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 Topic: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop

 (Read 5767 times)
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  • "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     OP - December 01, 2010, 12:39 PM
    A Saudi religious police commander criticized the kingdom's ban on gender mixing late Tuesday and said women did not have to veil their faces to applause from his female audience.

    Sheikh Ahmed al-Ghamdi, head of the Mecca branch of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, also said there was nothing in Islam to prevent women from driving, despite the Saudi ban on the practice.

    "There is a difference in interpretation of the (Quran) verse... which leads some scholars to rule that the whole body must be covered ... However other scholars approve showing the face, hands and elbows. And some even okayed the hair," he said.

    You can read the rest here:

    http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2010/12/01/128103.html
  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #1 - December 01, 2010, 12:43 PM
    Shame he's an enforcer rather than a decision maker
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  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #2 - December 01, 2010, 12:49 PM
    Progress, at least. Shame he has insufficient political influence to enforce these changes in society but it's a good start.

    Convincing the Saudi (Wahabbi) goverment to drop the veil and the ban on women driving and to embrace the orthodox Sunni interpretation on the Qur'anic verse is an unenviable task but change has to come from within.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #3 - December 01, 2010, 12:50 PM
    coool article. gives me some hope that the Muslim world might one day put these myths behind us. but I wonder how different in their thinking the younger ruling class (monarchy, scholars etc.) of Saudis are compared to the older generation in a much more general sense. anyone have any idea if they are more liberal generally?
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #4 - December 01, 2010, 12:54 PM
    everyone is a liberal when nobody is watching, abu  Wink
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #5 - December 01, 2010, 12:55 PM
    if that's true, hopefully it breaks free and lets loose one day  Smiley
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #6 - December 01, 2010, 12:57 PM
    Quote from: Heyjustlooking on December 01, 2010, 12:49 PM
    Progress, at least. Shame he has insufficient political influence to enforce these changes in society but it's a good start.

    Convincing the Saudi (Wahabbi) goverment to drop the veil and the ban on women driving and to embrace the orthodox Sunni interpretation on the Qur'anic verse is an unenviable task but change has to come from within.


    I think the "wahhabis" do follow orthodox sunni islam its just that the hanbalis are the most conservative of the 4 schools and that most sunnis follow the hanafi school which is the most liberal. But a certain 'wahhabi' scholar called sheikh albani said that driving a car was much better than riding a donkey  Cheesy so its permissible and that only covering the hair was needed.
  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #7 - December 01, 2010, 12:58 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on December 01, 2010, 12:50 PM
    coool article. gives me some hope that the Muslim world might one day put these myths behind us. but I wonder how different in their thinking the younger ruling class (monarchy, scholars etc.) of Saudis are compared to the older generation in a much more general sense. anyone have any idea if they are more liberal generally?

    The monarchy have always reluctantly shared the reign of power with the wahhabis because they have no choice.  Within the palaces all the working women are without a burkha, married or not.  

    I remember asking Debunker the same question, and he said most people still preferred Saudi as it was, and would not want to change if given the opportunity.
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  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #8 - December 01, 2010, 01:01 PM
    Quote
    I remember asking Debunker the same question, and he said most people still preferred Saudi as it was, and would not want to change if given the opportunity.


    Christ help us. I still have hope, maybe there are more debunkers than we know
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #9 - December 01, 2010, 01:04 PM
    I was surprised too, I was kinda hoping he would say the opposite.  But it sounds like Arab men are more old fashioned than desi's - I guess its going to be difficult expecting them to change, when everything the clerics are saying happens to work so well in their favour   Roll Eyes
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  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #10 - December 01, 2010, 01:10 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on December 01, 2010, 12:57 PM
    I think the "wahhabis" do follow orthodox sunni islam its just that the hanbalis are the most conservative of the 4 schools and that most sunnis follow the hanafi school which is the most liberal. But a certain 'wahhabi' scholar called sheikh albani said that driving a car was much better than riding a donkey  Cheesy so its permissible and that only covering the hair was needed.


    I wouldn't categorise the Wahabbis as the mainstream interpretation of Islam though, but they definitely have a lot of basis for their intepretations and have a lot of influence considering they are but a minority of the Muslim population.

    You're right Hanafis are the most liberal and Hanabalis the most conservative but the Wahabbis are a different sect altogether - they are Islamic purists, if you like.

    For them the veil is a mandatory part of Islamic tradition since they interpret the application of the Sunn'ah as Muhammad making his wives wear veils.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #11 - December 01, 2010, 01:19 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on December 01, 2010, 12:57 PM
    the hanbalis are the most conservative of the 4 schools

    what do you mean by this?
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  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #12 - December 01, 2010, 01:32 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 01, 2010, 01:19 PM
    what do you mean by this?


    Basically the most stringent in regards to women's dress out of the 4 schools.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #13 - December 01, 2010, 01:34 PM
    I thought they were from saudi too, how do they differ from wahhabis?
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  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #14 - December 01, 2010, 01:48 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 01, 2010, 01:34 PM
    I thought they were from saudi too, how do they differ from wahhabis?


    Not sure, actually. I think they are even more purist than hanabali even though the two are linked.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #15 - December 01, 2010, 02:57 PM
    Abdul wahhab based most of his teachings on ibn hanbals teachings. There is a 'conspiracy' view amongst some muslims about the 'wahhabis' being different coz of the british-saud alliance against the ottoman caliphate but what the don't realise is that abdul wahhab died well before the 1st saud-ottoman war never mind WW1!

    I don't think of 'wahhabis' as being bad intolerant people. I know a saudi girl quite well on utube and she is what some would call a 'wahhabi' and she's like really nice.
  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #16 - December 01, 2010, 03:01 PM
    Quote from: XxThaminaxX on December 01, 2010, 02:57 PM
    Abdul wahhab based most of his teachings on ibn hanbals teachings.

    Interesting - in other words 'wahhab' was a progressive  grin12
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  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #17 - December 01, 2010, 03:43 PM
    I think you mean regressing to the mean.
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #18 - December 01, 2010, 05:36 PM
    The Muslims outdo the kuffar in their obsession with women! Cheesy Cheesy
    Yeah! they can be very dangerous if they are allowed to go wild! Lmao


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: "No need" for women to cover up: Saudi religious cop
     Reply #19 - December 02, 2010, 10:28 AM
    Quote from: deusvult on December 01, 2010, 03:43 PM
    I think you mean regressing to the mean.


    more like the first measurement taken
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