Remembrance Day

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #30 - November 11, 2010, 08:37 PM

Quote from: Q-Man on November 11, 2010, 08:05 PM
You kinda got a point, but I still think it's important to find a way to honor and mourn military vets. I getcha, though, it's a nice gesture for vets and their families, but rather empty as long as we continue to send young men to die in imperialist wars.

I think the best way to honor combat vets would be to set them the fuck up when they get back so they don't have to worry about jack shit for the rest of their lives (you volunteer to kill and die for a country, that country fuckin owes your ass as far as I'm concerned, even if the war was unjust), and avoid creating more combat vets through wars of conquest and hegemony.

That's what the ultra violent Romans used to do in their blood-letting heydays. Vets were given farms in the lands they helped to conquer and subdue, and in return they became an experienced occupying force on call. Didn't wash with Boudicca, though.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #31 - November 11, 2010, 08:39 PM

I was thinking more along the lines of an extremely generous pension.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #32 - November 11, 2010, 08:40 PM

Quote from: IsLame on November 11, 2010, 08:33 PM
How can killing each other have a survival value. The survival value comes from another indirectly linked trait - our communal/tribal instinct.

If you read Thomas Malthus, you'll begin to understand how human populations actually mushroom in the aftermath of a good war and expand to double their pre-war sizes. Strange but true.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #33 - November 11, 2010, 08:44 PM

@ Q man.
How generous do you want to be? Then, as now, the price of land appreciated faster than mere money. Anyway, it was the duty of every Roman citizen to bear arms until he was too infirm to do so. And he paid taxes. You can't do that on a pension.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #34 - November 11, 2010, 11:33 PM

Regrettably the day was marred by this episode :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cetGUdada8g&feature=player_embedded

As a Danish blogger wrote :

Quote
Will the Brits tolerate this ? No doubt, there will be lots of angry comments to this story, but will there be actual consequences, not to mention the emergence of parties or movements that will break the apathy ? On the other hand one should "appreciate" this non-violent and brightly shining illustration of a reality which already was a fact. Multiculture cannot be forced by draconian legislation, nor can it be realized by means of re-education or naive propaganda. And this insult to the host country cannot be relativised away with however many sunshine stories of happy culture meetings. The Brits have a problem period.

As far as I know, the MAC is only a small group (Choudry´s gang ?) and there was only about 50 in the demonstration, but unless there is a barrage of condemnation from the British Muslims I am inclined to agree with the blogger that the Brits have a problem.

With reference to the Elisabeth Sabaditsch Wolff thread and to Gert Wilders and other who have been charged with hate speech, those demonstrators were very hateful, but will they be charged ?

I doubt it.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #35 - November 11, 2010, 11:37 PM

Just when I thought things couldnt get any worse

Wake up you iiiidiiiotttsss

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #36 - November 11, 2010, 11:48 PM

Quote from: Paloma on November 11, 2010, 11:33 PM
but unless there is a barrage of condemnation from the British Muslims

Even if there is, the press and the Eurabia crowd won't give it much notice, nor do I think you'll be looking to hard for it.

Quote
those demonstrators were very hateful, but will they be charged ?

I doubt it.

Said this before here and I'll say it again-- if I were British law enforcement/intelligence, I would not want them charged over petty shit like this, but rather very closely monitored for contacts with people who might be plotting much more sinister things. Fuck, if I were to discover a quarter of Choudary's group were active informants for SIS I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #37 - November 11, 2010, 11:48 PM

Idiots.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #38 - November 11, 2010, 11:55 PM

Quote from: Q-Man on November 11, 2010, 11:48 PM
Said this before here and I'll say it again-- if I were British law enforcement/intelligence, I would not want them charged over petty shit like this, but rather very closely monitored for contacts with people who might be plotting much more sinister things. Fuck, if I were to discover a quarter of Choudary's group were active informants for SIS I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

Thats the bit you dont understand. These people are not unusual - its the usual rhetoric from the young, ill-educated, mosque-going brigade, the ones with the loudest voices outside your everyday ordinary mosque. Most of them are not violent, but they pat each other on the back for how faithful and how much vitirole they can spill against the kuffar.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #39 - November 12, 2010, 12:01 AM

And you don't seem to understand intelligence if you don't see why your security services would let a lot of shit slide with this group in the interest of monitoring and infiltration.

