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Theme Changer

 Topic: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq

 (Read 7242 times)
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  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #30 - February 01, 2011, 08:41 PM

    I disagree.
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #31 - February 01, 2011, 09:35 PM

    I'm tired of the two main themes of this forum: Muslim bashing and (moderate) Islamic apologia, can you not find a middle ground that has 1) respect for humanity and 2) room for harsh criticism of religion?


    It's not a bash at Muslims, what I said. It really is my opinion. For a lot of people, it is easier, to want to hide behind something when interacting with others, especially these days with fashion mag's and all that jazz, and from the converts I've seen so far, waxing lyrical about the benefits of the Hijab, I honestly think that their self esteem is a major factor. Not all Muslim women think covering themselves is an important issue, and yet so many converts whip them on as soon as.
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #32 - February 01, 2011, 09:45 PM

    It was even if it was really your opinion. And the problem is that such things (as well as stronger "critique", like "stupid, dumb, etc") are said over and over and over here by people who do not understand why Ex-Muslims believed what they believed or why they had converted to Islam.

    I would say that western women that convert are suffering severe self esteem issues. It's so much easier to put a bag over your head and hide, than actually deal with your problems.

    Whenever I hear a western convert explain their reasoning behind wanting to wear Islamic dress, it's cringe worthy stuff.


    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #33 - February 01, 2011, 09:59 PM

    Understood.
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #34 - February 01, 2011, 10:03 PM

    I don't know why people convert to Islam? Well, that I'm still trying to figure out. I don't see it as a problem to state any conclusions I have made thus far. I'll keep on listening to peoples, conversion/deconversion stories and perhaps I will one day hear a story that did not make me feel, in the case of women, as though it was based on low self esteem issues. I know there are many female converts to Islam that don't share their story on the internet so I may never get a full picture, but still, finding out the real reasons why people convert, is why I'm on this forum actually.

  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #35 - February 02, 2011, 02:42 AM



    The reason why Ibn Warraq criticizes Said's work is because Warraq has reason to believe Said had willfully misinterpreting the work of many scholars, but also systematically misrepresenting Western civilization as a whole. That's why Warrq criticizes Said. If Warraq's accusations are true, then Said's book has nothing to do with self-examination.
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #36 - February 02, 2011, 09:34 PM

    I see.
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #37 - February 02, 2011, 09:42 PM

    Quote
    @Isabel

    What are we doing arguing over such a degraded mountebank as Warraq? The only question which matters is this: Can I hold you like a bunny? I want to show you something. Can you guess what it is my little rabbit?


    lol

    Show it to me.
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #38 - February 02, 2011, 10:14 PM

    LOL

    What a come back. You called my bluff. What will I do now? If I send you the nekkid pictures, will you promise not to laugh? I'm delicate.
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #39 - February 02, 2011, 10:16 PM

    Quote
    LOL

    What a come back. You called my bluff. What will I do now? If I send you the nekkid pictures, will you promise not to laugh? I'm delicate.


    Are you handsome?
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #40 - February 02, 2011, 10:36 PM

    Are you handsome?

    That's a disgusting question. I refuse to be objectified. You better retract it. If you want this to go anywhere take it real slow. Ask me something innocuous like: How big is your meat?
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #41 - February 02, 2011, 10:37 PM

    Ibn Warraq's a curious man. The main thrust of his book is that Freedom's Land is better than Absurdistan because the West has a tradition of self-criticism which the towelheads don't. No question. But why does he proceed to berate the likes of Edward Said in his work for doing precisely that, namely training his searchlight on the follies of colonialism and militarism?


    Very well said!

    The loudest and most fanatical proclaimers of the superiority of the West - are quite often the worst examples of it.  
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #42 - February 02, 2011, 10:52 PM

    ^ Western triumphalism is what Ibn Warraq trafficks in. Edward Said was being only a  tad unfair when he described his work as the darky's validation of western sterotypes. I like the man's crusading efforts minus the flat prose, and much of what he writes is commendable considering that he's been discharging rounds of shrapnel at Islam long before 9/11 made it a national concern, but nobody ever thanked a braggart.
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #43 - February 03, 2011, 12:06 AM

    I always like Edward Said when I was a Muslim. Anyone remember the TV series he did called "Arabs"? (I think that was what it was called?) I loved the way it started - showing diverse Arab faces.
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #44 - February 03, 2011, 03:03 AM

    That's a disgusting question. I refuse to be objectified. You better retract it. If you want this to go anywhere take it real slow. Ask me something innocuous like: How big is your meat?



