4:34 debate here in South Africa
OP - October 11, 2010, 07:04 AM
The guy says we have to take all text in Quran and not just read that verse and this is his rebuttal to the verse:
In the Name of Allah, the Most Glorious, the Most Beneficent.
Firstly I will attend to one topic in your post that is bout hitting/beating the woman
I would like to begin firstly with this
A verse still from the same Chapter to put in perceptive the authority of our Prophet(P.B.U.M) and why we should follow both the words of the Holy Quran and the mannerism of the Prophet(P.B.U.M)
[4:59] O you who believe, you shall obey GOD, and you shall obey the messenger, and those in charge among you. If you dispute in any matter, you shall refer it to GOD and the messenger, if you do believe in GOD and the Last Day. This is better for you, and provides you with the best solution
1 verse amongs others like "quran (33:21)" I am sure there are many more but need more research time but the verse within the chapter u quoted seems even more appropriate "If you dispute in any matter, you shall refer it to GOD and the messenger,"
So now, how does one refer "dispute" to GOD well we can look at some verses that GOD has sent down. but firstly I would like to bring to your attention the following verses N.B. these verses are found in the very same chapter of the verse you question.
[4:44] Have you noted those who received a portion of the scripture, and how they choose to stray, and wish that you stray from the path?
[4:51] Have you noted those who received a portion of the scripture, and how they believe in idolatry and false doctrine, then say, "The disbelievers are better guided than the believers?!"
After reading those verses do you agree arguing a select verse is futile and full understanding and consideration of other verses or mannerisms of the our prophet (P.B.U.M) has to be taken in consideration ?
Now lets look at some verses to refer the "dispute" to GOD to keep it in context I chose verses from the very same Chapter. I am sure there many more I could refer to but for simplicity and context lets keep it to the same chapter.
[4:19] O you who believe, it is not lawful for you to inherit what the women leave behind, against their will. You shall not force them to give up anything you had given them, unless they commit a proven adultery. You shall treat them nicely. If you dislike them, you may dislike something wherein GOD has placed a lot of good
[4:94] O you who believe, if you strike in the cause of GOD, you shall be absolutely sure. Do not say to one who offers you peace, "You are not a believer," seeking the spoils of this world. For GOD possesses infinite spoils. Remember that you used to be like them, and GOD blessed you. Therefore, you shall be absolutely sure (before you strike). GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.
[4:128] If a woman senses oppression or desertion from her husband, the couple shall try to reconcile their differences, for conciliation is best for them. Selfishness is a human trait, and if you do good and lead a righteous life, GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.
Now for the mannerisms that is not in the Holy Quran but aptly apply to the verse in question. I have given the reason for why it not only acceptable to follow the Prophet but also a must Quran[4:59].
The hadith in Muslim states that the Prophet (pbuh) in his Farewell Pilgrimage said: "Lo! My last recommendation to you is that you should TREAT WOMEN WELL. Truly they are your helpmates, and you have no right over them beyond that - EXCEPT IF THEY COMMIT A MANIFEST INDECENCY. If they do, then refuse to share their beds and hit them WITHOUT INDECENT VIOLENCE . Then, if they obey you, do not show them hostility any longer. Lo! you have a right over your women and they have a right over you. Your right over your women is that they not allow whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house. While their right over you is that you treat them excellently in their garb and provision."
The prophet (P.B.U.M) gives a clear understanding when the verse "Qur'an- 4:34 "should apply
this verse (4:34)should only apply "EXCEPT IF THEY COMMIT A MANIFEST INDECENCY." before jumping to conclusions, Read the other set of capitals over again and try to understand what is implied, use your imagination of what "WITHOUT INDECENT VIOLENCE" could entail.
I will let you have "carte blanche" to understand what is meant by "EXCEPT IF THEY COMMIT A MANIFEST INDECENCY." Yes you have full "cart blanche" except that you apply the same extreme (how ever that maybe)to the part "WITHOUT INDECENT VIOLENCE" also to the part "TREAT WOMEN WELL."
continuing on the mannerisms of the prophet for better understanding.
It is not generally permitted to hit one's wife, and the overwhelming instances of hitting that take place in marriages are not only haram but also entail abuse, wrongdoing (dhulm), and a turning away from the example of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), who often instructed his companions not to hit their wives, and who said, when he heard about men who hit their wives, "The best of you are the best to your spouses, and I am the best of you to their spouse." The wives of the Prophet, including A'isha (Allah be pleased with her), relate that he never hit any of his wives.
Aaishah (Radhiallahu 'Anha) said: "Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman." [Recorded by Ibn Maajah. Al-Albaanee graded it Saheeh ().]
Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"
Another authentic version in Sahih Ibn Hibban (9:491) adds that the Prophet then revoked the dispensation. His statement that “the best of you are the best in their behavior towards their wives, and I am the best of you in my behavior towards my wives”
All of this shows that
(1) wife-beaters are the worst men and
(2) no Muslim wife-beater can possibly claim to imitate the Prophet , although Allah Most High said to imitate him : {
Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the last Day, and remembereth Allah much} (33:21).
So without resorting to changing of words and using only verses from the very chapter you quoted do you still think Islam is about woman beating? (except the verse (33:21))
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Comments on the part your post
"The occasion in which Q 4:34 was revealed sheds more light on the meaning of that verse. Most commentators mention that the above
verse was revealed in connection with a woman who complained to Mohammad that her husband slapped her on the face (which was still
marked by the slap). At first the Prophet said to her: 'Get even with him', but then added : 'Wait until I think about it.' Later on the above
verse was revealed, after which the Prophet said: 'We wanted one thing but Allah wanted another, and what Allah wanted is best.' [Razi,
At-tafsir al-Kabir, on Q. 4:34.]"
The commentators also mention that this report is narrated only from al-Hasan al-Basri who is NOT a Companion. The most that can be said of it here is that it is a weak, isolated, mursal Tabi`i report that does not have probative force.
What is more, al-Hasan himself flatly contradicts the above as he reportedly explained {wadribu hunna} to mean: "hitting that is not obscene; hitting that does not leave a trace (darban ghayra mubarrih ghayra mu'aththir). Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (Dar al-Fikr reprint 5:68).
So I ask you what is to believed from this commentator ?
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All Praise is due to Allah, Lord of all the Worlds. Peace and blessings of Allah be upon His Messenger, Muhammad, and peace and blessings of Allah be upon all of the Prophets that came before him, including Prophet Adam, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, among many others. We love and respect them all, and whosoever rejects one of them, rejects them all.
Topic: 4:34 debate here in South Africa