Okay BD, this took me 2.5 hours. Please oh please can you read it s-l-o-w-l-y, honestly t-h-i-n-k about what I've written and I really h-o-p-e that your answers have all been fully explained. Sorry t-h-i-s is rather a-n-n-o-y-i-n-g isn't it?
HO I think I want to know more about your thoughts. I don't understand how you can leave Islam and have some of the ideas you have.
It’s been a long journey in seeking knowledge processing it and forming opinions I do. Just like I appear a freak to my parents in my long journey to atheism, it seems my long journey to coming across far right also classes me as a freak to some. But just as you know the feeling of being right and true to being an Ex-Muslim, so is the same with my views.
Were you the same as a muslim?
I was completely different as a Muslim. I was offended when Islam was attacked. I suffered a lot from false grievances to Iraq and Palestine and hated Bush and Blair and Jews even. I’m only human, after all, and most humans are susceptible to the hatred and fear of Islam.
Would you have applauded this decision in France?
I would not have applauded this decision in France. Stuck in my false grievance and “Us Vs Them” mentality, I would have hated the French politicians just as I did with Bush, Blair and Jews. However through cognitive dissonance I would have still be practically fine in my daily life towards French people.
Or would it have upset you?
It would have raged anger in me yes. The Islamic meme is very good at uniting people through fear and hate. Definitely.
Would you have been against it because Islam demands it?
I would not have been against it because Islam demands it. To be honest, I’m not sure how much I would have been against it, because with Iraq and Palestine people were being killed here. This isn’t as drastic. Plus – if I was 15 again and this issue came up, perhaps it would have got me thinking and becoming an atheist would have been as inevitable in my life time and having the open mind I do.
But how many incidents have we've had were people rob stores in a burka? And how likely is that too happen?
It’s not very likely but that’s not the major reason in supporting the ban. The two major reasons are the oppressive culture it is and the very negative effect it has on social cohesion.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=11305.msg310177#msg310177If you’ve not seen the impact of the burka and of the way women are valued in Islam BD, I don’t think you’ve truly lived as a Muslim, however please correct me because I don’t know how religious your family is, but I can tell you mine can get so religious that a cousin passed away for not seeing a male doctor because she was shy. I know females in my family who weren’t allowed to go to uni because they were girls, work in places where there are males because they are girls, a qualified doctor told to stop working by her religious second generation husband because he felt he had the Islamic right to do that (and be violent towards her). I know girls who will literally get kicked out the house for not wearing a scarf. There are honour killings over the scarf/burqa issue on women. To my two sisters alone I can’t tell you come much confidence it gave them when they won the domestic argument over my mum on the issue of having to cover their hair, the countless number of fights in the kitchen and I can assure you these fights extend into the living room, car and all over the UK with its 2.4 MILLIOIN Muslims. To top it off, have you listened to what Marayam has said in the radio interview? I think the burka really does have symbolic impact such that it does affect the lives of Muslim women and there is good reason to ban it just for the two reasons I’ve outlined. This is a serious issue; I really hope this is a transparent answer BlackDog because I cannot get any clearer than this. There is clear evidence it affects society just as much as drinking and driving affects society. There is evidence, there is impact, and this laws attacks one of the jugular veins of the issue, for the benefit of these women and our society at large.
It's some colonial, elitist bullshit, these savages, we are helping them. I wanna know how many women have really changed the burka now? Where are these women now? Is anybody conducting a poll? Are they all at home, refusing to go out? Are they getting fined? Are they going out to get fined?
Law isn’t active yet:
The proposed measure had already been passed by parliament. It is due to come into force next spring.When you were a muslim what were your thoughts on these matters:
As an example, if your mother or sister wore the burka during the ban how would you have felt? What would you have told them?
This is a very interesting question. When I was a Muslim, if this ban existed, I would have questioned it, and I’m pretty sure it would have jump started my questioning and inevitability to being an atheist. Perhaps that is easy to say in hindsight. My sisters as mentioned fought to not wear a scarf, and I was supported of that from a Western front, but as I say I was delusioned by cognitive dissonance and I was not thinking straight. Perhaps it would have been good of the law to make such a ban and get me as a confused and illiterate teenager in the values of women to question and learn them and why the ban came in place.
I would also like an explanation to your thoughts on these matters and the subsequent ban:
- Minarets
- Foreign funded Madrassas (I don't understand this, you mean any school that is funded outside the country? Why does that make a difference)
- Isocs at London Universitys
- Zakir Naik (I suppose you mean banning him from entry?)
Minarets: This needs banning because of the symbolism it entails. Islam itself should not be promoted as it currently stands as a mainstream religion. I wish I could say Islam can be progressive and I wish I could say there are people like
Zeba Khan in the hundreds and thousands but there just are not. Zeba has been inside a synagogue – come on BD, we know how much Jews are hated by the Islamic and Arabic cultural memeplex. As a religion of fear and hatred, right now it does not have the right to make such symbolic remarks on a country it has not been responsible for being the developed nation it is. Muslims may worship in a mosque/room/building/whatever, but to put up grand symbolic statements such as this is disgusting. Until Islam gets reformed into a religion of love and unity and the Imams talk less about what it is like in hell if you commit adultery and more about how to love your neighbours like a Christian pastor would, until then I’m not at all convinced Islam should be allowed to make such grand symbolic statements.
