Allah's Throne

1« Previous thread | Next thread »
- Ali Alawi
- ex shiite,ex sunni, ex muslim. But still gay and bitchy
- Ex-Muslim
- We r who we r
- offline
Allah's Throne
OP - January 04, 2011, 10:50 PM

One of the most rediculous things for me in the qur'an is the imaginary big throne erected up there somewhere. It is not just the fact that a God sitting on a throne being carried by seven angel is just too cliche for me, but the fact that God is in a specific place is too blasphemous for God.
I dunno about cosmology that much, but time and space were simltaniously created when the Big Bang went Baaang. So when u say that God is in a certain place, that means that God is dwelling between his creations. ur sayng that God is actually part of his creartion. Which is wrong, cuz these r not the qualities of the Allah living in our minds or in the qur'an. Hence, with this simple contradiction, the qur'an has been tottally debunked . Right ?

<AliIsAli>: in ur sharia law, am i to be killed???
<ghutlu>: Yes sure sure u should 4 firstly Being Ex muslim
<ghutlu>: for leaving ISLAM
<AliIsAli>: would u kill me if u saw me?
<ghutlu>: yes surely
<AliIsAli>: :(
<ghutlu>: by the way gay is just a mental problem
- z10
- Pub Regular
- Imago Dei
- offline
Re: Allah's Throne
Reply #1 - January 04, 2011, 11:04 PM

There is ofcourse, apart from the literal interpretation of a throne, a far deeper, mythical character to what is meant by the Throne of God. Ibn Arabi is a sufi that spoke at length about his visions of the throne of god, detailing the pillars of fire that held it aloft, the depth of darkness within the concavity of the throne, the ineffable peace felt within that region of darkness that is the place of the Beautiful itself and of course of a magnificent, divine bird that forever circles and loves the throne, a bird that doubles as the archetype of Gabriel, the angel of revelation and knowledge, the bringer of god's Word.
Now this vision doesn't have to have any "objective" reality, rather it is a creative vision, an experience undertaken through an awakening of the imaginal function of the human mind and what other esoteric traditions would call the "opening of the third eye". This faculty cannot be either confirmed or denied by you or me and so we must hold our silence, this is a matter of direct experience alone. One has to be, as Ibn Arabi would put it, alone with the Alone to know the truth of this matter.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
- RIBS
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Allah's Throne
Reply #2 - January 05, 2011, 05:30 AM

Good point Ali. What is even more rediculos is that when Mohamed described Juhanam. He thought that a distance between it's 7 doors measured by "walking 70 years", is so big beyond human imagination--well maybe for that time. Now with our understanding of the universe (although limited but its enough to grasp the size of walking 70 years) know that walking a billion years will not get us close to the next major star in our galaxy, nevermind the 400 billion galaxies out there!

So relatively speaking, the Juhanam Mohamed was scaring his followers with was a tiny dot in the universe! Not a big deal.

ETA: corrected some typos.

...
- Ali Alawi
- ex shiite,ex sunni, ex muslim. But still gay and bitchy
- Ex-Muslim
- We r who we r
- offline
Re: Allah's Throne
Reply #3 - January 05, 2011, 10:12 AM

Quote from: z10 on January 04, 2011, 11:04 PM
There is ofcourse, apart from the literal interpretation of a throne, a far deeper, mythical character to what is meant by the Throne of God. Ibn Arabi is a sufi that spoke at length about his visions of the throne of god, detailing the pillars of fire that held it aloft, the depth of darkness within the concavity of the throne, the ineffable peace felt within that region of darkness that is the place of the Beautiful itself and of course of a magnificent, divine bird that forever circles and loves the throne, a bird that doubles as the archetype of Gabriel, the angel of revelation and knowledge, the bringer of god's Word.
Now this vision doesn't have to have any "objective" reality, rather it is a creative vision, an experience undertaken through an awakening of the imaginal function of the human mind and what other esoteric traditions would call the "opening of the third eye". This faculty cannot be either confirmed or denied by you or me and so we must hold our silence, this is a matter of direct experience alone. One has to be, as Ibn Arabi would put it, alone with the Alone to know the truth of this matter.

Well u said it. Mythology. Folklore.
There r people who claim to have been abducted by aliens and witnessed their wonders. But we don't believe them now, do we? We say that they have epilipsy or hillucinations. Why is God supposed to be a different case ?
And after all, when u say that God is in a specific place, in a 'location', and that there is some kinda of phenoex hovering around him, then ur basically saying that God is a creature. He is somewhere.
it is like big fat queen Elizebith is sitting on her throne just across the pond in UK, and thereafter u go on talking about how sacred she is that she is not art of this vile creation . She is outside 'a place'. After all, thats was Islam all about: reinnovating the idea of God. Allah is not a Jesus who once walked Juruseleam. He is higher and too narssictic to be part of his creation.

<AliIsAli>: in ur sharia law, am i to be killed???
<ghutlu>: Yes sure sure u should 4 firstly Being Ex muslim
<ghutlu>: for leaving ISLAM
<AliIsAli>: would u kill me if u saw me?
<ghutlu>: yes surely
<AliIsAli>: :(
<ghutlu>: by the way gay is just a mental problem
- z10
- Pub Regular
- Imago Dei
- offline
Re: Allah's Throne
Reply #4 - January 05, 2011, 10:33 AM

Quote from: Ali Alawi on January 05, 2011, 10:12 AM
Well u said it. Mythology. Folklore.
There r people who claim to have been abducted by aliens and witnessed their wonders. But we don't believe them now, do we? We say that they have epilipsy or hillucinations. Why is God supposed to be a different case ?

