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 Topic: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins

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  • Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     OP - February 03, 2011, 12:48 AM

    Message sent to me on Youtube

    just want a second of your time ......
    Just want your opinion somebody sent this video( link is down )....... telling me that see How Richard Dawkin is stupid ...... plz tell Do you think Dawkin didn't know about salt water and fresh water that are not mixing in the sea .
    because you have explained in your video that salt and fresh water not mixing .

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhVQcs4ZqwA


    ______________________________________


    My Reply:

    The claim I was debunking in my vid was no-one knew that where fresh water meets sea water the salt water coming in from the sea is denser than freshwater and so the salt water is concentrated at the bottom and freshwater at the top.

    (Actually that water does mix to a certain extent and become brackish - i.e. slightly salty.)

    But anyway - IF that is the claim of those who want to point to miracles - then this phenomena was known about before Islam.

    I suspect Dawkins wasn't aware that the girls were referring to this - but thought they simply meant mixing salt water and fresh water in a container - in which case I suspect it would mix.

    Certainly the river water that flows out of an estuary does eventually mix with the sea water.

    I hope that helps - I will post this on the forum to see if anyone else has any thoughts.

    Hassan

  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #1 - February 03, 2011, 12:59 AM

    Good job.. Afro

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #2 - February 03, 2011, 01:29 AM

    Quote
    (Clicky for piccy!)


    025.053
    YUSUFALI: It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.

    PICKTHAL: And He it is Who hath given independence to the two seas (though they meet); one palatable, sweet, and the other saltish, bitter; and hath set a bar and a forbidding ban between them.

    SHAKIR: And He it is Who has made two seas to flow freely, the one sweet that subdues thirst by its sweetness, and the other salt that burns by its saltness; and between the two He has made a barrier and inviolable obstruction.

    Sahih International:  And it is He who has released [simultaneously] the two seas, one fresh and sweet and one salty and bitter, and He placed between them a barrier and prohibiting partition.

    Proper translation of that 025.053 would be useful here to debunk the nonsense.  as you can see.. each one translates it in different way .

    neither there is barrier nor they stop mixing., yes if you make dense saturated salt water  and slowly pour tap water on it without shaking and without disturbing  we can create density gradient ., off course the gradient will disappear if enough time is given and the solution is not frozen,

    any fool who says there is science in Quran should be sent 6th grade


    Now the tricks these Islamic intellectual  bums play is with translation. question here is does Quran say

     There is a "forbidden partition" between fresh and salt water bodies so the fresh and salt water don't mix  like barrier  that forms between Oil and water where the interface acts as hydrophobic barrier??

      it is stupid to say that there is a forbidden  partition between salt water and fresh water

     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #3 - February 03, 2011, 02:11 AM

    Islamic intellectuals and Islamic links on this silly Science in Quran

    http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-e.htm
    http://scienceislam.com/quran_seas_rivers.php
    http://miracle-of-islam.blogspot.com/2009/02/fresh-air-tawar-in-ocean-depth.html
    http://www.humanity.name/islam/quran/sea.html
    http://quran-m.com/firas/en1/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=253:the-description-of-the-barrier-between-two-seas&catid=35:universe&Itemid=91
    http://www.islamuncovered.com/ebooks/ebookfiles/Scientific%20Evidences%20in%20the%20Quran.pdf
    http://my.opera.com/liquid%20snake/blog/scienctific-facts-in-quran
    http://www.articlesbase.com/science-articles/the-salt-in-bible-and-quran-124225.html
    http://www.knowingallah.com/V2/Document.aspx?id=1412&lang=en

    And that fool  Dr. Zaghlol El-Naggar on this nonsense  in Quran
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnplYi227q0

    with that sort of science in Islamic world how can any one expect Progress in the society.   Those who believe in Islam/Quran/allah whatever  should just take it as guidance to live  their lives as good person as possible .

     Anything more than that will be nothing more than nonsense and it MUST BE MOCKED


    mock them and move on

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #4 - February 03, 2011, 02:17 AM

    ohhh dear those girls remind me of myself when I was their age (wasn't long ago lol) they sound like sheep , sounded like they had been listening to a lecture by dr Zakir .The only reason why these girls have certainty is because they believe that science is on their side . I know converts that were convinced that Islam was the truth because of the "science" , somebody needs to openly debunk that argument on tv !!!!

    gotta give moe street credit for trying to make it "scientific" otherwise it would be like any other man made religion (which it is of course) .