Foreign funded Madrassas: These are UK Madrasses funded by foreign money (e.g. Saudi Arabia). Actually I’d even ban SOME of the ones funded by British Muslims in this country too. My cousin is 18 I think and is at a Madrassa boarding school near Birmingham. For the next 4 years he will be learning the Quran and Islam. He will miss out the best years of his life and become very disintegrated with UK society the way he is going. Please read this thread:
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=9773.msg250846#msg250846Isocs at London Universities: Islamic societies at London universities are not only potential breeding grounds for terrorists (and this is no joke or exaggeration) but the way it attracts young isolated second generation angry men is disturbing. The wannabe UCL bomber was president at the UCL ISOC. How about what’s happening over at City University in London?
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/39929/islamic-extremism-intimidation-londons-city-university http://www.lbc.co.uk/claims-of-islamic-extremism-at-london-university-31352There is good reason in my opinion to just ban ISOCs for a year or two at these Univeristies to give the impression, “You’vre had your right, and you abused it, so now you are banned until next year. Prove yourself and your dormant society can become active again”. This I honestly think would work. But the universities are spineless to act.
Zakir Naik: Originally I thought, let him come and preach and we’ll listen to his rubbish. But I think we’ve all heard enough. The guy is a menace to the word of Islam he spreads to mainstream Muslims. He is seen as the living breathing evidence Islam is true and right by moderate Muslims – and yet some of the things he says about terrorism is disgusting. He should be banned from the country and his TV broadcasting should also be banned. Trust me, when he says “all Muslims should be a terrorist” (
please watch here) just trust me, I really do think this has an impact on the robot thinking, mind hijacked mainstream Muslims including the members of my family.
How would you square this as a Muslim?
Which part? Why does this even matter how I did think as a Muslim? I was confused with the fear and hatred of Islam, suffering from false grievances and a spate of cognitive dissonance – why does it honestly matter how I thought as a Muslim? Because to me it doesn’t. What matters is I questioned it. What matters is we get more Muslims to question. Whether they reform Islam or apostatise completely, this will be progress and if bans are one way of getting that message across, then it should be implemented. Swiss, French and Belgians are not racists. For anyone who thinks they are just racists (as an easy and silly answer), don’t kid yourself I say because the politicians and people over there are being under-estimated if that is how you are thinking (not directed at you BD, just writing that as a passing thought).
How would it make you feel if the state banned these while you were a muslim?
As mentioned above, it would have made me feel enraged. But sooner or later it would have driven me to ask questions and inevitably become an ExMuslim.
I would like the specifics of each issue please. I'm very interested in the banning of Isocs.
Hope that was enough.
I have another set of questions as well
I am also interested if this ban extends only to these matters or to other issues such as a holiday for muslims, islamic faith schools.
Should Islamic holidays be banned? No I don’t think so. The Islamic holidays if anything are the best parts of the religion as it stands with all it’s negative features. It is the one time family can get together, meet, communicate, socialize and be human (i.e. laugh, eat, joke) not Islamic robot (fast even when it hurts, not eat sweets because of gelatine, say a surah for nearly every action of the day, pray so many times a day, not do Western things because it is not Islamic, etc).
I would also like to know if this extends to all Islamic sects or only specific ones?
Why do people bunch religions into one? It is my opinion that not all religions are the same and they should not be treated as such. Please do not kids yourself they are all the same. If there is any other religion as bad as Islam, I’m happy to apply such bans to them also. Christianity and Judaism isn’t as bad of a relgion, so it doesn’t apply to them in my opinion. Islam is in my opinion a TERRIBLE religion compared to mainstream Christianity or Judaism for a variety of reasons. The political, economic and moral values (especially on women) for a start are enough to differentiate them.
I would also like to know if this extends to other religions? Examples would be Church bells, church towers, Pat Robertson, Foreign Funded Faith schools (other than Muslim ones) etc.
As mentioned if there is any other religion as bad as Islam, I’m happy to apply such bans to them also. I’ve travelled widely, I’ve been at prayer ceremonies for most mainstream religions, and it really is my life experience that Islam is backwards as it currently stands and needs these bans. If anyone can prove to me these bans would not be effective or have grave consequences, please feel free to share your thoughts.
Some reading for you, if you wish to learn BD:
The 2009 Charles Douglas-Home Memorial Trust Award essay
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/court_and_social/article6971399.ece BTW, I COMPLETELY FORGOT. ONE THING I REALLY, REALLY WANT TO SEE BANNED IN THE UK: SHARIA LAW. (Sorry about that - just a bit well, emotionally charged there!)
Poll
Topic: Another question for ex-Muslims