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 Topic: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology

 (Read 9545 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     OP - November 04, 2010, 11:57 PM

    A God that is merciful but that punishes you eternally for disbelieving in him.

    A god that is omnipotent but omniscient and can't change what he already knows, a god that is outside our logic, a god that is outside space and time but that also functions in space and time (laws of physics).

    Men and women are equal but different.

    A being that is invisible and immaterial but is living and is described anthropomorphically in the Quran.

    The human language is an imperfect tool but the divine message was released in language form, an imperfect tool.

    The Quran was written as a stone tablet and yet has abrogated verses in it and verses about abrogation.

    A god that doesn't show miracles now or back then but did for another group of people, that were similar in culture and behavior and place, but demands us and them to believe in miracles we've never witnessed or will witness.

    Angels and Jinns are invisible and immaterial (as far as we can see or at least we don't have the technology to detect them) yet they are here, affecting the physical world we live in.

    Jinns are made of smokeless fire. Nuff said.  Hm Allah never heard of expression "where there is smoke there is fire". It's like Muslim version of there is no spoon, "there is fire but no smoke".

    Mohammad fucked Aisha that's historical context but he is still a moral guide for today and a leader of men and beasts until Judgment day. Which is a very long time.

    He is a moral guide that is here to replace the laws of the old moral guides and religions because they were corrupted but at the same time he can make mistakes and Quran is not corrupted but we have hadiths on missing verses and many various sects and interpretations of Islam.

    He is infallible but can also make mistakes but only for certain things, outside the scope of Islam. Yet Islam is a complete way of life. And Mohammad is the Prophet of Islam.

    Being asked to fast and one of the reasons is to feel the pain of poor people, why are there poor people in the beginning?

    Which leads me to:

    Some born rich, some born poor, we all have same free will, but not same opportunities, yet we all end up in very different places, literally difference between heaven and hell.


    Water being scarce for poor people but not scarce enough to wash your ass with, like a person dying of thirst won't drink ass-water or even camel urine, that's beneath them, they'll only drink evian and Icelandic glacier water. A thirsty person would quench his thirst with drops of acid rain if he had to;  "Hey at least my throat isn't parched anymore. It's just.. severely burned".

    Water is not available to poor people from sunrise to sundown, that's why we don't drink during day, at day there are no water sources, they're a mirage, and during night water sources magically re-appear, this is geology 101. OK maybe not contradiction but file under "WTF" in the Islamic Cabinet of Crazy Shit.  

    A god that is beyond praise but yet praised daily. And you are rewarded for praising him. And punished for not praising him.

    A god that is the most powerful and only real god but gets really angry at people that believe in fake gods. And punishes these ignorant fools, for all eternity.

    Quran not a book of science but used for miracles. There are Quranic scientific discoveries but when opposed; Quranic verses detailing scientific facts and scientific contradictions are allegorical and metaphorical.

    We are asked to look for physical signs such as the camel and olive for Intelligent Design but finds of Unintelligent design is dismissed. Or dismissed as this is an imperfect world. Yet Allah is the best of creators. Which he can be. And still not be.

    Do you guys have anymore?
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Thelogy
     Reply #1 - November 05, 2010, 12:11 AM

    Allah's all-knowing but he makes spelling mistakes.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #2 - November 05, 2010, 12:26 AM

    Your fate is sealed with predestination but you have free-will which will decide the outcome of your predestined fate.

    Because God is a mobster boss of a casino in the desert. You're just a bum playing one of his cosmic games. A game that is rigged. The House always cashes in. A game he knows the results of but you have to play because you don't know the results. Why does he let you suffer through this? Only to have your knees broken at the end of the night? We don't know. Why create a fucking casino in the desert? We don't know.

    The cosmic game; you never asked to participate but you're now forced to. It's like that Russian roulette scene in Deer Hunter and you're Robert De Niro. There's some insane Vietnamese angel shouting "DI DI MAU! DI DI MAU!" and you're playing for your eternal soul. This is God basically:



    He's just crazier-looking. And doesn't lose.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #3 - November 05, 2010, 12:26 AM

    Allah's all-knowing but he makes spelling mistakes.


    Source please Smiley
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #4 - November 05, 2010, 12:35 AM

    "Women and men are equal but different" - this isn't necessarily a paradox. It largely depends on your definition of equality because after all, you make a transaction of items of equal value whenever you are at a shop, but while your amount of money may be "equal" to the value of milk and eggs, they are completely different entities.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #5 - November 05, 2010, 12:37 AM

    A God that is merciful but that punishes you eternally for disbelieving in him.

    A god that is omnipotent but omniscient and can't change what he already knows, a god that is outside our logic, a god that is outside space and time but that also functions in space and time (laws of physics).

    Men and women are equal but different.

