, and aspirations to which he clings because of their superpersonalvalue. It seems to me that what is important is the force of this superpersonal content and the depth of the conviction concerning its overpowering meaningfulness, regardless of whether any attempt is made to unite this content with a divine Being, for otherwise it would not be possible to count Buddha and Spinoza as religious personalities. Accordingly, a religious person is devout in the sense that he has no doubt of the significance and loftiness of those superpersonal objects and goals which neither require nor are capable of rational foundation. They exist with the same necessity and matter-of-factness as he himself. In this sense religion is the age-old endeavor of mankind to become clearly and completely conscious of these values and goals and constantly to strengthen and extend their effect. If one conceives of religion and science according to these definitions then a conflict between them appears impossible. For science can only ascertain what is, but not what should be, and outside of its domain value judgments of all kinds remain necessary. Religion, on the other hand, deals only with evaluations of human thought and action: it cannot justifiably speak of facts and relationships between facts. According to this interpretation the well-known conflicts between religion and science in the past must all be ascribed to a misapprehension of the situation which has been described."

    ~ Albert Einstein, “Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium” 1941

    A few more here

    001_wub
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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