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Theme Changer

 Topic: History of God

 (Read 5517 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • History of God
     OP - January 29, 2011, 04:03 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

    This is an extremely well made video showing how Judaism evolved from a polytheistic religion into a monotheistic one. It also shows how the Torah was put together and how it was the wikipedia of holy books.  grin12
    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: History of God
     Reply #1 - January 29, 2011, 04:39 AM
    been waiting for part two and nothing yet.
    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #2 - March 22, 2011, 11:55 PM
    Part 2 is up.  dance

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPfFx9JTQl8
    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: History of God
     Reply #3 - March 23, 2011, 10:29 PM
    What a fantastic series so far. Afro
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #4 - March 23, 2011, 10:42 PM
    i loved all the elaborate specualtions on how Judiasm was originally a Polytheistic religion. Fantastic work.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #5 - March 24, 2011, 01:14 AM
    Is anyone catching the current BBC2 series called Bibles Burried Secrets? If you're not you really should. It's presented by a biblical scholar called Dr Francesca Stavrakopoulou who not only sports a fantastic set of eye brows but she's....wait for it....an atheist(how dare they). The first show was pretty neat but programe 2 was just fantastic. She builds a very good case for the origin of the god of Abraham and posits that this god, called El used to be the father of the other gods in the polytheistic Jewish pantheon and had a......wait for it........a wife. The good Dr uses the Bible to support these remarkable claims. It really is worth a look, it's on BBC i player.http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00zw3fl/Bibles_Buried_Secrets_Did_God_Have_a_Wife/

    Episode 1 takes King David apart and is worth a look too.
    "Happy happy, joy joy!" Stimpson J Cat.
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #6 - March 24, 2011, 01:29 AM
    neale, its a good programme.

    I just wish the BBC would have the fortitude to have an athetist present a programme scrutinising the Quran in the same way.

    Well, I won't hold my breath, but Inshallah, one day.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: History of God
     Reply #7 - March 24, 2011, 02:07 AM
    Quote from: GodIsNotGreat on January 29, 2011, 04:03 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

    This is an extremely well made video showing how Judaism evolved from a polytheistic religion into a monotheistic one. It also shows how the Torah was put together and how it was the wikipedia of holy books.  grin12


    I think it probably is the case that Judaism was born out of Ancient Near Eastern and Mesopotamian pagan traditions. However, his use of bible text to support this thesis is extrememly flimsy.
    The bible saying things like "Yahweh is greater than all other gods" does not necessarily mean that there is an implicit acceptance of the existence of those gods but rather it's akin to a modern day Muslim calling his God better than the God of other religions.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #8 - March 24, 2011, 03:57 AM
    Quote
    I think it probably is the case that Judaism was born out of Ancient Near Eastern and Mesopotamian pagan traditions. However, his use of bible text to support this thesis is extrememly flimsy.
    The bible saying things like "Yahweh is greater than all other gods" does not necessarily mean that there is an implicit acceptance of the existence of those gods but rather it's akin to a modern day Muslim calling his God better than the God of other religions.

    I love z10! Indeed, speculations are NOT facts.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #9 - March 24, 2011, 04:04 AM
    Quote from: billy on March 24, 2011, 01:29 AM
    neale, its a good programme.

    I just wish the BBC would have the fortitude to have an athetist present a programme scrutinising the Quran in the same way.

    Well, I won't hold my breath, but Inshallah, one day.


    you mean scrutinise the bad bits in the Quran, like slavery?

    anyway, afaik, the Bible is no where near being truly scrutinized on TV: ever heard of bashing babies heads on rocks or ripping pregnant women's bellies or "devoting" Jericho to the Lord? not to mention human sacrifice, etc, etc.

    It's a book full of treasures, I don't understand why hollywood wouldn't tap into this source of endless wonder, instead of recycling the same old stories: Moses splitting the sea, etc.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #10 - March 24, 2011, 10:03 AM
    debunker, the link provided by neale is a prime time BBC documentary dissecting the Bible as a man made text. Channel 4 did a similar series of programmes a couple of years ago. Its the norm for the Bible to have that kind of scrutiny. The Quran is ripe for the same treatment.

