The "true" Bible

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #30 - December 21, 2010, 10:35 PM

Quote from: Bardhi_i_zi on December 21, 2010, 10:28 PM
Lynna you sound to me as a Jehovah Witness... Are you a witness of Jehovah?

I thought every one knew that already. Yes I said I'm a Jevovah's Witness in my introduction.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #31 - December 21, 2010, 10:36 PM

Quote from: Lynna on December 21, 2010, 10:33 PM
Exactly a point I have been trying to make.

Every one keeps posting to me saying all kinds of things about this burning hell place. I was raised in a some what Christian home and was told since childhood that there was such plce as a burning hell.

God told Adam:

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Okay. If Adam was going to burn in hell why did God tell him he was going to return to the dust?
And compare it the condition that Adam was before Adam was made? Like duh. Nothing to nothing. Seems real simple to me.

^^^That's the Old Testament, the New Testament clearly makes references to Hell.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #32 - December 21, 2010, 10:37 PM

Quote from: Lynna on December 21, 2010, 10:33 PM
Every one keeps posting to me saying all kinds of things about this burning hell place. I was raised in a some what Christian home and was told since childhood that there was such plce as a burning hell.

How do you interprete those verses I posted?

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #33 - December 21, 2010, 10:37 PM

Quote from: Kenan on December 21, 2010, 10:24 PM

What makes a person a true, authentic christian?

How much time do you have?

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #34 - December 21, 2010, 10:39 PM

Lynna, i guess u'r introduction kinda skipped my radar... sorry... but it was not hard for me to figure it out

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #35 - December 21, 2010, 10:43 PM

Yeah, I picked up on it too with your thoughts on Christmas.

Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #36 - December 21, 2010, 10:44 PM

Quote from: Heyjustlooking on December 21, 2010, 10:36 PM
^^^That's the Old Testament, the New Testament clearly makes references to Hell.

So, I keep hearing.

I've got awhile pick one of those places out and let's look at. My first guess, without knowing which one you're going to pick, is going to be that it will turn out to be symbolic for total distruction.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #37 - December 21, 2010, 10:46 PM

Which ones are symbolic and which ones are not and how do you infer this distinction between certain verses?

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #38 - December 21, 2010, 10:47 PM

Quote from: Bardhi_i_zi on December 21, 2010, 10:39 PM
Lynna, i guess u'r introduction kinda skipped my radar... sorry... but it was not hard for me to figure it out

That's okay sometimes I have trouble figuring out if some one is an atheist or deist or agnostic or just wondering.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #39 - December 21, 2010, 10:49 PM

Quote from: Kenan on December 21, 2010, 10:24 PM
What makes a person a true, authentic christian?

The ability to quote-mine the few decent lines in the Bible, and ignore all the awkward and questionable shit when its brought up, while promoting it as the bestest book ever.

Thats the impression I get.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #40 - December 21, 2010, 10:52 PM

^^^Same here.

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #41 - December 21, 2010, 10:53 PM

Quote from: Heyjustlooking on December 21, 2010, 10:46 PM
Which ones are symbolic and which ones are not and how can you make the distinction between the two types?

It is kind of hard to just randomly talk about. Do you have one in mind? If it is in the Book of Revalation it is a real good chance it is symbolic because that book is is signs.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #42 - December 21, 2010, 10:57 PM

Quote from: Lynna on December 21, 2010, 10:37 PM
How much time do you have?

lol

A single concise sentence should suffice. Something along the lines of "I understand and implement the authentic message of the bible/christianity" perhaps. And obviously stating what the message actually is.

Quote from: Ishina on December 21, 2010, 10:49 PM
The ability to quote-mine the few decent lines in the Bible, and ignore all the awkward and questionable shit when its brought up, while promoting it as the bestest book ever.

Thats the impression I get.

Can't blame you, really.
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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #43 - December 21, 2010, 10:58 PM

Quote from: Lynna on December 21, 2010, 10:53 PM
It is kind of hard to just randomly talk about. Do you have one in mind? If it is in the Book of Revalation it is a real good chance it is symbolic because that book is is signs.

I posted these earlier and you ignored them:

The Parable of the Tares:

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, “Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.”
He answered and said unto them, “He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
~ Matthew 13:36-43

The Parable of Drawing in the Net:

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
~ Matthew 13:47-50

Jesus's ministry in Capernaum:

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
~ Luke 9:43-48

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #44 - December 21, 2010, 11:02 PM

Matthew 22:13
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

John 5:28-29
The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Lynna, just a couple I had in mind.

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #45 - December 21, 2010, 11:03 PM

Quote from: Ishina on December 21, 2010, 10:58 PM
I posted these earlier and you ignored them:

The Parable of the Tares:

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, “Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.”
He answered and said unto them, “He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
~ Matthew 13:36-43

The Parable of Drawing in the Net:

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
~ Matthew 13:47-50

Jesus's ministry in Capernaum:

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
~ Luke 9:43-48

Beat me to it.

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #46 - December 21, 2010, 11:05 PM

Quote from: pierced_beauty on December 21, 2010, 10:43 PM
Yeah, I picked up on it too with your thoughts on Christmas.

If it makes any difference Pierced Beauty I don't believe in a burning hell and I believe the God of the Bible created no such place so you are in no danger of go there to burn. Adam did far worse then you could ever dream of doing and God only said he would turn back into dust.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #47 - December 21, 2010, 11:11 PM

^^^ Eating the forbidden fruit?

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #48 - December 21, 2010, 11:22 PM

... before he had any clue what the concept of forbidden even meant, or any idea of consequence and punishment.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #49 - December 21, 2010, 11:32 PM

Quote from: Lynna on December 21, 2010, 11:05 PM
Adam did far worse then you could ever dream of doing and God only said he would turn back into dust.

Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. This means that until they ate it they had no knowledge of good and evil, and therefore no way to judge their own future action in advance.

Punishing someone who lacks that capacity to judge is unethical, and is seen as unethical by most legal systems these days. Apparently it does not bother your god though. Why is this?

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #50 - December 22, 2010, 12:01 AM

Quote from: Heyjustlooking on December 21, 2010, 11:02 PM
Matthew 22:13
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

John 5:28-29
The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Lynna, just a couple I had in mind.

John 5:25 “Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is. 28 Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. 30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Not one I thought you would pick, but okay.

This is a very interesting situation. A resurrection of damnation or of judgment. What perhaps would be the better world here?

Either way it is talking about a yet future time when everyone in the memorial tombs after having come out heard Jesus' voice and practiced either good or bad things and were then judged.

Is that to you an ageeable brief statement about the verse?

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #51 - December 22, 2010, 12:13 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on December 21, 2010, 11:32 PM
Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. This means that until they ate it they had no knowledge of good and evil, and therefore no way to judge their own future action in advance.

Punishing someone who lacks that capacity to judge is unethical, and is seen as unethical by most legal systems these days. Apparently it does not bother your god though. Why is this?

I watched that video. I thought it was a very strange idea, in fact one I had never thought of it before. I have always thought of Adam as created totally perfect and with all ablility to think. He had been instructed by God in what he needed to know. The "knowledge of good and evil" was in the sense that God had the right to deside for creation what is good and what is evil. That is not a right that God as Creator gave to mankind so that made Adam a thief and unthankful and the one who brought death to all mankind.

So it had never come into my mind that God had unjustly judged Adam because he had not. After having reviewed the account in the light of the possibility that Adam or Eve my not have of had all the information they needed, I found no reason to change my mind about the case.

Do you have any additional information to support the idea that Adam and Eve were not created perfect? Of course something more more appealing to reason then the video.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #52 - December 22, 2010, 12:18 AM

Quote from: Lynna on December 22, 2010, 12:13 AM
I watched that video. I thought it was a very strange idea, in fact one I had never thought of it before. I have always thought of Adam as created totally perfect and with all ablility to think. He had been instructed by God in what he needed to know. The "knowledge of good and evil" was in the sense that God had the right to deside for creation what is good and what is evil. That is not a right that God as Creator gave to mankind so that made Adam a thief and unthankful and the one who brought death to all mankind.

What video? I never mentioned a video. I'm also not talking about how you used to think about Adam. I'm just talking about what is in the Old Testament. It is pointless giving instructions to someone who lacks the capacity to effectively process them.

The OT doesn't say anything about Adam being granted rights. It says the fruit imparts knowledge.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #53 - December 22, 2010, 12:28 AM

Where does it say that?

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #54 - December 22, 2010, 12:32 AM

I have a better idea. You show me where it says something else.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #55 - December 22, 2010, 12:33 AM

I guess I'm being ignored. Oh well.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #56 - December 22, 2010, 12:37 AM

Those who ask inconvenient questions get ignored. Faith is thereby preserved unsullied.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #57 - December 22, 2010, 12:43 AM

That is because being told what to do is the highest form of faith one can do, and that's all they ever needed. Beware the one who questions authority or does otherwise, they will be cast out. - Said an old Jewish Rabbi one day on a knee and that is how Adam and Eve were created.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #58 - December 22, 2010, 12:56 AM

So should I like post the Bible to you?
I was reading it over.

But, okay just by posting the creation account, I'm not sure if either of us could make our point.

I don't have my reference Bible with so all I can do is cut and paste and ask the question. But you know me I'll get back to it sooner or later.

Genesis 1:26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.” 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”

The point that I want to point out is mankind is made in God image. How so? That would be the big question because God is a spirit and people are physical. Well, how we are made in God's image is we can think and we have freewill. That is what I could (and will if you want me to remember Jeptha's daughter/sacrific) if I had my reference Bible. So, Adam wasn't lacking he had a good start in life.

Adam even had a chance to admit he was wrong and perhaps he could have been forgiven but he didn't take it. He blamed God for his owe mistake.

Genesis 3: 12 And the man went on to say: “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me [fruit] from the tree and so I ate.”
(bold text by me)

I'm going to late for work got to go.

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Re: The "true" Bible
Reply #59 - December 22, 2010, 06:41 AM

Quote from: Kenan on December 21, 2010, 10:57 PM
lol

A single concise sentence should suffice. Something along the lines of "I understand and implement the authentic message of the bible/christianity" perhaps. And obviously stating what the message actually is.

Can't blame you, really.

Sorry, I didn't get back to you earlier. It is very overwhelming for me when alot of messages are all coming at me at once.

No a single concise sentence would not suffice. The word Christian means Christ like or some one who tries to follow the example of Jesus Christ. To tell you why I think I do that would take more then one single concise sentence. For example it is my understanding that Jesus did not teach a burning hell. Here I am trying to do that and it is taking more then one sentence. It is my understanding that Jesus knew God created Adam intelligent and with freewill because it was Jesus that God was talking to when he said. "Let us make...". However it is taking more then one sentence to do that as well. Then even if I should have success in talking the talk. I would still have to have some success in walking the walk. Am I able to even most of the time display the fruits of the spirit as mentioned at Galatians 5:22,23 because Jesus was able to all the time. Then there is the identifying mark of Jesus disciples that they have love among themselves. Oh and preaching the good news of the Kingdom of God. Is there enough evidence to convicted me in a court of law of doing that. Do I need to go on because there is more? Do you really want to know what other things I take under consideration when I think about what it takes to be a Christian because it involves my life and my thoughts and my goals and how I act and what I want for others and myself and the world.

If at first you succeed...try something harder.

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