    A being that is invisible and immaterial but is living and is described anthropomorphically in the Quran.

    The human language is an imperfect tool but the divine message was released in language form, an imperfect tool.

    The Quran was written as a stone tablet and yet has abrogated verses in it and verses about abrogation.

    A god that doesn't show miracles now or back then but did for another group of people, that were similar in culture and behavior and place, but demands us and them to believe in miracles we've never witnessed or will witness.

    Angels and Jinns are invisible and immaterial (as far as we can see or at least we don't have the technology to detect them) yet they are here, affecting the physical world we live in.

    Jinns are made of smokeless fire. Nuff said.  Hm Allah never heard of expression "where there is smoke there is fire". It's like Muslim version of there is no spoon, "there is fire but no smoke".

    Mohammad fucked Aisha that's historical context but he is still a moral guide for today and a leader of men and beasts until Judgment day. Which is a very long time.

    He is a moral guide that is here to replace the laws of the old moral guides and religions because they were corrupted but at the same time he can make mistakes and Quran is not corrupted but we have hadiths on missing verses and many various sects and interpretations of Islam.

    He is infallible but can also make mistakes but only for certain things, outside the scope of Islam. Yet Islam is a complete way of life. And Mohammad is the Prophet of Islam.

    Being asked to fast and one of the reasons is to feel the pain of poor people, why are there poor people in the beginning?

    Which leads me to:

    Some born rich, some born poor, we all have same free will, but not same opportunities, yet we all end up in very different places, literally difference between heaven and hell.


    Water being scarce for poor people but not scarce enough to wash your ass with, like a person dying of thirst won't drink ass-water or even camel urine, that's beneath them, they'll only drink evian and Icelandic glacier water. A thirsty person would quench his thirst with drops of acid rain if he had to;  "Hey at least my throat isn't parched anymore. It's just.. severely burned".

    Water is not available to poor people from sunrise to sundown, that's why we don't drink during day, at day there are no water sources, they're a mirage, and during night water sources magically re-appear, this is geology 101. OK maybe not contradiction but file under "WTF" in the Islamic Cabinet of Crazy Shit.  

    A god that is beyond praise but yet praised daily. And you are rewarded for praising him. And punished for not praising him.

    A god that is the most powerful and only real god but gets really angry at people that believe in fake gods. And punishes these ignorant fools, for all eternity.

    Quran not a book of science but used for miracles. There are Quranic scientific discoveries but when opposed; Quranic verses detailing scientific facts and scientific contradictions are allegorical and metaphorical.

    We are asked to look for physical signs such as the camel and olive for Intelligent Design but finds of Unintelligent design is dismissed. Or dismissed as this is an imperfect world. Yet Allah is the best of creators. Which he can be. And still not be.

    Do you guys have anymore?



    The last 2500 years or so of monotheistic "religious dialog" are really attempts to either solve or hide these paradoxes.  It always seems after the fact though.  God shows up, commands people to murder, kill, and plunder, and then leaves men to try and reason out the paradoxes.  

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #6 - November 05, 2010, 12:44 AM

    "Women and men are equal but different" - this isn't necessarily a paradox. It largely depends on your definition of equality because after all, you make a transaction of items of equal value whenever you are at a shop, but while your amount of money may be "equal" to the value of milk and eggs, they are completely different entities.


    It isn't a paradox because the statement "Women and men are equal" is stating they are equal legally while "but different" speaks of physiological differences.  It doesn't follow that having boobs necessitates a different criminal or procedural law.  It is an apple and oranges statement. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #7 - November 05, 2010, 01:22 AM

     Afro

    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."~Steven Weinberg
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #8 - November 05, 2010, 01:29 AM

    It isn't a paradox because the statement "Women and men are equal" is stating they are equal legally while "but different" speaks of physiological differences.  It doesn't follow that having boobs necessitates a different criminal or procedural law.  It is an apple and oranges statement. 


    Very much so, Islam is inconsistent. My point was rather that equality = synonymity is not a necessary statement.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #9 - November 05, 2010, 01:49 AM

    We are born with a "fitra" which is pure and good, but we must fight against our "nafs" which leads us astray.

    Allah curses those who change their "God-given" bodies by plucking hairs on their faces, but WANTS us to shave our "God-given" pubic hair and pluck our "God-given"armpit hair (ouch!).

    An adoptive father who raises a girl from birth is haram for the girl when she grows up, but  the brother of a woman who merely breastfed her and may have no connection to her at all, isn't.

    Your "risq" comes to you no matter what as it is ordained by Allah. So now why have so many millions of people starved to death? And why do Muslims leave their hellhole countries in search of wealth in the West if Allah gives them their ordained amount anyway?

