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Theme Changer

 Topic: A Heartfelt Plea...

 (Read 12266 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • A Heartfelt Plea...
     OP - January 20, 2011, 10:12 PM

    What started as a throw away remark on another thread grew until I realised it was too long to justify posting as a reply, but it's written now, so here are my ramblings all on their lonesome...

    There is a protection apportioned to Islam in the UK by virtue of the fact that the majority of Muslims belong to ethnic minorities and many live in somewhat isolated communities (to varying extents), with what are perceived to be foreign cultural behaviours and values. Inevitably, this leads to a blurring of the issues of religion, race, morality, culture, etc. in the minds of many non-Muslims. This is disastrous. For starters, it allows groups such as the BNP to use "Muslim" as a euphemism for "darkie", "foreigner" and "immigrant". But, possibly worse still, in fear of being labelling racist, culturally narrow-minded or bigoted I think many reasonably-minded 'outsiders' (those who are not and have never been Muslims) tend to shy away from voicing opposition to or disagreement with pro-Islamic, or Islam-sympathetic, sentiments. On the internal level too, many are too often willing to subconsciously see issues relating to Islam through culturally relativistic blinkers, and thus not only avoid vocalising opposition, but refuse to think of it in the first place.

    For these reasons, the dissenting voices of Ex-Muslims are incredibly powerful and could be hugely influential in shaping public debate. I understand that many of you are uncomfortable with the term "Ex-Muslim" as a self-descriptor, and I understand why, but as an 'outsider' I have to tell you that it really does hit something home. It unavoidably breaks the connections between the Islamic faith and race, culture, etc. in the minds of non-Muslims. Moreover, the realisation that a Muslim is only one thought away from being an ex-Muslim provides a clear distinction in peoples minds between Islam, the philosophy/ideology/political system, and Muslims, the people. These distinctions leave the religion laid bare as a viable target for criticism, without the fear of accusations of racism, narrow-mindedness, bullying, etc.

    Please do not underestimate the role many of you on this site could play in, above all, helping to develop and protect secular society. You all, by your very existence and by the intellectual positions you have fought to adopt, can act as extremely potent consciousness raisers for non-Muslims, so as to strip Islam of the protective 'victim' cloak it all too often hides behind. This site and its members contain an incredible wealth of knowledge, passion and potential and I urge you all to do what you can to help that potential be realised.
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #1 - January 20, 2011, 10:55 PM

     Afro Well written!

    Quote
    You all, by your very existence and by the intellectual positions you have fought to adopt, can act as extremely potent consciousness raisers for non-Muslims, so as to strip Islam of the protective 'victim' cloak it all too often hides behind. This site and its members contain an incredible wealth of knowledge, passion and potential and I urge you all to do what you can to help that potential be realised.


    The punch line!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #2 - January 20, 2011, 11:08 PM

    Good post. Afro
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #3 - January 21, 2011, 12:25 AM

    Great post. Afro  thnkyu

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #4 - January 21, 2011, 01:08 AM

    fantastic!!!!

    "its fashionable to be an ex Muslim these days"
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #5 - January 21, 2011, 01:09 AM

    Thanks, chris for bringing this up. Those of us who volunteer for the CEMB in various capacities, from mods, admins of this forum, to people like Hassan and others who are actually involved with the organization, are doing this for these very reasons. It would be nice if more Ex-Muslims volunteered to do more activism, either online anonymously, and/or in meatspace. I know this has been an ongoing concern for many of us who see a lot of need for this kind of community support and activism.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #6 - January 21, 2011, 10:04 PM

    Brilliant post, Chris - thanks!
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #7 - January 21, 2011, 10:26 PM

    Give me some guidance people!  Other than writing on the forum, making more people aware of COEM and donating to COEM, how else can I be an activist?  Obviously I have the problem of being a closet apostate.

    I feel I should be helping more.

    .
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #8 - January 21, 2011, 10:28 PM

    Fascinating thoughts Chrissy. I don't say this because merely in a former life you and I were lovers. To make this joint a genuine repository of heretical knowledge, I think we (by which I mean the uncommonly useless mods) could do a better job of prominently displaying threads which have a good educational value as distinct from the ebb and flow of current affairs. In such a novelty driven medium where the old is discarded faster than a used condom, the message board fails to showcase the bestest thoughts on the humbuggery of Islam. It ceases to be the online library of Alexandria and becomes the congregation house of spotty-faced little chits whom you can't even fuck without being jailed. Where's the fun in that?

    To cite one instance among many, why is the long running and brilliant thread about the silliness of the Hadith whose name momentarily escapes me not a sticky?  As matters presently stand, it is consigned to neglected obscurity. Now, I don't say that Allat or Cheetah should sticky all the timeless, matchless, peerless threads of the Bison. Only that we could better organise the joint so that lurkers might suck from our fountain of wisdom. I drop the idea and press on to more engaging themes ...
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #9 - January 21, 2011, 10:32 PM

    Give me some guidance people!  Other than writing on the forum, making more people aware of COEM and donating to COEM, how else can I be an activist?  Obviously I have the problem of being a closet apostate.

