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 Topic: Who else is still a virgin?

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  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #300 - December 08, 2010, 02:13 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on December 08, 2010, 02:04 PM
    Not then it can't but will be able to if its not murdered.


    What does that matter?
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #301 - December 08, 2010, 02:13 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on December 08, 2010, 02:07 PM
    No, that's not the same thing, and PS has a valid point there.  Once a baby is born any competent adult can keep it alive, before its born its growing inside someone else's body - and that person has rights too.


    And the zygote does not then according to you?  Just because it cannot survive in any other way?  Mind you I am only referring to general cases.  When the mother's life is in danger, then abortion should be considered.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #302 - December 08, 2010, 02:15 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on December 08, 2010, 01:54 PM
    Killing what will be 1 day another human.


    Please explain how you have come to the conclusion that this is what constitutes murder.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #303 - December 08, 2010, 02:15 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 02:10 PM
    It still requires work/energy to get it to develop into a fully functioning human. Any of those sperm could be artifically inseminated into an egg.


    How the sperm fuses with the egg is quite irrelevant.  The fact is that it has fused and become a zygote.  Now tell me why the fact that work should be done justifies the 'human in waiting' having someone who can decide to limit its life and deny it the chance to live and reach adulthood.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #304 - December 08, 2010, 02:16 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 02:13 PM
    And the zygote does not then according to you?  Just because it cannot survive in any other way?  Mind you I am only referring to general cases.  When the mother's life is in danger, then abortion should be considered.


    A zygote does not have rights, no.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #305 - December 08, 2010, 02:16 PM
    I didn't say the zygote had no rights, I'm pointing out that there is more than one set of rights to consider in any abortion debate.  When  there is a potential clash of rights people are forced to come down on one side or the other, eg, risk to the mother's life, rape victims.  Its really not the same as murder, and not fair to compare somebody making such a choice to a murderer.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #306 - December 08, 2010, 02:18 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 02:16 PM
    A zygote does not have rights, no.


    And why is that?  Why should a zygote be treated differently?
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #307 - December 08, 2010, 02:20 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 02:18 PM
    And why is that?  Why should a zygote be treated differently?


    Because it's different.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #308 - December 08, 2010, 02:20 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on December 08, 2010, 02:16 PM
    I didn't say the zygote had no rights, I'm pointing out that there is more than one set of rights to consider in any abortion debate.  When  there is a potential clash of rights people are forced to come down on one side or the other, eg, risk to the mother's life, rape victims.  Its really not the same as murder, and not fair to compare somebody making such a choice to a murderer.



    I have never argued that in extreme circumstances such as the ones you mentioned, abortion should not be considered.  Obviously the mother has a right to live to and should be allowed to have an abortion if her life is threatened.  I am also not opposed to it if the foetus will never have a chance of leading a healthy life.  My arguments are for situations involving unplanned pregnancies.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #309 - December 08, 2010, 02:22 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 02:20 PM
    Because it's different.


    Why should it be seen differently just because it has not developed into a conventional human form yet? 
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #310 - December 08, 2010, 02:24 PM
    Quote
    My arguments are for situations involving unplanned pregnancies.


    I partly agree with you then.  Abortion is overused in such circumstances, but I still don't see it as murder.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #311 - December 08, 2010, 02:25 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 02:15 PM
    How the sperm fuses with the egg is quite irrelevant.  


    The point was that in both cases it can, and will only, become a human if work is put in.

    Quote
    The fact is that it has fused and become a zygote.  Now tell me why the fact that work should be done entails the 'human in waiting' living with someone who can decide to limit its life and deny it the chance to live and reach adulthood.

     

    I'm sorry, could you rephrase that?
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #312 - December 08, 2010, 02:25 PM
    Quote from: Nessa on December 07, 2010, 08:59 PM
    muddy i dont believe in abortion Afro

    Then I gave you the other option. Let anyone else adopt your zygote.
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  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #313 - December 08, 2010, 02:26 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 02:22 PM
    Why should it be seen differently just because it has not developed into a conventional human form yet?  


    Because it is...
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #314 - December 08, 2010, 02:27 PM
    i think Women RIGHTS are above Fetal rights... if a woman doesn't feel like having a baby because of whatever reason (child as a rape result, economic reasons, social reasons or whatever) she has a right to abort the pregnancy. and this is for me pretty much the end of discussion regarding aborts....
    Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 14, 2011, 05:00 AM
    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #315 - December 08, 2010, 02:33 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 02:25 PM
    The point was that in both cases it can, and will only, become a human if work is put in.


    Again it is the product that  matters in this case.  The point is that the whole issue starts with the conception and the fact that you have a zygote which will eventually develop into a human

    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 02:25 PM

    I'm sorry, could you rephrase that?


