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 Topic: Sunniforum bloodbath.

 (Read 36791 times)
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  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #120 - January 04, 2011, 01:17 PM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on January 04, 2011, 01:10 PM
    Or, we could make an entirely independent website for such common ground dialogue.

    Most of the people with so called "weak imaan" will never come there. And also most of the people with "strong imaan" wouldn't either. In fact hardly anyone would come there, and efforts will be wasted.
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #121 - January 04, 2011, 01:17 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 04, 2011, 01:13 PM
    They even appear to delete their own threads where they ask for the atheist threads to be deleted.  

    In other words they try to make it appear that no censorship is taking place.  Orwell would be well proud.


    Yes. And Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.  yes
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #122 - January 04, 2011, 01:22 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 04, 2011, 01:11 PM
    Isn't that what the one-on-one forum is for?

    Frankly even then I would be surprised if any believing Muslim dared take on someone like Hassan or IsLame or Rationaliser because they would get (politely and respectfully) caned in the discussion.

    That rarely works.
    As soon as somebody joins these forums, they are generally required by everyone to introduce themselves.
    As soon as they introduce themselves as Muslims, they get flooded with "why do you think this? why do you think that?" questions that lead to arguments that lead to the Muslim's frustration, that leads to harsh jokes from the regulars and insults from the Muslim. And bans. And more trolls being created, sometimes.

    Just browse old threads/posts and you will see examples of what I am talking about.

    I am not saying that Muslims should be treated like fragile beings, what I am saying is that IF you want to debate with somebody in here "we" (ambiguous collective fallacy ^_^) have to make sure that they do not feel disrespected just for stepping in here.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #123 - January 04, 2011, 01:25 PM
    Guys, at-least I was lasted there for one whole day. And was successfully able to create 4 meaningful threads of discussion. Just wanted to mention that. Smiley
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #124 - January 04, 2011, 01:28 PM
    Quote from: muddy on January 04, 2011, 01:17 PM
    Most of the people with so called "weak imaan" will never come there. And also most of the people with "strong imaan" wouldn't either. In fact hardly anyone would come there, and efforts will be wasted.

    There is no "effort" in waiting for people to come talk to you.
    Even if one Muslim per year wants to come here and understands your point of view, why chase him away automatically? O_o

    As far as I understand, ex-Muslims are quite hated by Muslims on average.
    Managing to make even just a few percentage of Muslims accept that they are entitled to their own beliefs (or lack thereof) should be a good service to the ex-Muslims cause.

    And with "accepting" I do not mean that ex-Muslims should try to "deconvert" Muslims, otherwise you'll just come off as arrogant and get the opposite result :S
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #125 - January 04, 2011, 01:30 PM
    Excellent work Muddy, been reading what you've written. But seriously these Muslims are not reading your answers, they're constantly repeating their shitty points again and again. They way they attack you is just stupid to say the least.

    IMO save your valuable time Sir Muddy Smiley
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #126 - January 04, 2011, 01:55 PM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on January 04, 2011, 01:28 PM
    There is no "effort" in waiting for people to come talk to you.
    Even if one Muslim per year wants to come here and understands your point of view, why chase him away automatically? O_o

    As far as I understand, ex-Muslims are quite hated by Muslims on average.
    Managing to make even just a few percentage of Muslims accept that they are entitled to their own beliefs (or lack thereof) should be a good service to the ex-Muslims cause.

    And with "accepting" I do not mean that ex-Muslims should try to "deconvert" Muslims, otherwise you'll just come off as arrogant and get the opposite result :S

    Good point. But there is pretty much no way for them to accept the fact that someone can possibly be an Ex-muslim. Same as the fact that someone can possibly be gay.
    LGBT movement for last 40 years involved confronting people back with stones (in the west, east and specially muslims still need that revolution) Otherwise gays were target of violence and many get murdered brutally.

    abzm: You are welcome. I think I am fighting the battle for myself, and off course all the people that share same ideas.
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #127 - January 04, 2011, 01:57 PM
    The vast and I mean vast majority if the LBGT movement never used violence.
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #128 - January 04, 2011, 02:03 PM
    Quote from: muddy on January 04, 2011, 01:25 PM
    Guys, at-least I was lasted there for one whole day. And was successfully able to create 4 meaningful threads of discussion. Just wanted to mention that. Smiley


    Did they delete your threads? I can't find them now, and I didn't have time to read them yesterday.  Cry
    "He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
    ~ Douglas Adams
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #129 - January 04, 2011, 02:16 PM
    Yes, they deleted all of them. I should have made a copy of it. Anyways, someone tried to create a thread refuting me, and I ignored the whole thread. That's why it is still sticking there:

    http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?67002-Refuting-fella-the-atheist&p=557225
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #130 - January 04, 2011, 02:23 PM
    Shame they censored you from there, as you no longer even have the right to reply to their posts about you no
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  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #131 - January 04, 2011, 02:25 PM
    Muddy, ask them why it us only diseases that can go into remission that are " cured" , why aren't legs and arms spontaneously regenerated? Or if religious belief is all it takes why is Allah rewarding Shirk?
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #132 - January 04, 2011, 02:28 PM
    Damn.