    I feel I should be helping more.


    Well this is the whole problem, Shahid. Of course I totally understand why you and so many others can't 'come out'.

    But that is exactly what we need. We need people who are able to take a public stand and work and take part openly. We need members to attend meetings and contribute to organising and planning demos, talks, and all sorts of activism.

  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #10 - January 21, 2011, 10:36 PM

    As you know I've attended a lot of the COEM meetings, but I really really can't 'come out'.  I just can't...  Cry

    I think we should all arrange a private meeting (like I have every fortnight at work) where we all sit around a desk and discuss tactics and strategies to promote the COEM movement.

    .
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #11 - January 21, 2011, 10:43 PM

    As you know I've attended a lot of the COEM meetings, but I really really can't 'come out'.  I just can't...  Cry

    I think we should all arrange a private meeting (like I have every fortnight at work) where we all sit around a desk and discuss tactics and strategies to promote the COEM movement.


    I know you have attended a lot of meetings and I really applaude you for that Shahid and we would love you on the management committee - but for that you would need to be open and public and then take on responsibilities.

    There is the London Meet-up that is pretty much what you are saying above - they will be meeting up next Thursday if you want to come.
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #12 - January 22, 2011, 04:15 AM

    Hello folks...

    I've just seen an urgent appeal from Maryam that funds are needed to keep the CEMB going (http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=14350.0). The CEMB must not be allowed to fail!! The service offered to ex-Muslims across the globe is critical, and the future role of the CEMB in the secularist movement could be pivotal. For those unable to offer "hands on" assistance, be it due to location, concerns about safety, time restraints or whatever, please help in another way by giving as much money as you can afford to, to this organisation that can give us, that already gives you and many others, so much back in return. Please see the above thread for details of how to setup regular payments, and if fund transfer seems problematic, ask about donating via an alternative route (e.g. paypal).

    In the short term, I have a proposal for you: I'm running a half marathon in early March on behalf of the British Humanist Association (BHA) and I've finally got around to setting up my fund raising page (http://www.everyclick.com/run4bha). All donations from CEMBers made either to the page, or to me in person if you encounter me at the meet-up next week, I'll match and donate that same about to the CEMB, up to £100 total. So if you sponsor me for £20, that £20 will go to the BHA and I'll donate another £20 to the CEMB. Simples!

    The BHA are a wonderful charity and share many of the same goals as the CEMB...so by donating just £20 of your money, you'll be giving £40 to the secularist movement. This will be great for BHA, much needed for the CEMB and a big motivator for me to start properly training for 13 miles of blister and cramp induced pain. I'll be very disappointed if, between you all, you don't get to the £100 mark!

    Please please please make sure you write either "Ex-muslim" or "CEMB" in the 'Sponsoring Comment' field and post a comment below to say you've donated, so I know how much to donate back to the CEMB. Now get sponsoring! dance
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #13 - January 27, 2011, 09:57 PM

    I have a heartfelt plea to MAB to please change back to original avatar as I liked that one better.  Smiley  I've just returned from a trip to Egypt and I swear that avatar's double was seated at the next table to me, it blew my hair right back and I was so mesmerised that when I got back here I had to check the likeness. Alas the avatar was no more.  :(

    Donated £10   Afro


    Edit:   Ooops sorry forgot to add comment in sponsoring field.   


    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #14 - January 28, 2011, 08:35 AM

    Great post Chris it is nice to get a homeland perspective.  Afro
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #15 - January 28, 2011, 11:18 AM

    Good work Maya! I presume you mean you donated directly to the CEMB, not on everyclick.com, as the donation hasn't appeared yet. If you did try using everyclick, it might be worth checking the payment went through with your bank...or their website might just be running slowly.

    Cheers HO, was great to meet you on Wednesday...so little time, so much to discuss. Next time, next time...Smiley
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #16 - January 28, 2011, 12:40 PM

    I have a heartfelt plea to MAB to please change back to original avatar as I liked that one better.  Smiley  I've just returned from a trip to Egypt and I swear that avatar's double was seated at the next table to me, it blew my hair right back and I was so mesmerised that when I got back here I had to check the likeness. Alas the avatar was no more.  :(   

    So you were thinking of me the whole way through the plane ride were you? Charming. Had you told me before that my avatar excited something below your belt, I would have taken more care to retain it. That's what happens when I get no kisses of appreciation. You don't know what you've got till it's gone. Who said that? So now, where was your hand when I was on your mind?
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #17 - January 28, 2011, 09:43 PM

    Good work Maya! I presume you mean you donated directly to the CEMB, not on everyclick.com, as the donation hasn't appeared yet. If you did try using everyclick, it might be worth checking the payment went through with your bank...or their website might just be running slowly.



    Ah, I donated via PayPal from this address chris  http://ex-muslim.org.uk/indexDonate.html and PayPal email confirmation of the payment.  Hope it reached you ok.  Huh?

    So you were thinking of me the whole way through the plane ride were you? Charming. Had you told me before that my avatar excited something below your belt, I would have taken more care to retain it. That's what happens when I get no kisses of appreciation. You don't know what you've got till it's gone. Who said that? So now, where was your hand when I was on your mind?


    Well I don't know who said that but I know who said "There is a charm about the forbidden that makes it unspeakably desirable."   whistling2

    LOL, but your double wasn't on the plane, he was in the hotel, at the next table at dinner, sipping his brandy with an air of nonchalance.  Smiley  So much like MT in looks, the wild white hair and bushy 'tash, long pointed nose that I really did do a double-take.  wacko  He looks washed out in the current avatar, not like himself at all.  Smiley





    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #18 - January 28, 2011, 11:46 PM

    So you were thinking of me the whole way through the plane ride were you? Charming. Had you told me before that my avatar excited something below your belt, I would have taken more care to retain it. That's what happens when I get no kisses of appreciation. You don't know what you've got till it's gone. Who said that? So now, where was your hand when I was on your mind?


    You always have to hit below the belt don't you? Cheesy Cheesy



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #19 - January 28, 2011, 11:59 PM


       He looks washed out in the current avatar, not like himself at all.  Smiley







    That's how he looks first thing in the morning ,sugarplum! After the nocturnal exertions it would be a superhuman feat to hide the after effects of the overnight frenzy!
    Oh! The havoc these hairy fatimas cause! No catamite is a match for them!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #20 - January 29, 2011, 12:46 AM

    That's how he looks first thing in the morning ,sugarplum! After the nocturnal exertions it would be a superhuman feat to hide the after effects of the overnight frenzy!
    Oh! The havoc these hairy fatimas cause! No catamite is a match for them!

    Steady on rascallion.  I shall delve your head between my thighs and dangle my balls nicely from your chin.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #21 - January 29, 2011, 11:14 AM

    LOL@Hypo

    Everything exciting happens south of the belt. But what would a spotty-faced little chit like you who's never been laid know about that?

    @Islame

    How many times have you been tea bagged? You sound like quite the expert.

    @Maya

    Whenever I see your name the mind journeys back to my vacation in Japan not many years ago where among the tourist spots my guide took me was the terrifically named Mount Maya. Very cute. Makes me chuckle every time. I would revert back to the old Mark Twain, but I'm afraid Three4 has beaten me to it. I would sue her, but I've blown all my filthy lucre on hashish. If I become a rent boy to raise the money, will you pass the word around to all your lonely middle aged friends? I can't promise to be well-hung, but I've got something bigger and better: Unflagging stamina. Once I grip your hairy nipples with my teeth, forget about getting a wink of sleep.
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #22 - January 29, 2011, 11:50 AM


    @Islame

    How many times have you been tea bagged? You sound like quite the expert.

    Quit this cheap talk.  I am ready grab your sagging buns & skewer you with my hot lincolnshire sausage.  Let me know when your ready for desert.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #23 - February 21, 2011, 02:28 PM

    Nice post indeed, Chris Smiley I understand Shahid's comment in terms of practicality.. As much as Maryam is doing a wonderful job running this council, and we can help through donating (how is your marathon sponsorship coming along btw? how much more do you need?) it is difficult to see what individual members can do to help. It is such a concrete yet also individual problem in a way - it is often the family or direct environment that creates the problem, at least here in the West, for people to come out. Conferences/discussions/broadcasts can make the broader public aware of the problem, but my question would be what the gain is of changing the public opinion for people in terms of changing their individual challenging situations? I dare say it is not the public opinion that is the problem, at least not in the West.

    I am trying to contribute in my own way by doing this research - as much as it started off as an academic project, I have started to feel more for the cause and I am starting to understand how strongly the lack of freedom of religion can cast a shadow over someone's life. I do hope that publishing this research once it’s done will raise awareness in the academic sphere and may open debate in these circles but the question remains – what is really gained by raising awareness? Is awareness what we should be targeting?
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #24 - February 22, 2011, 10:31 AM

    What is really gained by raising awareness? Is awareness what we should be targeting?

    Its not the solution, but a single measure to help build the critical mass required to deal with a much bigger problem.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #25 - March 07, 2011, 08:11 AM

    I think you're right.
  • Re: A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #26 - March 07, 2011, 08:51 AM

    great post Chris! i've been meaning to ask what an individual member of this forum, like me, can do to help apart from donating.

    Since I've never been a Muslim, only close to converting at some point, i didn't experience what most of you did but I would still like to help somehow and become more involved...
    i have some ideas but i'd welcome suggestions from you guys Smiley thanks!

    I think a lot of us were brought here by google. Verily google guides whom it wills!

  • A Heartfelt Plea...
     Reply #27 - November 17, 2013, 12:46 PM

    Bringing this back. Thoughts?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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