    However, I don't see it happening on British TV for a while yet, despite the aggressive truth claims that are made for the Quran, because:

    (a) People don't want to die, and any presenter and academic would be subject to death threats and violence

    and


    (b) The shit storm and butt hurt that Muslims would rain on the broadcaster

    and

    (c) The self censoring caused by (a) and (b) and a terror of being called 'Islamophobic' by the usual suspects that inhibits scrutiny of Islam in societies like Britain today.





    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: History of God
     Reply #11 - March 24, 2011, 10:12 AM
    Quote from: billy on March 24, 2011, 10:03 AM
    debunker, the link provided by neale is a prime time BBC documentary dissecting the Bible as a man made text. Channel 4 did a similar series of programmes a couple of years ago. Its the norm for the Bible to have that kind of scrutiny. The Quran is ripe for the same treatment.

    However, I don't see it happening on British TV for a while yet, despite the aggressive truth claims that are made for the Quran, because:

    (a) People don't want to die, and any presenter and academic would be subject to death threats and violence

    and


    (b) The shit storm and butt hurt that Muslims would rain on the broadcaster

    and

    (c) The self censoring caused by (a) and (b) and a terror of being called 'Islamophobic' by the usual suspects that inhibits scrutiny of Islam in societies like Britain today.




    Succinctly put.
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #12 - March 24, 2011, 08:24 PM
    Quote from: billy on March 24, 2011, 10:03 AM
    debunker, the link provided by neale is a prime time BBC documentary dissecting the Bible as a man made text. Channel 4 did a similar series of programmes a couple of years ago. Its the norm for the Bible to have that kind of scrutiny. The Quran is ripe for the same treatment.

    However, I don't see it happening on British TV for a while yet, despite the aggressive truth claims that are made for the Quran, because:

    (a) People don't want to die, and any presenter and academic would be subject to death threats and violence

    and


    (b) The shit storm and butt hurt that Muslims would rain on the broadcaster

    and

    (c) The self censoring caused by (a) and (b) and a terror of being called 'Islamophobic' by the usual suspects that inhibits scrutiny of Islam in societies like Britain today.


    Making the point that Judiasm is an (entirely) man made religion, by default, debunks Islam too.

    In my opinion, if someone could truly prove all the specualtions made by academics regarding the origin of the Abrahamic God, that would be the greatest deconversion method (at least in my case). 
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #13 - March 24, 2011, 08:37 PM

    Why not do both? Muslims say that they have perfected Judaism and Christianity and Islam abrogates them. All that happens is that this 'proves' to them that Islam has the only perfect, absolute word of god text etc etc.

    Go straight to the source code.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: History of God
     Reply #14 - March 24, 2011, 08:41 PM
    Quote
    it's akin to a modern day Muslim calling his God better than the God of other religions.


    I always found this verse interesting in that regard:

    [37:125]
    Do you call on Baal, and abandon the Best of creators?
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #15 - March 24, 2011, 09:01 PM
    Quote from: billy on March 24, 2011, 08:37 PM
    Why not do both? Muslims say that they have perfected Judaism and Christianity and Islam abrogates them. All that happens is that this 'proves' to them that Islam has the only perfect, absolute word of god text etc etc.

    Go straight to the source code.



    disprove the Abrahmic God, and you have disproved Islam.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #16 - March 24, 2011, 09:03 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on March 24, 2011, 08:41 PM
    I always found this verse interesting in that regard:

    [37:125]
    Do you call on Baal, and abandon the Best of creators?


    see the verse before it... Baal was mentioned by prophet Elias... (Elias = Elijah?)
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #17 - March 24, 2011, 09:12 PM
    Quote from: debunker on March 24, 2011, 09:01 PM
    disprove the Abrahmic God, and you have disproved Islam.