A lot of White folks in the US have ideas similar to the Aryan Nations, but the FBI doesn't commit its resources towards every place where violent racists can be found, just where they are organized. During the height of the Civil Rights struggle in the US, it would probably have been safe to say that a majority of Southern Whites agreed with the KKK, but you can't recruit federal informants everywhere. The Feds let a lot of shit their informants did slide, including bombing fucking churches, just to fully infiltrate the Klan, and it reaped rewards in the long run-- the Klan is a shadow of its former self largely due to Federal infiltration.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #40 - November 12, 2010, 12:08 AM

I am sure they are monitoring the situtation well, the reason we havent had a major strike in a while. The point I am making is that this kind of behaviour is run of the mill stuff that is going on in the UK at the moment - its frustrating knowing that they are probably decent people who have been led astray by Islam

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #41 - November 12, 2010, 12:18 AM

Quote from: IsLame on November 11, 2010, 11:55 PM
Thats the bit you dont understand. These people are not unusual - its the usual rhetoric from the young, ill-educated, mosque-going brigade, the ones with the loudest voices outside your everyday ordinary mosque.

They do look dense. Though I have to say that many Asians (and some Arabs) in our medical faculty (and from a bunch of other faculties at uni) fall into this young, ~~ill-~~educated, mosque-going (fundamentalist) brigade.

I remember Sam Harris writing about how the 19 hijackers of the 9/11 attacks were well-educated and from middle-class.

It's baffling. Until we realise the unique power of delusion that religion brings.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #42 - November 12, 2010, 09:14 AM

Quote from: mighty_cats on November 11, 2010, 07:45 PM
Now to put a damper on the tribute...

To hell with remembrance day.
Whats the point of having a remembrance day when you don't fucking learn from your past mistakes and continue to make them.
Thats not remembering, thats a god damn sharade.

If you want to have a remembrance day, have it when you've learnt what caused you to have to remember in the first fucking place.
Remembrance day should be changed to 'let's pretend we've surpassed the past-denial day' or perhaps 'let's pre decide to remember the future people of ww3 and ww4 day, because we're only pretending to remember to make ourselves feel better about our own lives day'

(Not very catchy, but you get the point)

Thats cute, and I appreciate you had to get it off your chest, and that it comes from a good place even though its misdirected, but I don't see what it has to do with Remembrance Day.

For a start, the people we honour on Remembrance Day are either no longer alive, or will not live to see that magic utopia should it ever come around. This occasion is soley to respect the sacrifices made by actual people, and honour those actual people, and show them that we are thankful for the job they do. Its got nothing to do with global politics or the human condition.

Quote from: mighty_cats on November 11, 2010, 07:45 PM
Remembrance day is a fucking insult to people who lost their lives, because we're still continuing to add even more of these people on the heap for even lesser reasons than ever.

No it isnt. Its to show a measure of respect and appreciation for the sacrifices made and that we do not just take them for granted. Why is that hard to understand?

You're barking up the wrong tree. The veterans don't warrent your vitriol. Remembrance Day is their day. Don't hijack it or piggyback it with other concerns. Take them up with the politicians and decision makers.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #43 - November 12, 2010, 03:46 PM

Quote from: arX on November 12, 2010, 12:18 AM
They do look dense. Though I have to say that many Asians (and some Arabs) in our medical faculty (and from a bunch of other faculties at uni) fall into this young, ~~ill-~~educated, mosque-going (fundamentalist) brigade.

I remember Sam Harris writing about how the 19 hijackers of the 9/11 attacks were well-educated and from middle-class.

It's baffling. Until we realise the unique power of delusion that religion brings.

Ye, education only works to an extent, the main factor here is they have been brainwashed by Islamic theology and propaganda from an early age. For these people questioning Islam is not an option, they have been brought up to believe this nonsense is true from the age of seven at least. At this point one wonders how will it be possible to get these people to adopt at least a more peaceful and liberal form of Islam and the sad truth is it's up to these nutcases to see reality for themselves, we can't force them to question their beliefs, nor can we prevent their children from being brainwashed by the same, repititive cycle which carries this dangerous meme.

I do however, believe that western culture will help speed up this process and more Muslims will be inclined to be more liberal about their beliefs, of course there will also be more who leave Islam also. People in general now are seeing religion for what it really is, Islam included so I think it's inevitable we will see more Muslims leave or become more liberal.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #44 - November 12, 2010, 05:18 PM

Just found out that remembrance day is in US as well, but we are doing it on Monday. So long weekend..

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #45 - November 12, 2010, 05:28 PM

Quote from: Q-Man on November 11, 2010, 11:48 PM
Even if there is, the press and the Eurabia crowd won't give it much notice, nor do I think you'll be looking to hard for it.

Thank you for that snide remark. As a matter of fact, I find it very encouraging when in a comments thread to a newspaper article I find posts from Muslims speaking up against the conduct of some of their co-religionists. Unfortunately such posts are few and far between in the debatepages I follow in several newspapers.

Quote
Said this before here and I'll say it again-- if I were British law enforcement/intelligence, I would not want them charged over petty shit like this, but rather very closely monitored for contacts with people who might be plotting much more sinister things. Fuck, if I were to discover a quarter of Choudary's group were active informants for SIS I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

By the same reasoning, isn´t the charges against Elisabeth Sabaditsch Wolff, Gert Wilders and others who have faced hate speech charges petty shit ?

Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #46 - November 12, 2010, 05:56 PM

Quote from: muddy on November 12, 2010, 05:18 PM
Just found out that remembrance day is in US as well, but we are doing it on Monday. So long weekend..

Not true. Veterans Day is officially observed as a Federal holiday on November 11 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/5/6103.html Your job is just giving you the Monday off instead.

Quote from: Paloma on November 12, 2010, 05:28 PM
Thank you for that snide remark.

You're welcome.

Quote
Unfortunately such posts are few and far between in the debatepages I follow in several newspapers.

Yeah, cause it's always the moderates of any religion/ideology that post in those places Gimme a break, those newspaper comments sections are always full of nutjobs and idiots of every stripe. Moderate folks are the least likely to spend time writing shit there.

Quote
By the same reasoning, isn´t the charges against Elisabeth Sabaditsch Wolff, Gert Wilders and others who have faced hate speech charges petty shit ?

Gawd! YES! What the fuck? Have you not read the shit I've written here over the past year and a half or what? I consistently oppose government censorship of speech including "hate speech" no matter who it's coming from. Jesus, am I writing in fuckin ancient Greek or something?

EDIT: Although technically it's not "by the same reasoning", because I don't think the government needs to be spying on Wilders, etc., rather I oppose censoring them on principle.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #47 - November 17, 2010, 11:09 PM

Fox News coverage of the events - Maryam Namazie @ 5.06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcUby-lZiKM

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #48 - November 17, 2010, 11:50 PM

Were the unite against fascism guys in the video really chanting Allahu Akbar?
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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #49 - November 17, 2010, 11:57 PM

Quote from: IsLame on November 17, 2010, 11:09 PM
Fox News coverage of the events - Maryam Namazie @ 5.06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcUby-lZiKM

That's Russia Today not Fox News

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #50 - November 17, 2010, 11:59 PM

Here is what happened to a schoolboy who honoured Remembrance Day on Facebook :

Quote
As the nation paused on Remembrance Day to honour those who had sacrificed their lives for their country, one schoolboy felt particularly proud.

Moved by their bravery, Darius Gill penned a patriotic and heartfelt tribute to the soldiers who had lost their lives at war.

But unknown to the 13-year-old schoolboy, some of his peers took exception to his comments.

Quote
A gang of 12-year-old pupils made up of five Muslim boys and one white girl, began plotting a vicious attack on Darius – whose father is Asian – for supporting British troops.

The pupils, none of whom can be named for legal reasons, have now been suspended from a school in Coventry and may be expelled after posting their chilling threats online.

One message - littered with spelling mistakes - said: ‘Fight on Monday gonna be heavy knuckle dusters nd knifes hopefully I don't die.’

Another pupil added: ‘ill bang him ma slef am a terrorist.’

One member of the gang also posted a picture of himself holding a rifle and threatened to hijack a plane.

Other pupils - who have set up a Muslim Defence League which celebrates British deaths in Afghanistan - also added comments condemning Darius.

But fortunately, the schoolboy’s mother Clare Allington read the comments on Monday morning - the day of the promised attack - and immediately pulled her son out of school.

Yesterday, Mrs Allington, 42, a trainee teacher from Coventry, said: ‘I logged on and it broke my heart. I was reading all sorts about knuckle dusters, knives and death.

‘They were planning to attack him at school that day so I rang the school straight away.’

She added that she usually keeps an eye on her son’s posts on facebook.

‘I have his password and usually check it every day but didn't last weekend until I was at the Warwick University campus on Monday.

‘If I hadn't read the threats and pulled my son out of school he could be dead.

‘They might just be school children but they are fanatical and dangerous. The threats have to be taken seriously.’

Even yesterday, one of the yobs, who can’t be named because of their age, bragged about being quizzed by police and continued his threats to attack Darius.

He posted: ‘IM IN TROUBLE WIV DE POLICE CUZ OF SUSSPICIAN OF THREAT TO DARIUS OVER FB U HAVE A RITE TO REMAIN SILENCE!!! (JOKES) BUT IM IN TROUBLLE WIV DE POLICE IM BANGGIN DARIUS THURSDAY NO1 JUMP IN 1 v 1.’

