A late introduction

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- solroger
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A late introduction
OP - December 29, 2010, 03:29 PM

I probably should have done this when I first joined a few days ago. But no. Instead I posted in a few topics that were of interest to me.

I am a Canadian. Born into a Muslim family. I live in Toronto. I am thirty three old. I am of Indo/Pak decent.

I never had doubts about Islam. Never. Until I read Sam Harris's End of Faith which didn't really have that much impact on me but it prompted me to read his next book 'Letter to a Christian Nation'. The little he says about Islam in there made me buy and read 'god if not Great' by Hitchens. Then The God Delusion. Jared Diamond. And it has snowballed since then.

Hamza Yusuf has had a great influence on me. Ironically I read 'End of Faith' because he said he is reading it with his theology class at Zaytuna College.

I don't want to jump the gun here. I have been having doubts only the past month of so. I don't know what will come out of it. I don't know if I will go back or continue. All I know is there is a doubt.

PS. my alias here means Solayman (my first name) and Roger is the name of my cat

I did wudu before entering this website.
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #1 - December 29, 2010, 03:31 PM

Nice to meet you mate, welcome

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- GodIsNotGreat
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #2 - December 29, 2010, 04:01 PM

Welcome to the forum

19:46 <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

Quote from: yeezevee
well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra
- Elifaz
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #3 - December 29, 2010, 04:54 PM

Nice to finally see your intro post solroger! Hmm, I really need to read Hitch's books when I get time...
- shadow
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #4 - December 29, 2010, 05:53 PM

As a newbie, I'd like to welcome you as well, as you've welcomed me in my thread.
The issue of religion and belief is a difficult one, but i think it's great that you're questioning and researching. Perhaps, after new years, we can exchange ideas about your doubts, it will help me reaffirm my thoughts as well (or question them perhaps, who knows?).

There always is the 'what if' when it comes to religion, isn't there? what IF islam really is the true religion, will I make a mistake if I renounce it, will I be doomed to hellfire?

For me, it went as far as to question my own humanitarian/liberal belief system. What IF mankind's 'fitrat' (thats how we say it in turkish-think it's 'fitra' or something like that in arabic?) really is as 'god' reveals in the quran? What if we really do need to chastise the non-believers, beat our wives? What if there really is a hierarchy among genders which we shouldn't question? What if god really does know best?

Tough, tough questions.. take your time, work in slow strides and go where your mind takes you. I for instance have renounced islam, but I still cannot buy into absolute materialism and positivism. That's my struggle, to make sense of the world and everything around me, to find a single formula that will help me decipher the codes of the universe. Religion makes it easy for you-it gives you the full package, just believe and everything makes sense

Being a rational human is hard I tell you.
- solroger
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #5 - December 29, 2010, 06:27 PM

I should say that I am nowhere near a perfect devout Muslim. I have made mistakes all my life. I have taken interest money. I have even dated and had sex with girls before. But I was prayed. And fasted. And struggled with my nafs. I also eat only halal. Even cheese is very iffy today for me.

I never had the desire to eat McDonald's burgers or for illicit relations. This is not the reason for my doubts. I am certain about that. My doubts are about the revelation and the religion itself.

I did wudu before entering this website.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #6 - December 29, 2010, 08:30 PM

Welcome solroger
- IGiveUp
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #7 - December 29, 2010, 08:30 PM

Quote from: shadow on December 29, 2010, 05:53 PM
As a newbie, I'd like to welcome you as well, as you've welcomed me in my thread.
The issue of religion and belief is a difficult one, but i think it's great that you're questioning and researching. Perhaps, after new years, we can exchange ideas about your doubts, it will help me reaffirm my thoughts as well (or question them perhaps, who knows?).

There always is the 'what if' when it comes to religion, isn't there? what IF islam really is the true religion, will I make a mistake if I renounce it, will I be doomed to hellfire?

For me, it went as far as to question my own humanitarian/liberal belief system. What IF mankind's 'fitrat' (thats how we say it in turkish-think it's 'fitra' or something like that in arabic?) really is as 'god' reveals in the quran? What if we really do need to chastise the non-believers, beat our wives? What if there really is a hierarchy among genders which we shouldn't question? What if god really does know best?

Tough, tough questions.. take your time, work in slow strides and go where your mind takes you. I for instance have renounced islam, but I still cannot buy into absolute materialism and positivism. That's my struggle, to make sense of the world and everything around me, to find a single formula that will help me decipher the codes of the universe. Religion makes it easy for you-it gives you the full package, just believe and everything makes sense

Being a rational human is hard I tell you.