    Allah changes his mind. First he allowed some things or didn't allow them in the Bible and then the Quran, and then he said, "Ah well, let's try something else." If He's All-Knowing, wouldn't He have figured out that alcohol should be banned from the get go?

     



     


    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."~Steven Weinberg
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #10 - November 05, 2010, 03:33 AM

    Quote
    Allah curses those who change their "God-given" bodies by plucking hairs on their faces, but WANTS us to shave our "God-given" pubic hair and pluck our "God-given"armpit hair (ouch!).


    You know, I always thought that to be very odd. It doesn't make any sense. Plucking 20 eyebrow hairs is haram, but plucking hundreds of armpit hairs is not "disfiguring" the creation of Allah?

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #11 - November 05, 2010, 07:31 AM

    We are born with a "fitra" which is pure and good, but we must fight against our "nafs" which leads us astray.

    Allah curses those who change their "God-given" bodies by plucking hairs on their faces, but WANTS us to shave our "God-given" pubic hair and pluck our "God-given"armpit hair (ouch!).

    An adoptive father who raises a girl from birth is haram for the girl when she grows up, but  the brother of a woman who merely breastfed her and may have no connection to her at all, isn't.

    Your "risq" comes to you no matter what as it is ordained by Allah. So now why have so many millions of people starved to death? And why do Muslims leave their hellhole countries in search of wealth in the West if Allah gives them their ordained amount anyway?

    Allah changes his mind. First he allowed some things or didn't allow them in the Bible and then the Quran, and then he said, "Ah well, let's try something else." If He's All-Knowing, wouldn't He have figured out that alcohol should be banned from the get go?

     



     




    Very nice!
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #12 - November 05, 2010, 07:35 AM

    "Women and men are equal but different" - this isn't necessarily a paradox. It largely depends on your definition of equality because after all, you make a transaction of items of equal value whenever you are at a shop, but while your amount of money may be "equal" to the value of milk and eggs, they are completely different entities.


    Word.

    Vaginas and penises are equal - they are human sexual organs and necessary for coitus and reproduction. But they are different - hence a vagina is a vagina and a penis is a penis. My wife loves me. I love my wife. But we are of different genders. Does that imply inequality? The equality between us is the love we have for each other. Which allows us to be connected.

    To assert that everything has to be the same in order to be equal betrays an inability to comprehend unity within diversity.

    In any given field of study, the subject is the unity. However a field of study can only arise in the first place if there is a diversity.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #13 - November 05, 2010, 07:41 AM

    OK let's put it this way Quran says man and woman are equal but yet you need 2 female witnesses for one male witness. And the inheritance laws for women are not equal; daughters inherit half of the sons. Men are the maintainers of women etc.

    The point of equal but different is within an Islamic context, there are glaring inequalities between the genders but this sentiment "equal yet different" is parroted with its contradiction neck in tow. Like an albatross around its neck the argument will bring itself down and whoever espouses it.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #14 - November 05, 2010, 07:49 AM

    Your fate is sealed with predestination but you have free-will which will decide the outcome of your predestined fate.


    Actually thats not the case in Islam. Islamic schools of thought either subscribe to there being a free-will or not. In any case it seems that the Quran doesn't explain much about free will, will or predestination.

    In Abrahamic religions free will and predestination cannot co-exist. In Hinduism, there is both predestination and free-will but this "free-will" exists in a different sort of way. You never "submit to the Will of God"/"give up your free-will in exchange for "God" 's Will"

    Everything already is in submission to God's Will but it is hard to capture and describe.

    "free-will" in Hinduism means to be your-Self regardless of the status-quo. To do what you think is righteous regardless of what the rest of the world might have to say about it.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #15 - November 05, 2010, 07:53 AM

    OK let's put it this way Quran says man and woman are equal but yet you need 2 female witnesses for one male witness. And the inheritance laws for women are not equal; daughters inherit half of the sons. Men are the maintainers of women etc.

    The point of equal but different is within an Islamic context, there are glaring inequalities between the genders but this sentiment "equal yet different" is parroted with its contradiction neck in tow. Like an albatross around its neck the argument will bring itself down and whoever espouses it.



    Oh, we're in agreement then. Sorry I didn't know what you actually meant by the paradox of equal yet not the same.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #16 - November 05, 2010, 08:02 AM

    The human body is a marvellous creation, the final of the creations in Heaven, Allah is the best of Creators, but the penis still needs to be circumcised.

    We can't have tattoos or piercings or any other form of body-art but self-mutilation is obligatory.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #17 - November 05, 2010, 08:05 AM

    There is nothing equal about men and women in Islam. Men are created a degree above women in everything under Islam, except basic animal roles that only a woman is capable of anyway, like being a womb.