    I am simply asking you why you think that the fact that work was done to bring about the zygote (which cannot decide not to come) gives some the right to deny it the chance of developing into a human being.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #316 - December 08, 2010, 02:33 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 01:53 PM
    Because I believe in living freely and I am against totalitarianism and slavery.  I believe that no individual or body has the right to impose or decide on the life of another or several.  I consider a foetus to be a human in development and this in my opinion makes it different from other cells.  And therefore I believe that no one has the right to impose and limit its course either (except in extreme circumstances)


    Are you a vegetarian?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #317 - December 08, 2010, 02:34 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 02:15 PM
    Please explain how you have come to the conclusion that this is what constitutes murder.


    Taking the life of wat would be a human  Huh?
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #318 - December 08, 2010, 02:35 PM
    Quote from: Bardhi_i_zi on December 08, 2010, 02:27 PM
    i think Women RIGHTS are above Fetal rights... if a woman doesn't feel like having a baby because of whatever reason (child as a rape result, economic reasons, social reasons or whatever) she has a right to abort the pregnancy. and this is for me pretty much the end of discussion regarding aborts....


    Are not fetuses (which can be females) also human?  
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #319 - December 08, 2010, 02:36 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on December 08, 2010, 02:33 PM
    Are you a vegetarian?


    No and it has nothing to do with my stances on abortion either. I am talking about human rights.  Eating animals for food has nothing to do with it.  What I am talking about only applies to animals of my species.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #320 - December 08, 2010, 02:37 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 02:33 PM
    Again it is the product that  matters in this case.  The point is that the whole issue starts with the conception and the fact that you have a zygote which will eventually develop into a human


    CAN. That CAN develop INTO a human.

    Quote
    I am simply asking you why you think that the fact that work was done to bring about the zygote (which cannot decide not to come) gives some the right to deny it the chance of developing into a human being.


    Because no one is obligated to do work to develop a zygote into a human.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #321 - December 08, 2010, 02:38 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on December 08, 2010, 02:34 PM
    Taking the life of wat would be a human  Huh?


    I know what you meant!!!!.... I'm asking why you think that!
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #322 - December 08, 2010, 02:41 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 02:37 PM
    CAN. That CAN develop INTO a human.


    Yes can, with a very high chance of doing so if not tampered with.  Why do you feel that you have the right to deny it that possibility?

    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 02:37 PM

    Because no one is obligated to do work to develop a zygote into a human.


    No one was obligated to fuck without protection and produce it in the first place either.  
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #323 - December 08, 2010, 02:44 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 02:41 PM
    Yes can, with a very high chance of doing so if not tampered with.  Why do you feel that you have the right to deny it that possibility?


    So now we are arguing on probabilities... this is progress...

    Why don't I?

    Quote
    No one was obligated to fuck and produce it in the first place either. 


    They may have fucked for a reason other than to produce a baby?
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #324 - December 08, 2010, 02:46 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 02:36 PM
    No and it has nothing to do with my stances on abortion either. I am talking about human rights.  Eating animals for food has nothing to do with it.  What I am talking about only applies to animals of my species.


    Chickens are more aware than a fetus. A chicken once resembled a human fetus - all animal fetusus look pretty much the same at that stage. All the reasons you've stated in your case against abortion apply equally to an adult chicken, except them not having the potential to become a human. A chicken is alive and will feel suffering and pain, more so than a fetus. You're killing something more developed, more aware of its surroundings, more aware of itself, more aware of danger, but thats ok.

    Why does the argument of awareness and potential, or freedom to exist apply only to humans in your world view?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #325 - December 08, 2010, 02:47 PM
    Can anyone separate abortion debate from virginity?
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  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #326 - December 08, 2010, 02:48 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on December 08, 2010, 01:54 PM
    Killing what will be 1 day another human. No matter how pro-abortion you are, deep down you're glad that 19 yrs ago your mum didn't have a choice of 'aborting' you.  Tongue


    You bleed out a 'potential human' every month.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #327 - December 08, 2010, 02:53 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 02:44 PM
    So now we are arguing on probabilities... this is progress...




    You are arguing about probabilities.  It is not a question of probabilities in my mind.  There will be no progress because I consider a zygote as having human life and you don't.


    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 02:44 PM

    Why don't I?


    Judging by my values you are limiting another human entity's life and it is something I find disagreeable.

    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 02:44 PM

    They may have fucked for a reason other than to produce a baby?



    So what?  I'm sure the cunt who got killed yesterday was not intending to wrap his car around the lamp post either when he went speeding after downing a bottle of Jack.  But there was also a good chance of that happening and it did.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #328 - December 08, 2010, 02:54 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on December 08, 2010, 02:48 PM
    You bleed out a 'potential human' every month.


    On its own its nothing.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #329 - December 08, 2010, 02:56 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on December 08, 2010, 02:54 PM
    On its own its nothing.


    Neither is a fetus.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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