The abuse and threats came after Darius posted two pictures showing British troops on Armistice Day on facebook.

On November 11, he wrote: ‘RIP TO ALL THE LADS WHO NEVER MADE IT HOME.’
He was then branded ‘racist’ and two of the accused pupils began a flurry of MSN messages to each other setting out what they were going to do to Darius.

One wrote to Darius on facebook saying ‘r u being racist?’ and criticised him for failing to acknowledge the dead soldiers in the Middle East.

Darius tried to explain that the poppies honoured British troops and also said he was remembering his great-great uncle who died on the first day of the Battle of the Somme in 1916 aged just 17.

The unnamed pupil’s facebook profile is full of chilling references to Islamic fundamentalism and shows a picture of him posing with an AK47 rifle.

He also penned a terrifying poem about hijacking a plane.

On November 12, he wrote: ‘You better watch what the **** flies outta ya mouth.

‘Or I'ma hijack a plane and fly it into your house Burn your apartment with your family tied to the couch.

‘And slit your throat, so when you scream, only blood comes out.’

Principal Wendy Thomas said facebook was an increasing concern for schools.

She said: ‘Darius is the victim of bullying. All the students involved have told me they did not mean what they said but they will learn a hard lesson from this.

‘Facebook is a big concern for schools and we urge all parents to monitor what their children say on the site.

‘As soon as the school was notified about the comments on Monday we interviewed the pupils.

‘No weapons were found on any of the pupils. We notified the police and they are investigating the incident.’

The students attend the 1,250-pupil Sidney Stringer Academy in Coventry which caters for children aged 11-18. Muslim pupils make up 65 per cent of the pupils.

Mrs Allington added: ‘My son wrote supporting the British troops in Afghanistan and also said he was sad so many soldiers had died.

‘The so-called Muslim Defence League, which has been set up in the school by a number of pupils, believe that Darius should join them in hating British soldiers.

‘It's appalling and extremely upsetting for Darius.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1330517/Boys-excluded-Facebook-death-threats-classmate.html

I think it is apalling that children that young can be so extreme. The authorities should have serious talks with their parents.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #51 - November 18, 2010, 12:02 AM

Wonder what channels the little 'terrorists' watch too.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #52 - November 18, 2010, 12:06 AM

Quote from: Paloma on November 17, 2010, 11:59 PM
Here is what happened to a schoolboy who honoured Remembrance Day on Facebook :

I find this story disturbing, not because of the violence - thats same ol'

What it shows is that the new generation of 13 year olds havent changed (arguably got worse), & they are going to cause more trouble in the future. I really wish there was something we could do to stop the inevitable.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #53 - November 18, 2010, 12:29 AM

Yeah that story is disturbing.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #54 - November 18, 2010, 12:34 AM

Very disturbing.
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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #55 - November 18, 2010, 01:43 AM

Quote
we urge all parents to monitor what their children say on the site.

Their parents are probably the ones that gave them the mindset to think that way, and are therefore proud of how they have turned out.

When these little turds grow up and cause more trouble, I wonder how long it'll be before forced repatriation is seriously discussed.

It seems that someone should have paid more attention to the warnings about Britain going to war causing radicalisation of Muslims.

I'm glad I didn't go for the typical arranged marriage route. Otherwise, I'd be trying to raise little turds in this awful climate.
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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #56 - November 18, 2010, 02:09 AM

Quote from: IGiveUp on November 18, 2010, 01:43 AM
It seems that someone should have paid more attention to the warnings about Britain going to war causing radicalisation of Muslims.

The war did not radicalise the Muslims , Islam did.

Correct Iraq did not help the situation, but if it was not Iraq , they would have found something else to grieve over, whether it be Afghanistan, Kosovo, Israel etc.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #57 - November 18, 2010, 10:21 PM

^I disagree. The war made a lot of muslims more politically aware than ever! There were no protests against Israel during the 1st intifada and even 2nd in Britain (as far as I'm aware of) however there were protests held during the 2006 war, Gaza massacre and the act of piracy. And if you look at pics/vids of these protests you'll see people openly showing their support to hezbollah and hamas with placards and flags. And its bcoz of becoming more politically aware that they showed an interest in political Islam.
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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #58 - November 18, 2010, 10:31 PM

Nah, you're probably too young to know but Muslims have been dsiproportionately harping on about Israel ever since I've been breastfeeding. In fact they were going on about the Afghanistan, Iran & Iraq conflict & Salman Rushdie's book before all this erupted.

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Re: Remembrance Day
Reply #59 - November 18, 2010, 10:37 PM

disproportionately? Try saying that when you've had your home destroyed and your human rights thrown out of the window!
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