God's Supreme Ambition?

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God's Supreme Ambition?
OP - December 15, 2010, 09:38 PM

After judgment and then either an eternity in Hell or an eternity in Heaven - what then?

Is that it?

Was that the sum total of God's great plan in doing all this?

The God who can do anything? The God who creates such marvels?

That some creatures he created will have fun without end in Paradise or suffer pain without end in Hell.

Even a child could come up with a better "Divine Plan" !!
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #1 - December 15, 2010, 09:45 PM

God is playing hide and seek with himself forever.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Reply #2 - December 15, 2010, 09:53 PM

Things that make you go hmmm...

Quote from: billy on February 13, 2011, 02:13 PM
"And lo, verily hath they spoken, not one of this tribe, upon whom these entreaties were beseeched for the Lord, could giveth a shit."

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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #3 - December 15, 2010, 09:57 PM

Conway twitty! you're supposed to draw our attention away with your songs and slightly over sized hair.
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Reply #4 - December 15, 2010, 10:00 PM

What annoys me when I ask such things to Muslims they tell me only God knows - he has a greater purpose than we know or can understand - he has just revealed what we need to know!

Sorry - but I need to know more.

Because what he has revealed would only satisfy the most dull and primitive.

And if he doesn't mean what he 'revealed' but means something else - then what's the point of revealing what he did.

Was it to misguide the intelligent but guide the foolish?
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Reply #5 - December 15, 2010, 10:03 PM

Perhaps God is a procrastanater.

'Ill get round to finishing it later! and I know I will ,because I know everything...'
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #6 - December 15, 2010, 10:22 PM

The answer is simple, we are mere entertainment. Can you imagine doing nothing for eternity? That would drive me insane.

Musa, mihi causas memora, quo numine laeso,
quidve dolens, regina deum tot volvere casus
insignem pietate virum, tot adire labores
impulerit. Tantaene animis caelestibus irae?

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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #7 - December 15, 2010, 10:24 PM

Quote from: mighty_cats on December 15, 2010, 09:57 PM
Conway twitty! you're supposed to draw our attention away with your songs and slightly over sized hair.

Sorry, I'll get right on that!

Quote from: billy on February 13, 2011, 02:13 PM
"And lo, verily hath they spoken, not one of this tribe, upon whom these entreaties were beseeched for the Lord, could giveth a shit."

Read my blog here: http://dimunituvediva.wordpress.com/
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #8 - December 15, 2010, 10:26 PM

Quote from: OccupiedVoid on December 15, 2010, 10:22 PM
The answer is simple, we are mere entertainment. Can you imagine doing nothing for eternity? That would drive me insane.

You could occupy your time thinking how to kill yourself, if God did that to you.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.
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Reply #9 - December 15, 2010, 10:30 PM

I suppose we should not be surprised that humans with limited ambitions should imagine a God of limited ambitions.
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Reply #10 - December 15, 2010, 10:34 PM

Yes, Hassan, but unfortunately (?) it falls to this limited intellect to receive God's message about heaven and whatnot. If we, as human beings, have no means to understand/imagine/think/come close/have an idea about what he means, why bother to bring a message to us at all?

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.
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Reply #11 - December 15, 2010, 10:37 PM

Quote from: z10 on December 15, 2010, 09:45 PM
God is playing hide and seek with himself forever.

Oh, very Alan Watts of you.

But now a great thing in the street
Seems any human nod,
Where shift in strange democracy
The million masks of God.
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Reply #12 - December 15, 2010, 10:40 PM

Quote from: Hassan on December 15, 2010, 10:30 PM
I suppose we should not be surprised that humans with limited ambitions should imagine a God of limited ambitions.

Hadrat Hassan,

I believe it was Voltaire who quipped, It is said that God created man in his image, and if that's true, we certainly returned the favour.
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Reply #13 - December 15, 2010, 10:40 PM

Quote from: Winna on December 15, 2010, 10:34 PM
If we, as human beings, have no means to understand/imagine/think/come close/have an idea about what he means, why bother to bring a message to us at all?

Exactly!
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Reply #14 - December 15, 2010, 10:42 PM

Quote from: Zebedee on December 15, 2010, 10:40 PM
Hadrat Hassan,

I believe it was Voltaire who quipped, It is said that God created man in his image, and if that's true, we certainly returned the favour.

Perfect!

(lol @ Hadrat Hassan )
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Reply #15 - December 15, 2010, 10:42 PM

Muslims will argue by saying we have limited knoweldge, recieved from God. Our human brain does not have the capacity to withstand the infinite of infinite knoweledge.

I then say, what the fuck is the point of infinity?
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Reply #16 - December 15, 2010, 10:45 PM

Quote from: abzm94 on December 15, 2010, 10:42 PM
Muslims will argue by saying we have limited knoweldge, recieved from God. Our human brain does not have the capacity to withstand the infinite of infinite knoweledge.

I then say, what the fuck is the point of infinity?

And why bother 'revealing' crap that is totally misleading and billions of people will think is true?
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Reply #17 - December 15, 2010, 10:47 PM

Quote
If we, as human beings, have no means to understand/imagine/think/come close/have an idea about what he means, why bother to bring a message to us at all?

to see what would happen

Musa, mihi causas memora, quo numine laeso,
quidve dolens, regina deum tot volvere casus
insignem pietate virum, tot adire labores
impulerit. Tantaene animis caelestibus irae?

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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #18 - December 15, 2010, 10:52 PM

I'm absolutely speechless regarding this topic I'll just standby and watch from the shadows...

I'm open for debate (of why we should re-/embrace Islam), but I will no longer participate in this forum. Message me if you need anything. Good luck and may you all find your way... again...
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Reply #19 - December 15, 2010, 10:53 PM

Quote from: Zebedee on December 15, 2010, 10:37 PM
Oh, very Alan Watts of you.

But now a great thing in the street
Seems any human nod,
Where shift in strange democracy
The million masks of God.

very poetic indeed
but I must contend that alan watts didn't invent this idea

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Reply #20 - December 15, 2010, 11:01 PM

Quote from: Hassan on December 15, 2010, 10:45 PM
And why bother 'revealing' crap that is totally misleading and billions of people will think is true?

Exactly.

That's why Im slowly turning into a form of deist. To me it kinda makes sense that God would have created us, not for the purpose of religion, but for the purpose to seek and find reason.

Thats the beauty of life as well. There's no answer.
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Reply #21 - December 15, 2010, 11:05 PM

Quote from: z10 on December 15, 2010, 10:53 PM
very poetic indeed
but I must contend that alan watts didn't invent this idea

Yes, and I doubt he'd make such a claim for himself either. He was a student of Eastern 'mysticism', from which he no doubt drew his philosophy.
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Reply #22 - December 15, 2010, 11:07 PM

I think it would be fair to say that nearly every mystical tradition would agree with that sentiment.

btw (and I apologise hassan for hijacking your thread for a moment) what exactly is going on in your avatar?

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Reply #23 - December 15, 2010, 11:22 PM

Yes, indeed.

And my avatar is a depiction of Muhammad on Buraq, with the angel Jibreel, watching the sinners being tortured in Hell Fire by some other angels, including the angel Malik. Rather grim, yes, but I think the picture is not without artistic merit, unsettling though it may be.

Notice also that Muhammad is depicted and his face isn't covered. Very strange for Islamic art, I should think.
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Reply #24 - December 15, 2010, 11:28 PM

I used to ask questions along this line when I was Christian. Even when they understood the question, they seldom had anything like an answer.

El bien mas preciado / es la libertad
hay que defenderla / con fe y valor.
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Reply #25 - December 15, 2010, 11:41 PM

Quote from: Zebedee on December 15, 2010, 11:22 PM
Yes, indeed.

And my avatar is a depiction of Muhammad on Buraq, with the angel Jibreel, watching the sinners being tortured in Hell Fire by some other angels, including the angel Malik. Rather grim, yes, but I think the picture is not without artistic merit, unsettling though it may be.

Notice also that Muhammad is depicted and his face isn't covered. Very strange for Islamic art, I should think.

That is very strange. I don't think I've come across any depictions of Muhamamad that do not have his face covered wth a ball of light.
I agree that this is of artistic merit, after all, we have plenty of interpretations of dante's journey into hell.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Reply #26 - December 15, 2010, 11:44 PM

Quote from: Hassan on December 15, 2010, 10:00 PM
What annoys me when I ask such things to Muslims they tell me only God knows - he has a greater purpose than we know or can understand - he has just revealed what we need to know!

I find it funny somehow... Allow me to play around a bit... (trying to get it!)

So, after death and/or judgment, we will receive more answers. But, if we already weren't capable of understanding the answers (because of our human limitation), then the answers must come along with some change in our being. I mean, only if we cease being the limited humans we are, and gain somehow a new level of being - we would be capable of receiving/understanding the answer.

What does that make us? Angels/Satan?

If it makes us angels, bad news for who believes in Satan: angels have freedom of choice too, and can be held responsible for their choices in front of God, etc, so even if they have a better understanding than us, they still can - and do - the same as us. Not exactly a promotion, then, heh. And still can't explain how come they do something wrong then, if they TRULY understand.

If you think angels are perfect (so no Satan), you're in for more trouble. Say they understood the point of it, and they're happy in eternal grace praising God. Well, then our ultimate purpose in this life is to be worthy of being allowed to become what today we might call "dumb sheep". Not even mentioning the fact that you kinda have too many "perfect" beings here. *headscratch*

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.
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Reply #27 - December 16, 2010, 02:43 AM

Boredom makes people do stupid things , with God being alone no partners and shit it can be lonely so he decided to get a little creative and write down everything that will happen , to add a bit of spice he created the devil so things can get a little exciting its like Gods version of reality tv . I can just imagine him sitting down eating chocolates watching us do all kinds of shit , the tv show is bit like big brother you get a list of commandments and consequences for your actions and the day of judgement is the eviction . Then we just chill out in heaven having immortal sex (which is awesome of course) with the 72 virgins . So I think God wanted entertainment , you know we can all get inscure everyonce in a while . Some of us result to make up , plastic surgery .....God just wants you to praise him all day everyday !!!!!!!!! Personally I think he should have got that mirror in snow white where it just praises you it would be a lot more easier than having mankind !

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Reply #28 - December 16, 2010, 02:46 AM

TheCuteRebel, that last phrase specially, which I'd quote, is pure win!

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.
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Reply #29 - December 16, 2010, 04:51 AM

Growing up I also tended to wonder if, the act of creation itself, didn't imply a "want" or a "need"- therefore showing that God was not "complete" / had "needs" / "wants" or was otherwise less than perfect.

El bien mas preciado / es la libertad
hay que defenderla / con fe y valor.
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