I really can identify with you and soroger. The more one delves into Islamic rulings, it seems that humanitarian and liberal attitudes are of the devil. And being a total bastard is what God wants you to be, how twisted is that?

A belated welcome to you both.
- solroger
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #8 - December 30, 2010, 02:47 PM

I might as well post some of my thoughts here instead of opening a new thread. I was just having a conversation with my 28 year old brother about the Bani Quraidha. All my life all I heard was they committed treason and they were killed. So that implied that only the few people who committed treason were killed. I had no idea it the whole tribe including young boys and also a woman.

So I told him that and asked him what he thought. His reply: "for us to sit here and criticize the Prophet's decision means that we know more than him."

And that was it. End of conversation.

I did wudu before entering this website.
- ChinaDoll
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #9 - December 30, 2010, 03:01 PM

I find it soooooo hysterical that hamza yusuf reccomended you read that book ahahahahaahhaah !!!!!!!!! sweeeet . I think he intended to read it with the class so he could interpret very line of it and make your faith stronger .loool I used to love hamza yusuf when I started practicing my sister had a crush on him and wanted to marry him at one point . Welcome to the forum !

"its fashionable to be an ex Muslim these days"
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #10 - December 30, 2010, 03:01 PM

solroger, Mohammad is Islam's biggest achilles heel.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- solroger
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #11 - December 30, 2010, 03:09 PM

Quote from: TheCuteRebel on December 30, 2010, 03:01 PM
I find it soooooo hysterical that hamza yusuf reccomended you read that book ahahahahaahhaah !!!!!!!!! sweeeet . I think he intended to read it with the class so he could interpret very line of it and make your faith stronger .loool I used to love hamza yusuf when I started practicing my sister had a crush on him and wanted to marry him at one point . Welcome to the forum !

I think most girls and most women have a crush on him. He is white. Good looking. He converted. He speaks perfect Arabic and English. They have their cake and they can eat it too. Heck most guys do too. I know I did

I did wudu before entering this website.
- GodIsNotGreat
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #12 - December 30, 2010, 03:11 PM

What are you allowed to criticise in Islam?

The Qur'an requires you to be able to understand arabic, in addition to that you need 20 years of rigorous study to be able to appreciate and understand its beauty.

The Prophet Mohammed was the perfect man. If you think otherwise, you're wrong.

19:46 <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

Quote from: yeezevee
well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra
- ChinaDoll
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #13 - December 30, 2010, 03:14 PM

I don't know what is was about white convert guys that I found soo hot ......I just don't know !!!!! I had a huge crush on a white convert now he is married , I heard 75% of converts leave Islam and I hope he is one of them because he had such a great personality before he started getting too religious grrrr !!!!!!!

"its fashionable to be an ex Muslim these days"
- olweasel
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #14 - December 30, 2010, 03:21 PM

Quote from: solroger on December 30, 2010, 02:47 PM
His reply: "for us to sit here and criticize the Prophet's decision means that we know more than him."

Which you do.

The moral sense that individual Muslims carry, is often superior to Islam's morals.

It's hard to explain.

"Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
- Robert Louis Stevenson
- solroger
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #15 - December 31, 2010, 02:48 AM

Okay so today I thought I had built enough inner strength to order a burger from Wendy's (a fast food burger joint in North America). I drove up the drive through annnnnnnddd......I chickened out at the last minute and just ordered fries. Sigh.

I did wudu before entering this website.
- Dr_Zhivago
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #16 - December 31, 2010, 09:25 AM

Welcome Solroger, I have been trying to muster up the courage to get a burger at a non-halal joint for a while now, still has not happened though, maybe next year 2011
- Bardhi_i_zi
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #17 - December 31, 2010, 10:05 AM

a quick question... When you talk about a non halal burger, are you talking about Beef that was not processed in a halal way or pork?

welcome solroger

Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 14, 2011, 05:00 AM
Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #18 - December 31, 2010, 10:08 AM

for me it is beef not processed the halal way and being scared they use the same utensils for pork and beef, but this is something I will overcome, I am determined
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #19 - December 31, 2010, 10:11 AM

Hi solroger!

Quote from: solroger on December 30, 2010, 02:47 PM
So I told him that and asked him what he thought. His reply: "for us to sit here and criticize the Prophet's decision means that we know more than him."