    But most Muslims (and I mean probably 99.9% of them) won't care, they'll just say that the Judaic / Christian sources were flawed and that therefore there is no discrediting of Islam at all. It will actually BOOST their belief in the perfection, immutable, word-of-god abrogation of the Quran and the replacement of all earlier mistakes and imperfections with the Quran and Islam. It will deepen their belief that Mohammad was sent down precisely for this reason.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: History of God
     Reply #18 - March 24, 2011, 09:20 PM
    The quran and the Islamic tradition implicitly rely on the truth claims of the prior religions though.  Show that the Israelites ( Muslims) weren't captives in Egypt and Moses didn't lead them out  and down goes the whole thing; show that the Torah/ bible was entirely fabricated and the claim that some of the text was changed falls too.
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #19 - March 24, 2011, 09:33 PM
    Quote from: debunker on March 24, 2011, 09:03 PM
    see the verse before it... Baal was mentioned by prophet Elias... (Elias = Elijah?)


    Yeah yeah, I'm not saying this is an open endorsement of paganism, it's just an interesting verse is all. And I think Elias was someone separate, though I could well be wrong.

    But of course, this was, from a Qur'anic perspective, obviously an inspired statement, hence why it uses the same phrase as 23:14, 'best of creators.'
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #20 - March 24, 2011, 09:34 PM
    Quote from: billy on March 24, 2011, 09:12 PM
    But most Muslims (and I mean probably 99.9% of them) won't care, they'll just say that the Judaic / Christian sources were flawed and that therefore there is no discrediting of Islam at all. It will actually BOOST their belief in the perfection, immutable, word-of-god abrogation of the Quran and the replacement of all earlier mistakes and imperfections with the Quran and Islam. It will deepen their belief that Mohammad was sent down precisely for this reason.


    all you said is true, but still, if one could make the case that the ancient Hebrew prophets were actually polytheistic (even if this proof came from the Bible), then this does debunk Islam.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #21 - March 24, 2011, 09:37 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on March 24, 2011, 09:33 PM
    Yeah yeah, I'm not saying this is an open endorsement of paganism, it's just an interesting verse is all. And I think Elias was someone separate, though I could well be wrong.

    But of course, this was, from a Qur'anic perspective, obviously an inspired statement, hence why it uses the same phrase as 23:14, 'best of creators.'


    it's just a title of the Creator God,he's the best of creators. Btw, one of the main themes of the Quran is that the Creator God is by default, the only God. If one wishes to worship other deities, then they should produce evidence they exist, then the Quran goes on emphasizing the greatness of the Creator God, by pointing to His marvelous creation.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #22 - March 24, 2011, 09:42 PM
    What about producing evidence for a creator god?
    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: History of God
     Reply #23 - March 24, 2011, 09:44 PM
    Isn't it ironic that we who reject religion and theist concepts of God - and indeed the word God itself - spend so much time thinking about God.
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #24 - March 24, 2011, 09:51 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 24, 2011, 09:44 PM
    Isn't it ironic that we who reject religion and theist concepts of God - and indeed the word God itself - spend so much time thinking about God.


    Hey, speak for yourself, god-boy  Tongue
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #25 - March 24, 2011, 09:58 PM
    Yahweh is a god of war? Who would have guessed?!  Wink
    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #26 - March 24, 2011, 09:58 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on March 24, 2011, 09:51 PM
    Hey, speak for yourself, god-boy  Tongue

    lol
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #27 - March 24, 2011, 10:00 PM
    Quote from: debunker on March 24, 2011, 09:37 PM
    it's just a title of the Creator God,he's the best of creators. Btw, one of the main themes of the Quran is that the Creator God is by default, the only God. If one wishes to worship other deities, then they should produce evidence they exist, then the Quran goes on emphasizing the greatness of the Creator God, by pointing to His marvelous creation.


    Yeah, that old chestnut. The world is beautiful therefore what Jesus/Allah/Yahweh said is true. Funny that the Qur'an uses this argument, and, significantly, never mentions diseases, famine, drought, etc, as evidences for His existence. Odd indeed that the All-Wise used an argument that even the simplest of religionists use, particularly when they haven't really thought it through.

    Makes me think that even if the Qur'an were inspired, at least some of it would have to be Muhammad's (or someone else's) words.
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #28 - March 24, 2011, 10:03 PM
    Parasites are beautiful Smiley

    So are raptors and sharks.
  • Re: History of God
     Reply #29 - March 24, 2011, 10:10 PM
    Quote from: GodIsNotGreat on March 24, 2011, 09:42 PM
    What about producing evidence for a creator god?

    Don't hold your breath.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »