God's Supreme Ambition?

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- Homer
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #30 - December 16, 2010, 07:48 AM

See this is why I think polytheism makes so much more sense than monotheism.
If there is just one god who can do everything and is all powerful, with nothing that can limit and blah blah so forth, he is pointless on to himself.
Why bother doing anything, if you already know how its going to turn out and everything is just how you will it?
Now, if there are a bunch of gods and universes in competition with one another, well, then at least the gods have some purpose to themselves. They have challenges and stuff. Mistakes to correct, and things to learn and become better.

Go Polytheism

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #31 - December 16, 2010, 09:03 AM

Quote from: Hassan on December 15, 2010, 09:38 PM
After judgment and then either an eternity in Hell or an eternity in Heaven - what then?

Is that it?

Was that the sum total of God's great plan in doing all this?

The God who can do anything? The God who creates such marvels?

That some creatures he created will have fun without end in Paradise or suffer pain without end in Hell.

Even a child could come up with a better "Divine Plan" !!

I once saw a cat run over by a car. The car sped off and left it to die. I remember watching this poor cat's body writhe in pain. It was obviously going to die, and I looked around for something heavy to hit it with so I could end its suffering. Unfortunately I didn't find anything, and the cat took about 30 seconds to die. Although I didn't have the ability to end this cat's suffering I still had the compassion to want to.

God on the other hand was the driver of the car. He was pissed off with the cat for breaking his rules, in particular "Thou shalt not shit on my garden" and "Thou certainly should not cross the road afterwards". But actually that is being too kind to god. The god of the bible/quran would have used his special magic to make the cat writhe in agony for eternity not just 30 seconds.

Does there come no point at which god says "That'll do cat, that'll do" and let it die?

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #32 - December 16, 2010, 09:40 AM

and then they lived happy ever after.... this phrase that is attached to all fairy tales is also part of the religious worldview with the exception that in the religious worldview there is also the part "and then they suffered ever after".... This speaks a lot not only for the origins of religious dogma, meaning that it is completely man made, but it speaks a lot for the time when this dogma was compiled, a time with limited intellectual and material goods... Because of these limitations we see absurd descriptions of heaven that could have been written to have a strong appeal only for a poor/unfed and dull...

I think this fact (living happily ever after) shows also a weird situation , where humans who are supposed to worship god and appease him for their lifetime are then rewarded for eternity by that god... This shows somehow the duality of worship... While in real life humans worship and praise god for their entire life, God praises and rewards them for eternity... This story shows the highly human egocentric mind that compiled this story and made the God it was supposed to worship, their "servant" in the afterlife...

Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 14, 2011, 05:00 AM
Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #33 - December 16, 2010, 04:40 PM

Here's an amusing video that highlights the absurdity of God's supreme ambition. A Muslim friend of mine (now former Muslim) almost pissed his pants watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urlTBBKTO68
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #34 - December 18, 2010, 10:34 AM

Quote from: z10 on December 15, 2010, 09:45 PM
God is playing hide and seek with himself forever.

The mystery of the unknown is what keeps Islam intact. The 'unknown' here being a deficiency on the part of Islam turned into that which keeps you guessing and marveled.

Its not a "mystic opulence" of God here. Its the inability of Allah to keep up with the ever-evolving human intellect.
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #35 - December 18, 2010, 10:43 AM

Quote from: TheCuteRebel on December 16, 2010, 02:43 AM
Boredom makes people do stupid things , with God being alone no partners and shit it can be lonely so he decided to get a little creative and write down everything that will happen , to add a bit of spice he created the devil so things can get a little exciting its like Gods version of reality tv . I can just imagine him sitting down eating chocolates watching us do all kinds of shit , the tv show is bit like big brother you get a list of commandments and consequences for your actions and the day of judgement is the eviction . Then we just chill out in heaven having immortal sex (which is awesome of course) with the 72 virgins . So I think God wanted entertainment , you know we can all get inscure everyonce in a while . Some of us result to make up , plastic surgery .....God just wants you to praise him all day everyday !!!!!!!!! Personally I think he should have got that mirror in snow white where it just praises you it would be a lot more easier than having mankind !

Troll.
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #36 - December 18, 2010, 10:53 AM

Quote from: Homer on December 16, 2010, 07:48 AM
See this is why I think polytheism makes so much more sense than monotheism.
If there is just one god who can do everything and is all powerful, with nothing that can limit and blah blah so forth, he is pointless on to himself.
Why bother doing anything, if you already know how its going to turn out and everything is just how you will it?
Now, if there are a bunch of gods and universes in competition with one another, well, then at least the gods have some purpose to themselves. They have challenges and stuff. Mistakes to correct, and things to learn and become better.

Go Polytheism

So which of the Gods/Goddesses will be the ultimate victor ? Which one(or several) will triumph over the rest?

What causes them to be in a state of competition in the first place?

What puts them into the state of "existence" and "action" ?

What are the factors that are outside them, to which they must compete and overcome?