    "its fashionable to be an ex Muslim these days"
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #5 - February 03, 2011, 03:05 AM

    the clip with the girl is that it..  was there more.. ??
    what if she had said that salt water and fresh water don't mix at all..
    i'd still like to see the whole thing.. what if he was talking to more than one pupil that answered.. or even referring to a different class all together..
    you never know with the editted stuff..
    but the fact these kids say the quran is a good source of science hurts.. really really hurts.. that's more embarrassing than the water thing.
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #6 - February 03, 2011, 03:15 AM

    good one to watch

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHoxZF3ZgTo


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGyh1Qsw-Ak

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #7 - February 03, 2011, 03:51 AM

     he looks so young!

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #8 - February 03, 2011, 04:23 AM

    he looks so young!

    oh common that lecture was around mid 80s 10 years after his book selfish gene in 1976.,, yes he was young..~42 year old guy...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #9 - February 03, 2011, 04:32 AM

    They mix... they don't mix... Stop interpreting! In all the translations I did not see the word mix, thus the only correct interpretation of the verse is mine and all the above was a complete waste of time. Here's what happened: Allah was miraculously telling Muhammad about the fact that Black Sea was once land locked and fresh water, thus with a barrier to Mediterranean Sea and World Ocean. And in 1997 two kafirs (as usual, 'cause Allah is funny like that) have discovered this fact in their "Black Sea deluge theory". Now, look it up, and reconvert to the true deen brothers and sisters in Kufr!!!  Smiley Otherwise I will see you breakdancing in Jahannam.

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #10 - February 03, 2011, 05:15 AM

    I've been meaning to get around to debunking this claim.
    This will be part 20 of my series. (on 18 so far)
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #11 - February 03, 2011, 09:40 AM

    Since when was fresh water ever called a "sea"?  Fresh water is rivers and streams, those classifications were in use at the time too were they not?

    The fact that he calls salt AND fresh water "seas" again corroborates that it is a regurgitation of the creation story in Genesis where at the start everything was water, and god put a firmament between two waters to separate them - he called one "the sea" and one "the sky".

    I addressed all 3 miracle claims in one video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmALFDbiIgE

    The relevant part starts at 4 mins - click here

    mighty_cats, feel free to download it and cut out each of the 3 debunks if you wish.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #12 - February 03, 2011, 12:50 PM

    but the fact these kids say the quran is a good source of science hurts.. really really hurts.. that's more embarrassing than the water thing.

    Yes, this really does hurt. This sort of thinking leads to all sorts of social disadvantages to those who give it the status of fact simply because they are emotionally attached to it.

    How are young Muslims infused with such nonsense going to run the world of tomorrow? They aren't going to, somebody else will. Such claptrap is intellectually damaging and it is a handicap to those who believe in it. They are shooting themselves in the foot.

    To quote The tailor (from his blog):
    It is boggles the mind that we are now in a situation in which young Muslim men and women are entering university repeating this stuff. Forgetting the damage it is doing to their spiritual path — fuzzy thinking like this will lead to social disadvantage for their respective communities.
    If you don’t understand the science behind the technology that runs the world, then you will have no hope of controlling that technology. You’ll be its slave, not its master. Clearly someone has got a good dissemination machine working over the ummah that might ultimately prove just as damaging to it as any past colonial power.
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #13 - February 03, 2011, 01:50 PM

    http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2008/08/quran-muslim-scientific

    Quote
    According to some Muslim scholars, everything from genetics to robotics and space travel is described in the Quran. What nonsense??   Science has acquired a new meaning in certain Muslim circles. When classical Muslim scholars declared that "whosoever does not know astronomy or anatomy is deficient in the knowledge of God", they were emphasising the importance of the scientific spirit in Islam and encouraging the pursuit of empirical science. But today, to a significant section of Muslims, science includes the discovery of "scientific miracles" in the Quran...


    Quote
    ..."Almost everything, from relativity, quantum mechanics, Big Bang theory, black holes and pulsars, genetics, embryology, modern geology, thermodynamics, even the laser and hydrogen fuel cells, have been 'found' in the Quran," says Nidhal Guessoum, professor of astrophysics at the American University of Sharjah. Whereas centuries ago, Muslim mathematicians discovered algebra (and led the world in countless fields of knowledge), some of today's believers look to the Quran for equations to yield the value of the speed of light or the age of the universe, and other bewildering feats.