You're right, god is definately not a different case. However, in the same way that one cannot confirm the existence of god without an experience of god, one cannot deny it either.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
- Ali Alawi
- ex shiite,ex sunni, ex muslim. But still gay and bitchy
- Ex-Muslim
- We r who we r
- offline
Re: Allah's Throne
Reply #5 - January 05, 2011, 10:48 AM

Ok let's take it the way Richard Dawkins once said :
If I told u that thre is an ipod circling the sun, in an accurate position that it shall not melt or go freezing (dunno if that happens in the vaccum of space ) , can u deny this theisis ?
NO. cuz the ipod is too small to be detected by our hubble or any other observation decks. and bcuz maybe UFOs has the ability to create an iPod ultra touch screen.
But do u actually believe in an iPod hovering above our head?
I don't think so (if u were then )
u can't deny the existence of something that doesn't exist. it's just silly

<AliIsAli>: in ur sharia law, am i to be killed???
<ghutlu>: Yes sure sure u should 4 firstly Being Ex muslim
<ghutlu>: for leaving ISLAM
<AliIsAli>: would u kill me if u saw me?
<ghutlu>: yes surely
<AliIsAli>: :(
<ghutlu>: by the way gay is just a mental problem
- ChinaDoll
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Allah's Throne
Reply #6 - January 05, 2011, 12:42 PM

I used to believe that he had a place but said it wasn't like ours for example evidences in the Quran I think it says in surah ash shoora that there is none like him . So if there are attributes mentioned in the Quran or sunnah that are also attributed to human beings salafis would hold the opinion that e.g Allahs face isn't like our face , just as Allah's hearing isn't like our hearing as he hears all .

Thats why I loved salafiyah alot I thought it was more logical in comparison to the other sects and had the most evidence ...............now that im atheist I couldnt give a rats ass about it seems soo stupid now lol

"its fashionable to be an ex Muslim these days"
- deusvult
- O......O
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Allah's Throne
Reply #7 - January 05, 2011, 01:57 PM

Quote from: z10 on January 05, 2011, 10:33 AM
You're right, god is definately not a different case. However, in the same way that one cannot confirm the existence of god without an experience of god, one cannot deny it either.

This wasn't where the theistic Gods were originally though. Originally the God's created earthquakes, commanded ellipsis, brought plague, healed the wounded and sick, and brought victory to people, and chastised them in defeat. Then it was revealed that other factors were more prevalent in these events and a divine cause and effect became a terrestrial cause and effect. Though probably not an accurate statement but true nether the less, God represents what we do not know, and in what we do not know we put what we wish to be true.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
Just kidding, here are some true heros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
- Ishina
- Militant Atheist
- Ex-Muslim
- No Fate But What We Make
- offline
Re: Allah's Throne
Reply #8 - January 05, 2011, 02:13 PM

Quote from: z10 on January 05, 2011, 10:33 AM
However, in the same way that one cannot confirm the existence of god without an experience of god, one cannot deny it either.

I deny the existence of Allah.

See? Easy.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
- Jinn and Tonic
- My Place is the Placeless, the Trace of the Traceless
- Ex-Muslim
- aka عزرایل
- offline
Re: Allah's Throne
Reply #9 - January 05, 2011, 03:02 PM

Quote from: Ali Alawi on January 04, 2011, 10:50 PM
One of the most rediculous things for me in the qur'an is the imaginary big throne erected up there somewhere. It is not just the fact that a God sitting on a throne being carried by seven angel is just too cliche for me, but the fact that God is in a specific place is too blasphemous for God.
I dunno about cosmology that much, but time and space were simltaniously created when the Big Bang went Baaang. So when u say that God is in a certain place, that means that God is dwelling between his creations. ur sayng that God is actually part of his creartion. Which is wrong, cuz these r not the qualities of the Allah living in our minds or in the qur'an. Hence, with this simple contradiction, the qur'an has been tottally debunked . Right ?

Quote from: Ali Alawi on January 04, 2011, 10:50 PM
One of the most rediculous things for me in the qur'an is the imaginary big throne erected up there somewhere. It is not just the fact that a God sitting on a throne being carried by seven angel is just too cliche for me, but the fact that God is in a specific place is too blasphemous for God.
I dunno about cosmology that much, but time and space were simltaniously created when the Big Bang went Baaang. So when u say that God is in a certain place, that means that God is dwelling between his creations. ur sayng that God is actually part of his creartion. Which is wrong, cuz these r not the qualities of the Allah living in our minds or in the qur'an. Hence, with this simple contradiction, the qur'an has been tottally debunked . Right ?

smoke some salvia 20x. There's a good chance you may be able
to see that throne personally!

When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
Helen Keller
- Ali Alawi
- ex shiite,ex sunni, ex muslim. But still gay and bitchy
- Ex-Muslim
- We r who we r
- offline
Re: Allah's Throne
Reply #10 - January 05, 2011, 04:07 PM

I think ur smoking it Jinn and Tonic cuz, well, pple who smole salvia tend to have a shaky hand and cannot control their finger tips. Thus the double quoting

<AliIsAli>: in ur sharia law, am i to be killed???
<ghutlu>: Yes sure sure u should 4 firstly Being Ex muslim
<ghutlu>: for leaving ISLAM
<AliIsAli>: would u kill me if u saw me?
<ghutlu>: yes surely
<AliIsAli>: :(
<ghutlu>: by the way gay is just a mental problem
- AB71313
- Member
- offline
Re: Allah's Throne
Reply #11 - January 06, 2011, 02:57 AM

Can anyone give the verse numbers of anything to do with Allah's throne from the quran?

I have read some bukhari hadiths about the sun prostrating itself under allahs throne (ring of fire..lol) which was a laugh yet need something from the quran.
1« Previous thread | Next thread »