Who set the challenge?
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #37 - December 18, 2010, 10:55 AM

Quote from: Hassan on December 15, 2010, 10:42 PM
Perfect!

(lol @ Hadrat Hassan )

LOL, I love it when Zebedee uses these titles, "Hadrat", "Mawlana", "Sayedina"... etc.

...
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #38 - December 18, 2010, 05:13 PM

Ok, keep in mind I'm only making this shit up as I go along.....

"Which one(or several) will triumph over the rest? "
We dont know, they dont know. Maybe it will never end.

"What causes them to be in a state of competition in the first place?"
Its kind of like Highlander.
And because they each have an individual will and personality, they will naturally find conflict. Some wish to come back together into the plane. Others wish to destroy forces they think corrupt the plane, before coming back together. Some wish to rule over all. And some wish to create an entirely new situation, which will destroy the cycle forever. Others wish to create a new heaven.
[Please await more revelations]

"What puts them into the state of "existence" and "action" ?"
They did it themselves. They had always existed, but outside of time, so they were as one eternal static plane made up of several forces that also always existed. Till they came apart, creating the multiverse.

"What are the factors that are outside them, to which they must compete and overcome?"
This is unknown to them. It is logically impossible to know everything, as one can never know if it knows everything, because of unknown unknowns.

"Who set the challenge?"
Nobody. Its like life where we make up purpose as we go along. Since they all have individual wills, they may all have different conceptions of purpose.

and only 473 angels can fit on a matchhead.

Man, creating religions is easy.

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #39 - December 18, 2010, 07:02 PM

Quote
Man, creating religions is easy.

Winner!

We should create one per month. Ex-muslims contest.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #40 - December 19, 2010, 09:44 AM

you will never loose if you bet on the credulity of man.

If I actually sat down and really went to town putting that all together I bet you I'd have at least a handful of believers within a month.
If I did it in South Asia a few thousand ( no offense, but c'mon..ya know what I mean).
If I did it a thousand years ago (and managed to get my followers to kill the ballz out of everyone who disagreed with me), my birthday would probably be a respected holiday right now, and anyone who mocked belief in the crazy shit I'm making up would be labeled an intolerant bigot at best, beheaded by my followers at worst.

And I'm not joking....Keep in mind a hundred years ago some goof in upstate new york ran around telling everyone he found golden plates that only he could see that told him that Adam and Eve were from Missouri, and today there are 14 million Mormons.

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
- Winna
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #41 - December 19, 2010, 09:56 AM

Forgive me, Homer, for I have sinned... Taking the name of Homer in vain is worth me spending an eternity in the Pit of Gods' Pets Arena. (this was added later by a council of Believers, but it fits with the rest so it's holy)
However, I repent for my sins, so I shall be forgiven. I know that, because Homer said it Himself, and he also said no other will say anything else, even a God, they would be banished then. So I'm forgiven and this is Homer's Word.
(well the council doesn't count, it's not a contradiction, because they were true Homerians. Or something.)

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #42 - December 19, 2010, 09:58 AM

Quote
(this was added later by a council of Believers, but it fits with the rest so it's holy)

LOL, good call

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #43 - December 19, 2010, 11:42 AM

Quote from: z10 on December 15, 2010, 11:41 PM
That is very strange. I don't think I've come across any depictions of Muhamamad that do not have his face covered wth a ball of light.
I agree that this is of artistic merit, after all, we have plenty of interpretations of dante's journey into hell.

I'm still digging to find them on the net, but I have seen 2 versions of the Iranian movie telling the Koran's version of the birth of Jesus. In one version you can see all the faces, in the other, faces of prophets are covered with the ball of light you mentioned.

What country are you in ? Isn't this more common to the Shi'a, or am I mistaken ?

El bien mas preciado / es la libertad
hay que defenderla / con fe y valor.
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #44 - December 24, 2010, 09:30 AM

Quote from: Winna on December 18, 2010, 07:02 PM

Winner!

We should create one per month. Ex-muslims contest.

This actually got me thinking.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to actually write a 'holy book'

Think of it. HP Lovecraft's Necronomicon. He made the book up. He said a million times he made it up, yet still people believed that it was a real book...many people believed (and still believe) that it is a real book of ancient magic. In the 80s a guy took it a step further and actually wrote a necronomicon based on Lovecraft's work, and published it (complete with fake historical research and introduction). It was like a literary version of those Blair Witch type movies.
There are people...right now...who think this is real. And that's with everyone involved saying they made it up.

For a good example of how easy this could really be done, I'd invite you to check it out online.
Its a fun read, and compare it to 'real' holy texts.
I'm going to get crackin on one of my own

http://alleeshadowtradition.com/pdf/necronomicon2.pdf

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #45 - December 24, 2010, 01:17 PM

http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

El bien mas preciado / es la libertad
hay que defenderla / con fe y valor.
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #46 - January 05, 2011, 05:49 PM

Whenever I discuss Islam with well educated and deep-thinking Muslims, they invariably take a very esoteric, philosophical and metaphysical view of the Qur'an and Islam.

