Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...

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- chris
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Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
OP - January 25, 2011, 02:54 PM

From the thinkhumanism forum:

Remove Institute for Creation Research, Creation Ministries International, and Answers In Genesis articles from Google Scholar - Sign the Petition

http://www.gopetition.com/petition/42229/sign.html#se

I was appalled to see that they were there. If you don't believe me, try "Noah's flood"
- TheRationalizer
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Re: Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
Reply #1 - January 25, 2011, 03:08 PM

I disagree. To paraphrase Carl Sagan "Science works by proof, not by silencing ideas you do not like"

As long as they are not teaching it to children in class rooms I have no objection to it being on Google.

Erroneous beliefs should be eradicated by showing people why they should not believe in them, not by telling them they cannot!

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
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- muddy
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Re: Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
Reply #2 - January 25, 2011, 03:12 PM

Rationalizer: I don't really agree with you here. We are in a very short number compared to the religious nut-jobs. And most of us don't try to oppose the religious idiology for the sake of peace. Religious idiology only take one minute to grab the attention of a religious person, we have to spend a lot of time to brain wash them.

Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
Islam's Last Stand (page)
Islam's Last Stand (group)
and many others...
- TheRationalizer
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Re: Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
Reply #3 - January 25, 2011, 03:17 PM

Copernicus's ideas of a helio centric solar system were suppressed by the church because they didn't like them. It's either okay to suppress ideas you don't like or it isn't - you can't say "It's okay as long as it is ME doing the suppressing".

My friend once put it very well to me. We were discussing a business arrangement between good friends. He wanted it all very formal and legal whereas I was saying "We trust each other, let's just do it". He told me that we weren't setting up the agreement for us two, but so that it would be in place with the new person when one of us decided to sell our interest. It put a different perspective on it.

Instill the idea it is
1: Only acceptable to teach facts to children
2: Ideas should be discredited, not silenced

and you will have rules to live by no matter who is in the majority - i.e. when the next generation sit down together at the table.

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- chris
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Re: Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
Reply #4 - January 25, 2011, 05:11 PM

Hi TheRationalizer,

I saw this post on another forum and my first instinct was similar to yours. Having thought about it over lunch though, I've changed my mind. Noone is suggesting that the organisations that publish creationist pseudo-science should be shut down, or that they not have their results available for searching by google. Similarly, I would not suggest that the BNP, EDL or Respect have their pages banned from google, much as I disagree with them.

What I am opposed to here is the legitamacy given to non-peer reviewed pseudo-scientific journals and papers by their inclusion in google scholar. Google web results are, as far as I am aware, not excluded from the total google directory on the basis of their factual accuracy. Google Scholar sites, however, are subject to a filtering process. To use the above examples again, whilst I would not want the EDL site banned from google, I would protest against their news feed being included in "google news", on the basis that such inclusion lends an undeserved legitamacy.

Do you see why I changed my mind?
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Re: Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
Reply #5 - January 25, 2011, 05:18 PM

I don't know anything about Google scholar. Is it supposed to be peer reviewed articles? If so then they should not be there, if not then why should they not be on google scholar but should be on google itself? Maybe there is something specific to google scholar I am missing?

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- chris
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Re: Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
Reply #6 - January 26, 2011, 12:38 AM

Why should these articles not appear on Google scholar but should on the main google search function? Because the articles in the scholar results pages have been selected to generate what Google presents as a scholary directory. Creationist articles that utilise neither the scientific nor historical scholary methods are therefore being presented as something they are not. If you wish to argue that people should be allowed to see all the information available so that they can make up their own minds (teach the controversy, if you will), that is fine...and I broadly agree. However, just as I would not want school students to be presented with creationist stories in biology class, because it artificially and quite undeservedly elevates the status of a myth to that of a valid scientific theory, I think it unwise for Google to present creationist articles, devoid of meaningful science, as scholary content. Google have an editorial policy on what can be accepted as a Google Scholar article, this petition simply requests that this existing policy is re-evaluated/re-administered.

Rationalizer, I suspect we could go in circles here, with you presenting a case for freedom of information, one that I fully understand, and me saying that Google should be more careful when enacting its acceptance criteria in order to avoid inappropriate implications being made as to the scientific nature of articles. Your concerns are duly noted and did give me pause for thought again, so thank you!
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Re: Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
Reply #7 - January 26, 2011, 12:40 AM

Oh, and no Google do not explicitly state that articles appearing in Google Scholar results pages are sourced from peer reviewed journals.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
Reply #8 - January 26, 2011, 12:47 AM

Signed.
- deusvult
- O......O
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Re: Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
Reply #9 - January 26, 2011, 01:08 AM

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/01/how_to_game_google_scholar.php#commentsArea

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
Just kidding, here are some true heros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
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Re: Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
Reply #10 - January 26, 2011, 01:17 AM

I can never forget how the Church treated Copernicus,Galileo and Darwin just to name a few.

There was a public apology from the Church to Darwin's grandson a few years ago if you can find the reply he gave to the church you will have a good laugh.

Signed!
- TheRationalizer
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Re: Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
Reply #11 - January 26, 2011, 09:54 AM

I have never condoned "teach the controversy" - children should definitely only be taught peer reviewed positions - scientific reality is not determined in the classroom by children.

Maybe what Google needs is a marker specifying that the information being presented appeared in which peer reviewed publications, maybe colour peer reviewed items green and others red. If this service is only for peer reviewed articles only then they should be removed, if it is not only for peer reviewed articles then they should be included.

You can't get rid of individual information based on whether or not you like it, you have to be indiscriminate and specify criteria such as "Must be peer reviewed".

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
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- mighty_cats
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Re: Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
Reply #12 - January 26, 2011, 10:37 AM

Quote from: TheRationalizer on January 26, 2011, 09:54 AM

Maybe what Google needs is a marker specifying that the information being presented appeared in which peer reviewed publications, maybe colour peer reviewed items green and others red.

Google is a failure in that respect (one example among many that will eventually lead to the search engines demise, due to its poor and limited search standards overall)
You should contact wolfram alpha, their search engine is extremely advanced (even in its early stage), Its the type of thing they'd implement.
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Re: Protest to remove "creation science" from Google Scholar...
Reply #13 - January 26, 2011, 11:41 AM

I often use Wolfram Alpha, it even features in my video about Mecca being the golden ratio point on Earth

My point is that information should not be either accepted or suppressed because it is unpopular. If you make this the norm then the information YOU like might become suppressed when popular opinion changes in the future.

If this is a peer-reviewed resource then it's fine to exclude non peer reviewed articles. If not then it is only fair to exclude it based on some other unbiased selection criteria.

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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