    Ok I take it back.

    How high is your IQ?
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #45 - February 03, 2011, 08:56 PM

    @Isabel

    My IQ is south of ten. Not very impressive is it? You might be more interested in what is south of my belt. Because that is where I want us to go.
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #46 - February 03, 2011, 09:12 PM

    I always like Edward Said when I was a Muslim. Anyone remember the TV series he did called "Arabs"? (I think that was what it was called?) I loved the way it started - showing diverse Arab faces.

    Edward Said was a towering colossus. His politics ain't mine, and I don't give a wan emaciated damn about the Palestinians (whom God destroy), but he was a true cosmopolitan if the word means anything with a vast command of the Western canon, musically, poetically and novelistically. I picked up his essays many years ago and liked what I saw. He's one of those people whom you regret not having on your side of the trench in a quarrel. In sharp contrast, Ibn Warraq just strikes me as a witless idealogue though I agree with him on most things. To be a heretic is no vice, but to be witless is folly. That's my motto. What's yours?
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #47 - February 03, 2011, 09:48 PM

    @Isabel

    My IQ is south of ten. Not very impressive is it? You might be more interested in what is south of my belt. Because that is where I want us to go.


    lol

    Take me there baby
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #48 - February 03, 2011, 10:37 PM

    @Isabel

    If I slip a tongue between your hairy thighs and wrap my lips around your nipples, will you grass me to the wife?
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #49 - February 03, 2011, 11:40 PM


    I don't like the phrase 'West is Best', it is resonant of a kind of triumphalism.

    I think the values and ideas that have coalesced in many societies in the west are UNIVERSAL ones that were only reached relatively recently in terms of their full enactment, they were hard fought for, and they are being fought for and enacted in societies outside the West.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #50 - February 03, 2011, 11:48 PM

    Nothing to do with that. What the knuckle-dragging Western triumphalists fail to register is that men are always most severe against the faith against which they rebelled. I may be a confirmed skeptic of all the creeds under heaven, but my hostility toward Islam and let us say Hinduism are not equally matched. Having little acquaintance with the customs, the tradition and the folklore of the Hindu faith, it strikes me from a distance as an exotic and mysterious religion kissed by a thousand gods with a thousand d!cks. I have never endured its clerically imposed privations. I have never been scourged by its tyranny. I have not been robbed of sleep. Why should I then be expected to share the grievances of a Hindu widow on the lowest pecking order of the Indian caste system?

    Where I'm intimately acquainted with Islam, its follies, its perils, its menace to civilisation, Hinduism stirs no ill blood in me except a vauge awareness that it's quite, quite bad. So it is with everybody else. Edward Said was a Maronite Christian turned atheist. He's not expected to wage Jihad against the towelheads.


    Thats all true to an extent, but then in some ways Said rendered apologia for Islam. Do you remember the blind Egyptian sheikh who was involved in the original World Trade Centre bombing in 1993? I once saw an interview with Said in which he said that his arrest and investigations of him were examples of western bigotry and 'Islamophobia' because people mistook (because of their racist ignorance and prejudice) his hellfire ranting against kuffars for extremism when it was actually just harmless piety. This kind of thing does and can and has in the past led to an atmosphere in which even the slightest scrutiny of Islam, Islamic theology, even in extremist contexts, means putting yourself in the line of fire of people who cry wolf over and over and over again - it inhibited honest discussion of things, it still does in many contexts.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #51 - February 04, 2011, 01:08 AM

    That's interesting.
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #52 - February 04, 2011, 01:11 AM


    I invented dance.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #53 - February 04, 2011, 01:28 AM

    That's fine.
  • Re: The West is Best - Ibn Warraq
     Reply #54 - February 04, 2011, 03:33 AM

    @Isabel

    If I slip a tongue between your hairy thighs and wrap my lips around your nipples, will you grass me to the wife?


     Kiss
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »