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 Topic: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money

 (Read 6935 times)
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  • Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     OP - November 29, 2010, 11:28 PM

    'its de nail on da 'ead bruvz. Grin

    ---

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704243904575630273598567144.html

    Britain's war against radical Islam must be the first war in human history in which a country pays its enemies better than its own troops. If you fight the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan as a British soldier, you can expect to earn about £17,000. But if you are a U.K. citizen, or even a foreigner whose asylum request has been rejected, and train with Britain's enemies, you can make your fortune courtesy of the new U.K. Bank of Jihad.

    Prime Minister David Cameron's government said last week that it was going to spend millions of pounds to compensate 16 terror suspects who were imprisoned by the U.S. in Guantanamo. All claim they were tortured or abused by the Americans and their allies. Their lawyers claim that by not preventing this, the U.K. government is complicit.

    Earlier this year the new government ordered an inquiry into alleged British collusion in torture. Yet Prime Minister Cameron felt he first had to resolve civil cases brought against the government by detainees. While claiming it did not concede any guilt, the government did just that by trying to pay off the complainants. The damage to the government's reputation and country's security might be irreparable.

    Although it may be hard to believe if you are a British newspaper reader, those Guantanamo inmates are not pillars of British rectitude. Take the case of Binyam Mohamed. He is not a British citizen but a rejected asylum seeker who left for Afghanistan in 2001 to receive paramilitary training, including in arms handling and explosives. Part of his training was from a senior al Qaida operative. And this is just what he admitted to his legal representative.

    While under interrogation at Guantanamo, Mohamed said he had proposed attacks on U.S. subway trains to senior al Qaeda figures, trained with al Qaeda in Pakistan, received instructions to travel to the U.S. to carry out terror attacks and, along with Jose Padilla (who began a 17-year jail term in August 2007), planned a radioactive "dirty bomb" attack in the U.S. American intelligence officials suspect that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed himself, the 9/11 mastermind, directed Mohamed's operations. Abu Zubaydah, an al-Qaeda recruiter for Osama bin Laden also detained at Guantanamo Bay, identified Mohamed as part of the "dirty bomb" plot.

    Then there is Richard Belmar, who admits travelling to Afghanistan to attend a military training camp in July 2001. There he received basic weapons, war tactics, and navigation training. Belmar claims it was not until near the end of his training that he realized he was at a terrorist camp. He says he thought it was "just a military training camp for Muslims."

    Like Mohamed, he acknowledges training at al Qaeda's notorious al Farouq camp, where at least seven of the 9/11 hijackers trained along with John Walker Lindh (the U.S. citizen convicted in 2002 for joining the Taliban). In the U.S., attendance at the al Farouq camp was enough for a federal court to sentence six Yemeni Americans to between seven and 10 years in prison for "providing material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization."

    Nevertheless, in its wisdom, the British government will not prosecute any of the detainees. Instead it has decided that not only will it remain perfectly legal to train with our enemies, but that if you get picked up on the battlefield, there could be a cash bonanza to mark your service.

    Other perfectly innocent Guantanamo residents who mysteriously found themselves firing weapons in terrorist training camps, and now expect a windfall, are a trio of British citizens known as the Tipton Three. They admitted going to a Taliban training camp "on many occasions to find out what was happening." Questioned as to why they ended up firing AK-47s while there, one offered "you want to hold it. You want to see what it's like."

    It is not only the state that is at fault here. Sections of our civil society are also in on this societal suicide pact. Take yet another British citizen receiving a large pay-out, Moazzam Begg. He admitted to the U.S. Combatant Status Review Board in 2004 that he visited a camp on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border in 1993 that was "responsible for training Kashmiri refugees in small arms and mountain tactics," as well as attending a training camp in Afghanistan in 1998. He also fought in Bosnia. A Special Immigration Appeals Commission document from October 2003 identifies him as an "extremist" who stored weapons at his home. Yet Begg is now proclaimed by so-called human-rights groups to be a hero. He is feted and toured around by the likes of Amnesty International. The head of another human-rights organization, Liberty, has praised Begg as a "wonderful advocate. . . for human rights and in particular for human liberty."

    Taking in the full enormity of what Britain is doing requires a moment of pause. Every day our troops are shot at, wounded, and killed, while being paid a pittance. But jihadis, wannabe-jihadis and assorted radicals are not only allowed to train to kill our troops and allies, they are now to be rewarded by the British taxpayer for doing so. The press remains cowed and the human-rights industry becomes their megaphone. This is not just how a country embarrasses itself. It is how democracies perish.