    And I need to seriously stop lurking there. Too depressing.
    "He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
    ~ Douglas Adams
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #133 - January 04, 2011, 02:29 PM
    We can create a thread, "Islam is the religion of violence" here, and invite them all here. As long as people here aren't concerned about safety.

    I think I need to chill and have a margarita. Tongue
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #134 - January 04, 2011, 02:31 PM
    Quote from: deusvult on January 04, 2011, 02:25 PM
    Muddy, ask them why it us only diseases that can go into remission that are " cured" , why aren't legs and arms spontaneously regenerated? Or if religious belief is all it takes why is Allah rewarding Shirk?


    I already know the answer to that.

    'god doesn't have to prove anything to anyone'
    or
    'god gives men the ability to create artificial ones'
    or
    'if god DID do that, you wouldn't need faith'
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #135 - January 04, 2011, 02:47 PM
    All of those violate the premise of the original argument that Allah heals people. I say Allah because along with a belief of am Islamic god comes a set of assumptions that are used to predict the world.  If you want to say that religious belief in general effects people's health then sure, but that is an affirmation that belief in any god or any supernatural thing is beneficial, NOT a belief in Allah.  So which is it? If a belief in Allah cures then that is not what we would expect and can be counted AGAINST the belief in an Islamic god.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #136 - January 04, 2011, 02:50 PM
    This is what I posted in the jail khana:

    Looks like muslim admins of this site do have a sense of humor. Anyways, sorry for calling your prophet a pedo. But you do need to understand that being an Ex-Muslim is a REAL FACT!
    And you also do need to understand that by accusing me of not ever been muslim hurts my feeling really bad. I can show you pictures of me doing hajj, but it is pointless when you didn't ban people who talk about killing apostates in the "My own blood left islam" thread!

    DO YOU FRIGGIN KNOW HOW MORALLY BANKRUPT YOU ARE??? If you think even for a tiny bit that it is ok to kill non muslims or anybody just because they don't believe in your belief, I think you are the one that needs rehabilitation.

    YOU ARE A HUMAN, ACT LIKE A HUMAN, AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT OTHER HUMAN BEINGS WHETHER THEY BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD OR NOT, THEY DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO BREATH IN THIS WORLD. YOU DO NOT OWN IT.

    ============================

    And the moderator's response is this:

    Quote
    And you also do need to understand that by accusing me of not ever been muslim hurts my feeling really bad.

    Why?

    Quote
    I can show you pictures of me doing hajj

    What do you think that would prove?

    Quote
    YOU ARE A HUMAN, ACT LIKE A HUMAN, AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT OTHER HUMAN BEINGS WHETHER THEY BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD OR NOT, THEY DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO BREATH IN THIS WORLD. YOU DO NOT OWN IT.

    I don't know if it's a "right." But they've been given a little while of respite until the time of reckoning approaches. Instead of making good use of those few precious breaths, the wretched fools persist in using those very breaths in disobedience of the One who causes each atom to inhale and exhale.
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #137 - January 04, 2011, 03:01 PM
    Yeah but muddy, I can understand your need to vent, and its true that even reasoned, respectful, rational debate like Hassan engaged in gets deleted there too. But you know, it just seems futile, they don't care.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #138 - January 04, 2011, 03:09 PM
    .
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #139 - January 04, 2011, 03:15 PM
    Quote from: muddy on January 04, 2011, 02:50 PM
    YOU ARE A HUMAN, ACT LIKE A HUMAN, AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT OTHER HUMAN BEINGS WHETHER THEY BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD OR NOT, THEY DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO BREATH IN THIS WORLD. YOU DO NOT OWN IT.

    And the moderator's response is this:

    I don't know if it's a "right." But they've been given a little while of respite until the time of reckoning approaches. Instead of making good use of those few precious breaths, the wretched fools persist in using those very breaths in disobedience of the One who causes each atom to inhale and exhale.