    The tendency to read science in the Quran has a long history. In the 1950s, for example, when the US and the Soviet Union were competing to put a man in space, pamphlets appeared in India and Pakistan in which Quranic verses on the all-powerful nature of God were quoted to "prove" that manned space flight would never happen. However, for the current manifestation of ijaz, we need to thank not writers from the madrasas of the Middle East, but two western professors - neither man a Muslim.

    It began in 1976, with the publication of The Bible, the Quran and Science by Maurice Bucaille, a French surgeon who had served the Saudi monarchy and acquired his basic knowledge of the Quran in the kingdom. He set out to examine "the holy scriptures in the light of modern knowledge", focusing on astronomy, the earth, and the animal and vegetable kingdoms. His conclusion was that "it is impossible not to admit the existence of scientific errors in the Bible". In contrast: "The Quran most definitely did not contain a single proposition at variance with the most firmly established modern knowledge." Many Muslims embraced Bucaille's thesis as proof of the divine origins of the Quran.....

     Both Bucaille and Moore played on the inferiority complex of influential Saudis, suggesting that the Quran was a scientific treatise and proof that Muslims were modern long before the modern world and modern science. The Saudi government poured millions into ijaz literature. The Commission on Scientific Signs in the Quran and Sunnah was established. The first international conference on the subject was held in Islamabad, in 1987. Moore's paper was included in an illustrated study: Human Development As Described in the Quran and Sunnah. The field has been growing exponentially ever since.


    That is what a good man who could not live in land of pure wrote from London..read it all the link..
    http://www.ziauddinsardar.com/books.htm  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #14 - February 03, 2011, 02:31 PM

    There are different classes of estuary, Hassan.  The kind that don't mix too well when the tide comes in twice a day are called Salt Wedge Estuaries and are usually quite narrow. In these, the denser, tidal salt water pushes a tongue or wedge upstream beneath the out flowing, less dense fresh river water. This wedge can push under the FW for quite some distance with very little mixing before, eventually, regular mixing takes place.  Variables like river volume, purity and velocity; tidal height, velocity, oceanic wind and wave conditions (eg Fetch, Swell, direction in relation to estuary mouth, etc) and other factors like relative densities and temperatures determine where, when and how much mixing occurs during each tide. It's very complex but mixing does occur. If a substance is water-soluble it always tends towards less density when conditions allow more FW to dilute it (or mix).
    But of course this answer is beyond the imaginings of most people who don't have proper Science or don't live on the sea where they can make their own observations.

    I suspect that all the verse really means is 'He made both Freshwater and Seawater.' It's as simple as that. Logically it has to be - it's a simple document.  Look at my strapline below! AKA, Bullshit baffles brains.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #15 - February 03, 2011, 02:40 PM

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estuary

    All the different major types of estuary are described here.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #16 - February 03, 2011, 03:26 PM

    'He made both Freshwater and Seawater.'

    Good ol' Allah-kins - he changed waters mixing abilities just so we could have something clean to drink

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #17 - February 03, 2011, 04:36 PM

    How thoughtful of him.  He didn't just add salt to H2O to make salt water in invented a whole new kind of water. This Allah guy is amazing. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #18 - February 03, 2011, 05:24 PM

    btw I agre with some of the comments here - I don't think the verse was talking about the phenomena when a river meets a sea, the salt water goes below and the fresh water stays above (for a while at least.)

    I think it's obvious it's simply saying: "Hey look Allah made fresh drinking water and salty sea water and made it so they don't mix. (and that's what the classical tafseers say)

    Anyone familiar with the Qur'an will know that the Qur'an never ever stops using this formula - it goes like this:

    "Hey look at God's wonderful creation - you know all the stuff that anyone from the 7th century can observe and knows about - well "God did it" - so be grateful and worship him." (Often adding - and for those who don't God will hurt them - alot!")

    I was simply refuting the "claim" by Muslims who say the Qur'an is referring to this particular phenomena: by saying it was already known about and is recorded in Greek writing. In other words even if we take the interpretation offered by some Muslims today - it's still not true to say it wasn't known about until the Qur'an revealed it.