What it actually means is that your morals are better than bronze age inspired morals of somebody who lived in the 7th century.
- Bardhi_i_zi
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #20 - December 31, 2010, 10:15 AM

I find this highly interesting, since in Kosovo Halal meat (beef processed in halal way) is not a topic. I mean in all of the capital city where i come from, there is only 1 butcher that claims that he has halal meat.... The rest don't even bother, its not even a topic.... So basically you are safe from Pork in Kosovo, but beef is 99.99% not halal...

I love these regional varieties of islam, and how in some regions some other stuff gets highlighted and in others different aspects get highlighted..

Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 14, 2011, 05:00 AM
Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!
- Kenan
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #21 - December 31, 2010, 10:16 AM

Quote from: Dr_Zhivago on December 31, 2010, 10:08 AM
for me it is beef not processed the halal way and being scared they use the same utensils for pork and beef, but this is something I will overcome, I am determined

That is precisely the biggest issue I have with religion in such form - it's essentially psychopathology; Islam was essentially abusing you.

"That kind of Allah (one which grants wishes from prayers or who gets angry) is an illusion -- actually it is what we call taghut, false idolatry. To imagine such a God (beyond your childhood) can be potentially psychologically damaging."
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #22 - December 31, 2010, 12:22 PM

Quote from: solroger on December 31, 2010, 02:48 AM
Okay so today I thought I had built enough inner strength to order a burger from Wendy's (a fast food burger joint in North America). I drove up the drive through annnnnnnddd......I chickened out at the last minute and just ordered fries. Sigh.

Don't bother with fast food being your first "harram". Save that for some authentic sausage ! If you have a Mexican, Cuban or Puerto Rican neighborhood in Toronto- then I suggest Chorizo. If You have a Polish neighborhood- then Kielbasa is an easy choice.

El bien mas preciado / es la libertad
hay que defenderla / con fe y valor.
- muddy
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #23 - December 31, 2010, 01:50 PM

Hey

People are getting rude here. How come nobody gave him a parrot yet?

Anyways, here is your parrot:

Enjoy your stay here..

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Islam's Last Stand (page)
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and many others...
- solroger
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #24 - December 31, 2010, 02:49 PM

Haha, pork is out far fetched right now. First I want to dive into beef not processed the Islamic way. Still not happening. I have thought about the sausages since they look so delicious everytime I pass them by. I will need to muster up a lot of mental energy for that.

And what's a parrot?

I did wudu before entering this website.
- Heyjustlooking
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #25 - December 31, 2010, 03:21 PM

Welcome mate. Glad to know you keep an open and sceptical mind about things especially religion and theology.

The more I learnt about Islam, the more my doubts grew.

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
- solroger
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #26 - January 03, 2011, 05:05 PM

I had another question that I haven't really thought about much: Where did Allah come from? Who made him? So he was up there one day and he said to himself, I desire to be known so he created man. Then Adam bit the Apple for that he was summoned to Earth. One by one souls were put in the bellies of pregnant women and here we are today.

I did wudu before entering this website.
- Saif Rahman
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #27 - January 03, 2011, 10:09 PM

Muslim answer
Quote
Where did Allah come from? Quran 5:101 O you who believe! Do not put questions about things which if declared to you may trouble you.

Who made him? See above

My answer
Quote
Where did Allah come from? Mo's hallucinations

Who made him? Mo's cerebral cortex

My Book
My Blog
- GodIsNotGreat
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #28 - January 03, 2011, 10:36 PM

There's a hadith that says that when you question where Allah comes from, it's really the shaytaan putting thoughts into your head.

19:46 <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

Quote from: yeezevee
well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra
- Elifaz
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Re: A late introduction
Reply #29 - January 03, 2011, 10:53 PM

Quote from: GodIsNotGreat on January 03, 2011, 10:36 PM
There's a hadith that says that when you question where Allah comes from, it's really the shaytaan putting thoughts into your head.

Yes, I remember when I was in KSA and used to go to this house in another compound for Islamic circles, and one of the students asked "where did Allah come from". The teacher kind of tripped over his words, but luckily another kid jumped in (he was one of those smart arses whose dad was a scholar or something) and related that hadith. It's a fundamental question.

Most Muslims think surah Ikhlas answers that question "he has no beginning nor end", he is "beyond time and space"... well if he lives on a throne above the seventh heaven eating grapes handed to him from flying pigs then he sure as hell aint beyond space.
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