    Wait, after sticking you in jail, is the moderator now attempting to justify why somebody should suffocate you to death instead?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #140 - January 04, 2011, 03:19 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 04, 2011, 03:01 PM
    Yeah but muddy, I can understand your need to vent, and its true that even reasoned, respectful, rational debate like Hassan engaged in gets deleted there too. But you know, it just seems futile, they don't care.


    No worries, I keep being persistent.


    Quote from: Mount A Bison on January 04, 2011, 03:09 PM
    Trouble is, I've never met anyone who was encouraged to join the Devil's party through debating a murtad.

    Well, I have successfully planted seed of doubt among quiet a few people so far. Many have even changed to the level where they think that a good part of quran had been corrupted.


    Quote from: IsLame on January 04, 2011, 03:15 PM
    Wait, after sticking you in jail, is the moderator now attempting to justify why somebody should suffocate you to death instead?

    Yup
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #141 - January 04, 2011, 03:22 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on January 04, 2011, 03:09 PM
    Adversarial jousting matches are not about the exchange of error for truth, on this or any other question. They are a bloodsport out of which comes only sound and fury signifying nothing. Men are too much invested in their convictions to yield them so freely. To be wrong is not to suffer a factual deficit merely, it is not a clash of one dead man's ideas against another, but a clash of egos in a forest-shaking combat for supremacy.

    Couldn't agree more.
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #142 - January 04, 2011, 03:25 PM
    Quote from: muddy on January 04, 2011, 03:19 PM
    Yup

    They've stuck you in the piggy playpen so they can prick & prod you like a trapped animal and then when you rise to it, they will be happy to proclaim you justified their claims. 
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #143 - January 04, 2011, 03:26 PM
    Being an "ex" anything and engaging your former co-religionists is something of an art. I'm not even close to mastering it, but I sent some links to a friend who's done it.

    Two things he told me stuck to my mind. The first is you have to ask yourself "What am I trying to do here ?" Are you trying to really talk with the person or people, or are you trying to talk to them ? Are you really venting emotions ? You have to be honest with yourself. The second- you have to be very selective in who, where and what to talk about. A dialogue requires two parties to respect each other and to be patient with each other.

    One party cannot walk in and impose a dialogue- that's what is better known as an argument.

    I also have noticed with some ex-Christians that they expect you to (in one way or another) "attack" them or the church in some way. I think my friend's gentle approach is good at dealing with the "us vs. them" mentality. How to make it work in an Islamic context, I am not sure.

    El bien mas preciado / es la libertad
    hay que defenderla / con fe y valor.
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #144 - January 04, 2011, 03:30 PM
    @Muddy

    Have you really managed to crack open their skull and rewire their synapses? Intriguing. Send the pretty ankles my way darling. I wanna show them something special.

    @Kenan

    Are you male or female? Being in the dark about so vital a question is thwarting my flirting skill.
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #145 - January 04, 2011, 03:39 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on January 04, 2011, 03:09 PM
    Trouble is, I've never met anyone who was encouraged to join the Devil's party through debating a murtad


    I can say from personal and anecdotal evidence that the planting of seeds of doubt have often born fruit over time through reading something in opposition to what I believe fervently.

    I know an (undercover) ex Muslim lady who became a murtad after a couple of years of wrestling with her conscience, who couldn't shake from her head an essay and article she read by Ibn Warraq on the internet.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #146 - January 04, 2011, 03:41 PM
    Quote from: deusvult on January 04, 2011, 01:57 PM
    The vast and I mean vast majority if the LBGT movement never used violence.

    Yeah, in fact I got puzzled by that example.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #147 - January 04, 2011, 03:47 PM
    Quote from: Juan Karl on January 04, 2011, 03:26 PM
    I also have noticed with some ex-Christians that they expect you to (in one way or another) "attack" them or the church in some way. I think my friend's gentle approach is good at dealing with the "us vs. them" mentality. How to make it work in an Islamic context, I am not sure.

    Yeah, a lot of people try hard to feel "attacked" so they get more comfortable with their own beliefs because they now have an excuse to think that the other person's beliefs (or lack thereof) belong to oppressive evil people.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #148 - January 04, 2011, 03:49 PM
    .
  • Re: Sunniforum bloodbath.
     Reply #149 - January 04, 2011, 03:52 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 04, 2011, 03:39 PM
    I know an (undercover) ex Muslim lady who became a murtad after a couple of years of wrestling with her conscience, who couldn't shake from her head an essay and article she read by Ibn Warraq on the internet.

    I dont suppose you know which essay that was, I think we should stick a link to it in the 'awkward questions to ask muslims' thread, as it obviously worked!
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