  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #1 - November 29, 2010, 11:42 PM


    The fact that these douchebags are receiving compensation is another reason to curse the day that George Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld compromised the very principles that we in the west are supposed to uphold by instituting Guantanamo.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #2 - November 29, 2010, 11:59 PM

    Dubya's fault they're are receiving compensation?!

    Oh I'm kidding! But please explain. I wish to seek a viewpoint, I come in peace. Grin
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #3 - November 30, 2010, 12:02 AM

    Hint: they are considered innocent until proven guilty.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #4 - November 30, 2010, 12:02 AM

    I thought it was self-evident HO.

     No Guantanamo, no violations of the principles America and Britain were supposed to uphold, therefore no obligation by Britain to pay compensation to these douchebags.

     

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #5 - November 30, 2010, 12:12 AM

    Oh that perceptive. Yes, okay, I see. Well, I see it that principles of the US/Britain are to be applied to those who earn it (by living by those principles). I don't see why men heading over to Afghanistan training camps are to be given the same lenient rights. No nation would survive if it treated it’s enemies as domestic criminals, I think.
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #6 - November 30, 2010, 12:18 AM

    Oh that perceptive. Yes, okay, I see. Well, I see it that principles of the US/Britain are to be applied to those who earn it (by living by those principles). I don't see why men heading over to Afghanistan training camps are to be given the same lenient rights.


    Don't confuse principles with rights. Rights are universal, but principles aren't necessarily. My country was founded on the idea that rights, by definition, were not something you earned, but something everyone is born with. I agree with that assessment.

    Quote
    No nation would survive if it treated it’s enemies as domestic criminals, I think.


    Probably correct on that point.

    fuck you
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #7 - November 30, 2010, 12:23 AM

    Oh that perceptive. Yes, okay, I see. Well, I see it that principles of the US/Britain are to be applied to those who earn it (by living by those principles)


    We live in the world we live in.

    I would rather see British jehadis put on trial for treason under domestic law than to have them sit in the limbo of Guantanamo.



     

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #8 - November 30, 2010, 12:40 AM

    Tell you what, if these men truly can be rehabilitated and to tip-off terrorism activity like the ex-Guantanamo Yemeni detainee (who tipped-off about the cargo bomb) then I'm all for rehabilitating them in Guantanamo.
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #9 - November 30, 2010, 12:43 AM


    They can be 'rehabilitated' in normal prisons. And tip offs come from good intelligence, and that can be gained in many ways, including offering incentives inside the judicial system.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #10 - November 30, 2010, 12:48 AM

    Tell you what, if these men truly can be rehabilitated and to tip-off terrorism activity like the ex-Guantanamo Yemeni detainee (who tipped-off about the cargo bomb) then I'm all for rehabilitating them in Guantanamo.


    ...
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #11 - November 30, 2010, 01:13 AM

    lol  Prince, you think way too sinisterly.

    They can be 'rehabilitated' in normal prisons.


    If a mind is too beyond the point of return and you want info on terrorist plots, are enhanced interrogation techniques a good means to an end?

    And tip offs come from good intelligence, and that can be gained in many ways, including offering incentives inside the judicial system.


    Pay for terrorism tip-offs, perhaps this condition should be in the payment terms and conditions in the small print by Cameron, haha! Sorry, bad form to joke on these matters.
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #12 - November 30, 2010, 01:15 AM

    lol  Prince, you think way too sinisterly.



    What is it about Guantanamo bay that 'rehabilitates' prisoners, to the point that they will tip you off, better than a normal prison can?
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #13 - November 30, 2010, 01:25 AM

    At least the " maybe they will be rehabilited" is a better line than " if they weren't terrorists before, they will be if we let them out"

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #14 - November 30, 2010, 01:49 AM

    Wait so a Serial killer or a murderer needs less rehabilitation than a terrorist ?

    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #15 - November 30, 2010, 01:57 AM

    BTW HighOctane, have you read '1984'?
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #16 - November 30, 2010, 02:10 AM

    Outstanding book!!

    No prince,  rehab not mind control with the thought police, doublethink or rewriting the conflict with Oceana (or was it Eurasia?). Sinister think you! Grin
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #17 - November 30, 2010, 03:33 AM

    Sure... because torture has never gone on in Guantanamo bay...

    I think you should bear that book in mind everytime you make a political post from here on in... especially when you want to ban 'memes'... because the great unwashed, the common people cannot think for themselves... we the enlightened must do it for them, because their minds are susceptible to 'dangerous' ideas... that is, ideas we don't agree with it... we must erase these memes from society... because that is how humanity progresses...without open debate.. that's why we are where we are... right?

    Also, please read Bakunin's God and the State. Smiley

    What is the difference between you and Islamists? Your approach and methods are pretty much the same. What sets you apart? You keep answering with 'ah yeah, but OUR memes are better' while they are standing next to you saying the same thing.

    What is it about Guantanamo bay that 'rehabilitates' prisoners, to the point that they will tip you off, better than a normal prison can?


    Would like an answer to this ^
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #18 - November 30, 2010, 07:47 AM

    Sure I'll get back to this, actually. No problem. (Pls bump up the thread if I don’t) It has been explained in other threads. Compromises of consequentialism and how to organise a children's party youtube clip.
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #19 - November 30, 2010, 07:50 AM

    HighOctane you didn't seriously just defend Gitmo?
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #20 - November 30, 2010, 07:54 AM

    I don't know enough to defend it to be honest.
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #21 - November 30, 2010, 07:56 AM

    And you don't know enough to criticize it?
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #22 - November 30, 2010, 08:24 AM

    I don't know enough to defend it to be honest.


    The whole point of Gitmo is that its supposedly outside US legal jurisdiction therefore the detainees there have almost no rights - a bare minimum of those granted by the Geneva Conventions.

    Why do you think Obama decided to close to place? Because its basically illegal.
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #23 - November 30, 2010, 08:28 AM

    Had they not been illegally imprisoned, tortured etc. then they wouldn't receive no compensation now would they?! Human rights are universal.
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #24 - November 30, 2010, 08:34 AM

    Quote
    Had they not been illegally imprisoned, tortured etc. then they wouldn't receive no compensation now would they?! Human rights are universal.

     

    And that is the crux of the matter.

    At the end of the day, our principles are superior to those of jehadis and Islamists. And the principles that Guantanamo violates are part of that.

    Even the Nazis at Nuremburg had full legal rights.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #25 - November 30, 2010, 08:40 AM

    'the west' has been directly supporting or has kept silent about human rights abuses well before gitmo opened though. And this is used as propaganda by those very islamists! I remember reading somewhere on fb where a guy said that the free world remained free by supporting brutal dictators to stop communism and today they do the same to stop the "rise of Islam" and that kind of propaganda works.

    At the end of the day if the US practised what it preached it wouldn't be the superpower it is today. Modern pseudo-empires are no different to the ottoman, roman and other empires they all had to do some inhumane things to stay alive and No.1
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #26 - November 30, 2010, 08:44 AM

    International relations are dirty and cynical shocker.

    Quote
    and today they do the same to stop the "rise of Islam" and that kind of propaganda works.


    Of course it works, because so many Muslims are susceptible to these kinds of explanations about why Islam is not dominating humanity.  

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #27 - December 05, 2010, 12:30 PM

    Just when you thought I'd let this one brush under the carpet ..... why hello Prince Spinoza!  bunny

    Right, in order to effectively discuss, let's clarify the question.

    Sure... because torture has never gone on in Guantanamo bay...

    I think you should bear that book in mind everytime you make a political post from here on in... especially when you want to ban 'memes'... because the great unwashed, the common people cannot think for themselves... we the enlightened must do it for them, because their minds are susceptible to 'dangerous' ideas... that is, ideas we don't agree with it... we must erase these memes from society... because that is how humanity progresses...without open debate.. that's why we are where we are... right?

    Also, please read Bakunin's God and the State. Smiley

    What is the difference between you and Islamists? Your approach and methods are pretty much the same. What sets you apart? You keep answering with 'ah yeah, but OUR memes are better' while they are standing next to you saying the same thing.

    Would like an answer to this ^


    Right, so as I interpret it, the main question is this: while Islamists try to enforce they Islamic memes into people through some serious mind indoctrination (i.e. from child suicide bombers in Pakistan to preaches of Zakir Naik), you are asking what is the difference between that, and my ideas for promoting better memes (sometimes with necessary bans in place like that of Sharia and Bukra).
    I also see two other questions:
    - Is torture okay to be done in Guantanamo bay?
    - Is it okay to erase these memes from society to those ideas we don't agree with? (Btw, this question is loaded as a leading question, but I’m basing it off your perceptive wrt what’s written above)

    Please check that's what you are asking, and I'll get back to you.
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #28 - December 05, 2010, 12:36 PM

    The whole point of Gitmo is that its supposedly outside US legal jurisdiction therefore the detainees there have almost no rights - a bare minimum of those granted by the Geneva Conventions.


    If further terrorist plots are foiled, do the ends justify the means?

    No paranoia here, honest, only a wiki list to grow:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foiled_Islamic_terrorist_plots_in_the_post-9/11_United_States
  • Re: Rewarding jihadis with British taxpayers' money
     Reply #29 - December 05, 2010, 01:26 PM

    How is that list related to Gitmo?

    And how do you not know about all the people that were released with no charges? We're talking kids, teenagers, imprisoned for 8 years and then simply released.
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