    Islam is a men’s club. Paradise is a men’s club. A woman who converts to Islam of her own free will must loath herself or want to punish herself for something.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #18 - November 05, 2010, 08:13 AM

    The Kitab is mubeen (clear), but you need tafsirs to understand it properly.

  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #19 - November 05, 2010, 08:17 AM

    Good ones here:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=7218.0

    What do you guys think about this whole story, where Allah asks Iblis the Jinn to bow down before Adam? Iblis refuses to do this, because he thinks his own nature is superior to that of a human. Because of this disobedience Allah curses him, but Iblis isn't punished immediately. He gets respite until Judgment Day and is even allowed to lead humans astray.


    Notice what Iblis says in verse 83 and contrast it with this verse:

    To my mind this looks like a contradiction. It's Iblis who said he won't touch the servants of Allah, but certainly he can't lie to the Allmighty and still try to deceive his faithful believers. It should be some kind of natural law that will restrict Satan, and yet in 22:52 we read that Satan is even able to attack Allah's prophets!



  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #20 - November 05, 2010, 08:27 AM

    Men and women are equal, but polygamy is allowed and polyandry is not. 4:34 is for men to use against women and not vice-versa.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #21 - November 05, 2010, 08:30 AM

    Quran has limited polygamy, but there is no limit on the amount of "right-hand possessions" i.e. sex-slaves and concubines.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #22 - November 05, 2010, 08:31 AM

    This will help:

    Most Common Questions asked by Non-Muslims answers by Dr. Zakir Naik

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/14827953/Most-Common-Questions-asked-by-NonMuslims-answers-by-Dr-Zakir-Naik-from-QA-of-wwwirfnet
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #23 - November 05, 2010, 08:35 AM

    The human body is a marvellous creation, the final of the creations in Heaven, Allah is the best of Creators, but the penis still needs to be circumcised.

    We can't have tattoos or piercings or any other form of body-art but self-mutilation is obligatory.


     Afro

    ...
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #24 - November 05, 2010, 11:03 AM

    There is nothing equal about men and women in Islam. Men are created a degree above women in everything under Islam, except basic animal roles that only a woman is capable of anyway, like being a womb.

    Islam is a men’s club. Paradise is a men’s club. A woman who converts to Islam of her own free will must loath herself or want to punish herself for something.

     

    Bingo! It comes as a big surprise when women who live in societies that are the amongst freest in the world proclaim "Islam liberates women!" In a way it does, it frees them from their senses, no wonder they keep getting these 'awesome spiritual experiences' at odd places.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #25 - November 05, 2010, 11:09 AM

    ^ I think it might be a subconscious acceptance of the fact that Allah is very bitch-like. Essentially a Goddess. Especially in contrast to the "Holy Father" of Christianity.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #26 - November 05, 2010, 11:17 AM

    I mean its also true when you think about it by observing Muslim men. Imagine Allah is an invisible extremely large vagina that wants to be honoured by every man. Allah is a like a Big Pimp Mistress, a Queen, to whom all men are Her bugs at Her disposal. She wants Her bugs to fight amongst themselves over Her. She wants those who have subjected to her glorious labia to cajole others to do so as well.

    The way Muslim men fight over Allah is exactly like what one would expect over a Big Pimp Mistress. And this Big Pimp Mistress allows Her slaves who arouses Her to downtrod upon their wives because of Her envy.

    A very woman-like thing. Only females can get this ugly over self-glorification wanting blood of men to be spilled and fellow females to be bruised and humiliated in the process.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #27 - November 05, 2010, 11:25 AM


    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #28 - November 05, 2010, 11:28 AM

    edited
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #29 - November 05, 2010, 11:47 AM

    lol why are the Supreme Gods of every religion so silly? In Islam Muslim men knock themselves over in claiming Allah. In Hinduism, the women fantasize over Vishnu/Krishna.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OTM3yXVvk8

    Quote
    English:

    My mind wavers, O! Kanna,
    the joyous bewitching song of your flute.
    my mind wavers, O! Kanna!
    with your entrancing song

    An unmoving statue I stand
    time flies by and I know it not
    Muraleedhara, the Unknowable
    my mind wavers

    The clear moon blazes as a noon sun
    my eyebrows arch, searching the horizon
    the breeze brings your ripe melody
    and my eyes dizzy, i feel strange

    Delight me by granting the place in your difficult heart,
    embrace mine, gift it sense and make it bloom
    like the ray of the sun that merges with the roaring waves of the ocean
    like the anklets in union, make merry

    I call you thus with my heart wrenching cries
    and you, you revel with other women.
    Is this right? Is it proper?
    Is it at all just?


    While the flute plays, like the dancing foliage
    my mind laden with sorrow
    wavers, my kanna, it wavers
    with your joyously bewitching song


     Cheesy

    *wipes tears off eyes* she... is definitely... must have gotten her knickers drenched...
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