    Indeed even before the Greeks recorded this phenomena, people of more ancient times who lived by estuary's and fished on them are likely to have been aware of this perfectly observable phenomena.
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #19 - February 03, 2011, 06:50 PM

    @Nessrriinn

    yes, it's a documentary about faith schools in Britain. it's well worth watching! as other documentaries from this series.
    here is part one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulX8nZjeCXE

    The bit about muslim schools is in part 2 and starts around 6 minute:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3lwa8faV9s&feature=related

    I think a lot of us were brought here by google. Verily google guides whom it wills!

  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #20 - February 03, 2011, 07:18 PM

    Hassan deserves praise for putting up with this crap and actually educating people.

    I'm afraid I would just ridicule people if anyone pretended there's obscure science in the Quran.
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #21 - February 03, 2011, 08:13 PM

    I get a steady trickle of messages from the resurrection-men taking issue with something I've posted to which I give a boiler plate response directing them to the forum. No protracted debates via PM. Sometimes I get the odd Christer trying to convert me to his tribe which usually begin by saying that he's not trying to convert me only to go on to offer me Christian literature. These I don't mind so much. Exceptions are made expecially for women, one of whom I've been conversing with for some time now. A real babe. If I must kneel to JC to persuade her to kneel for me, then JC it is.
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #22 - February 04, 2011, 12:34 AM


    The bit about muslim schools is in part 2 and starts around 6 minute:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3lwa8faV9s&feature=related


    Oh, isn't that our friend who in another video says the punishment for 'apostrophe' (LoL) is death?


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #23 - February 15, 2011, 12:40 PM

    I heard Muhammad just copied many theories from the Greek texts. I mean in those days it must have been really impressive and divine.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #24 - February 16, 2011, 01:12 AM

    Hi guys, new here.

    I get the water not mixing thing quite a lot when I say that there is nothing in the koran that couldn't have been known to the wider populace at the time it was written, it is usually cited as an refutation to my insistance that there is no science in the koran.

    "Verily, how could the muslims of that time know that the salt water and the fresh water do not mix" they say. Piously

    Simple, fishermen know the diference between fresh and salt water fish, they also know how deep or shallow they catch their fish. If they fish at a particular spot and catch freshwater fish at a shallow depth and saltwater fish at the same spot at a deeper depth it follows that logically the water the fish swim in should match the species they catch.

    But this is just nonsense to a believer.

    "Happy happy, joy joy!" Stimpson J Cat.
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #25 - February 16, 2011, 03:09 AM

    This is good joke  some fellow responded under those videos.. lol
    Quote
    If I fuck up my studies and completely flunk on my education I dont have to worry, I'll just become a science teacher in a muslim school where I'll get paid despite knowing nothing.

     That is true.. But not all are like that., I had  brilliant guys  who happened to be Muslim as Physics and Chemistry lecturers . here is the better one.. multi-religious stuff

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XM3WoEeGcI

    Hmm.. This is a good one..  godly one..

    ...Atheism Purifies All religions..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWOIQAhN-0w

    Oh..boy..lol..

     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #26 - February 16, 2011, 07:23 AM

    A comment on the second video:

    Quote
    I'm going to raise my children to want to kill everybody because thats what I feel will be best for them. That's how I was raised, and don't tell me I'm not allowed to raise MY children the way I want to, or I'll kill you.


    Lmao yay

    To think that tax payer's money is being used to promote bullshit! finmad



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #27 - February 16, 2011, 11:33 AM

    Genesis 1:
    God moved across THE WATERS
    God put a barrier between two waters
    God lifted one up and named it "The heavens" (water in the sky is fresh)
    God named the lower water "The seas"

    In other words: God put a barrier between the two waters, one fresh and one salty, they meet (when it rains) but they do not mix (the clouds don't go into the sea.)

    What the fuck is so miraculous about taking the opening text from the Torah and making it shit?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #28 - February 16, 2011, 01:19 PM

    I heard Muhammad just copied many theories from the Greek texts. I mean in those days it must have been really impressive and divine.

    The problem here is, even Moh never knew at that time that people would continue to fall for his BS for next 1400 years..

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Young Muslim girls embarrass big Atheist Richard Dawkins
     Reply #29 - February 16, 2011, 01:29 PM

    Why is it that any Average Joe human can speak more clearly and concise in casual conversation, than the all-knowing architect of the universe can while giving his final orders to mankind on which our immortal souls depend?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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