They have to - because to take it at face value is pretty awful and they are too intelligent for that.

So they pour all their energies into finding meanings that would make it more acceptable to their own intellect.

Never once do they stop to think, maybe the great divine plan (as presented in the Qur'an) really is as crass, cruel and unambitious at it seems.

Our discussions usually end up with them giving long-winded explanations of how this or that means something other than what it seems to mean - but is higher and more majestic than we can possibly comprehend.

How dare I suggest that God just created billions of creatures to worship and praise him and so that some will spend eternity having sex and stuffing themselves, while some will spend eternity in the most obscene torture and utter misery - on the basis of a dubious test.

Nah... that can't be right. Yes, yes... it may SEEM like that to the unintelligent - but it means something far more majestic and wonderful - beyond all our imaginations.
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #47 - January 05, 2011, 06:04 PM

Quote from: Hassan on January 05, 2011, 05:49 PM
Whenever I discuss Islam with well educated and deep-thinking Muslims, they invariably take a very esoteric, philosophical and metaphysical view of the Qur'an and Islam.

They have to - because the to take it at face value is pretty awful and they are too intelligent for that.

So they pour all their energies into finding meanings that would make it more acceptable to their own intellect.

Never once do they stop to think, maybe the great divine plan (as presented in the Qur'an) really is as crass, cruel and unambitious at it seems.

Our discussions usually end up with them giving long-winded explanations of how this or that means something other than what it seems to mean - but is higher and more majestic than we can possibly comprehend.

How dare I suggest that God just created billions of creatures to worship and praise him and so that some will spend eternity having sex and stuffing themselves, while some will spend eternity in the most obscene torture and utter misery - on the basis of a dubious test.

Nah... that can't be right. Yes, yes... it may SEEM like that to the unintelligent - but it means something far more majestic and wonderful - beyond all our imaginations.

Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 14, 2011, 05:00 AM
Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #48 - January 05, 2011, 06:28 PM

I decided not to blame God because he doesn't exist . I seriously don't think that anybody is that retarded , especially the God of the Quran ! And if he does exist I'll be still disbelieving in that mofo even when he is torturing my infidel ass

"its fashionable to be an ex Muslim these days"
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #49 - January 05, 2011, 08:23 PM

What a pondlife you are Hassan. From the vantage point of God what could be more fun than running a cosmic brothel? Live porn, nothing beats it. Like the time you walked in on me doing naughty things to your boyfriend.

On point: If you’re itching to know how things pan out when you cross over to the other side, let me direct your attention to the elegant fiction of David Eagleman’s. I commend his short story collection by the title of "Sum: Tales From The Afterlives". It’s a fun exploration of what happens when you become an angel. By training a neuroscientist, the man’s imagination really takes wings and kisses the seventh heaven. Each short story is roughly two pages long so you can finish it in one sitting. Good stuff. For a sample of his work consult the link below where Stephen Fry reads from the book. Let me know whatcha think:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/audio/2010/apr/04/stephen-fry-david-eagleman
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #50 - January 05, 2011, 08:43 PM

Quote
Mount A Bison:

elegant fiction of David Eagleman’s. I commend his short story collection by the title of "Sum: Tales From The Afterlives"...

well let people watch Tube before reading the book on that Bison.. here

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRShjWStKOY

David is a brilliant guy.. here is a better one.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EREriwV71mA

Hell America Produces lots of very young guys like that.[/b..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #51 - January 05, 2011, 09:06 PM

@Yez

So you're a fan too are you my kindred? Wanna get together for a lovefest in my bedroom? I enjoyed his neurological take on criminal law. Like Hemingway before him there is a Biblical simplicity to his prose style. No literary pyrotechnics. No flummery. Just plain good 'ol story telling. I don't say that because merely in a former life he and I were hot gay lovers. 'Tis the truth. So how glad was I to find him in conversation with the incomparably entertaining Will Self. Very different is his style. One needs a dictionary by his side:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQjHxLWy9yE
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #52 - January 05, 2011, 09:07 PM

Quote from: Mount A Bison on January 05, 2011, 08:23 PM
What a pondlife you are Hassan. From the vantage point of God what could be more fun than running a cosmic brothel? Live porn, nothing beats it. Like the time you walked in on me doing naughty things to your boyfriend.

God is such a fucking pervert!

He just watches us all day, jacking off (which, I suppose is where all the new galaxies come from). Only he also jacks off to violence, pain and suffering. He tells us not to do things because he knows we'll want to do them even more -- its reverse psychology. Sick bastard.

Yes, you can tell I am slightly angrier than usual at god today.
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Re: God's Supreme Ambition?
Reply #53 - January 06, 2011, 07:15 PM

Quote from: Eliphaz on January 05, 2011, 09:07 PM
God is such a fucking pervert!

What is wrong with perverts?
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