Multiculturalism has failed : David Cameron

12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
- Mutha Kuffar
- Unrepentant Anti-Christ
- Pub Regular
- I ( dont ) think therefore I (sl) am
- offline
Multiculturalism has failed : David Cameron
OP - February 05, 2011, 02:23 AM

of all these from the one news story

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/feb/05/david-cameron-muslim-extremism

Feels great to hear someone stand up and have the balls to say this at last, but I am gutted it took this lot to do it.
Give it a few days untill labour supporters and others see that he will have tapped into something felt by others but that people were to afraid to say openly for fear of the 'racists,anti-muslim ' tag and that the sky will now not fall upon his head, then they will all start re-writing history saying that was their position all along.
If he gets severely cut down for saying this then the same old tune of 'racists etc etc ' will be played

Disheartened also becuase if I am right then this will be singularly responsible for a popularity poll rise for the tories, whose policies I have little truck with. A price worth paying though just to hear this said so publicly and from so high up.

Trick now is to keep an eye open for the real racists who will want to jump on this to spout their usual rancid shite.

On another note, people will be justified in criticising or being suspicious of his timing. On the eve of a widely publicised EDL march

According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
- deusvult
- O......O
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #1 - February 05, 2011, 03:00 AM

OMG

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
Just kidding, here are some true heros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #2 - February 05, 2011, 03:02 AM

Quote
His remarks suggest that a Home Office-led review into the government Prevent programme, being overseen by Lord Carlile, is going to lead to major changes.

It also suggests that he has sided unambiguously with figures such as Michael Gove inside his cabinet rather than his party chairman, Lady Warsi, who has complained of fashionable Islamophobia.

Cameron will argue many young men have been drawn to extremism due to a rootlessness created by the weakening of a clear collective British cultural identity.

He will say: "Under the doctrine of state multiculturalism we have encouraged different cultures to live separate lives, apart from each other and the mainstream. We have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong.

"We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values. So when a white person holds objectionable views – racism, for example – we rightly condemn them. But when equally unacceptable views or practices have come from someone who isn't white, we've been too cautious, frankly even fearful, to stand up to them."

He will warn his audience: "Europe needs to wake up to what is happening in our own countries. We need to be absolutely clear on where the origins of these terrorist attacks lie – and that is the existence of an ideology, Islamist extremism."

Jeeez

My Book
My Blog
- deusvult
- O......O
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #3 - February 05, 2011, 03:06 AM

whats wrong with what he said Islame?

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
Just kidding, here are some true heros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
- Mutha Kuffar
- Unrepentant Anti-Christ
- Pub Regular
- I ( dont ) think therefore I (sl) am
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #4 - February 05, 2011, 03:12 AM

I like this bit , and wish I could be a fly on the wall at these interviews

The Government is reviewing its entire strategy for counter-terrorism and community cohesion amid concern that the state is working too closely with Muslim groups that do not fully endorse liberal values. Mr Cameron will say that community groups will be scrutinised in future to see if they promote democracy, equality and integration. Those that fail the “tests” will be cut off. “No public money, no sharing of platforms with ministers,” he will say.

However I hope he puts other groups ,such as catholics through the endorsing liberal values test as well. See how many are willing to big up queers rights

According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
- deusvult
- O......O
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #5 - February 05, 2011, 04:32 AM

No such thing as queer rights, only human rights irregardless of sexual preference.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
Just kidding, here are some true heros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #6 - February 05, 2011, 04:43 AM

Quote from: deusvult on February 05, 2011, 03:06 AM
whats wrong with what he said Islame?

I can see where he's coming from & why he said it but I didnt like the way he brought skin colour into the conversation. He could have left skin colour out as it has deeply divisive connotations, and leaves a bitter taste in the mouth given its history.

Particularly as it didnt really have anything to do with the point at hand, and he could equally have replaced the word with indiginous culture - I suspect he was attempting to appeal to the rightist white vote. Its not like hindus & buddhists have anything to do with it.

I thought it was strong language for a primeminister, a UK one at that. Its certainly gonna put the cat amongst the pidgeons, and very much at odds with what Warsi had been saying.

What is going on, dont they have cabinet meetings to straighten out the message that is going out?

My Book
My Blog
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #7 - February 05, 2011, 04:46 AM

Quote from: Mutha Kuffar on February 05, 2011, 03:12 AM
The Government is reviewing its entire strategy for counter-terrorism and community cohesion amid concern that the state is working too closely with Muslim groups that do not fully endorse liberal values. Mr Cameron will say that community groups will be scrutinised in future to see if they promote democracy, equality and integration. Those that fail the “tests” will be cut off. “No public money, no sharing of platforms with ministers,” he will say.

Thats a very useful thing to come out of it - should have been done a long time ago. We should start of some type of quango

My Book
My Blog
- deusvult
- O......O
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #8 - February 05, 2011, 04:53 AM

Yea, for some reason skin color keeps getting mixed up with religious and political identity in British politics that has an all too similar feeling to bullshit racist politics in the 60's ( and that still exists to this day) and what not here. Its really annoying because even a yanky bloke like myself can see that even in the "brown" community there are plenty of people who are "culturally Muslim" but who support either explicitly or implicitly liberal ideals. Hopefully there will be more of a push of "British identity" based more on liberal ideals such as freedom of speech, equality for all irregardless of color, etc instead of an amorphous idea of what "British" is. Multiculturalism as it is is complete bullshit in the way of promoting a harmonious society and I am glad to see a public figure say it that isn't tied to fascist ideology.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
Just kidding, here are some true heros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #9 - February 05, 2011, 05:26 AM

Quote from: deusvult on February 05, 2011, 04:53 AM
Yea, for some reason skin color keeps getting mixed up with religious and political identity in British politics that has an all too similar feeling to bullshit racist politics in the 60's ( and that still exists to this day) and what not here. Its really annoying because even a yanky bloke like myself can see that even in the "brown" community there are plenty of people who are "culturally Muslim" but who support either explicitly or implicitly liberal ideals. Hopefully there will be more of a push of "British identity" based more on liberal ideals such as freedom of speech, equality for all irregardless of color, etc instead of an amorphous idea of what "British" is. Multiculturalism as it is is complete bullshit in the way of promoting a harmonious society and I am glad to see a public figure say it that isn't tied to fascist ideology.

Yep, I think he's planning to coin the term 'muscular liberalism'

My Book
My Blog
- Mutha Kuffar
- Unrepentant Anti-Christ
- Pub Regular
- I ( dont ) think therefore I (sl) am
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #10 - February 05, 2011, 10:05 AM

yes, that is a bit creepy that slogan. Lends itselft to the sinister

According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
- ateapotist
- Supermassive Black Hole
- Ex-Muslim
- Spaghettifier Extraordinaire
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #11 - February 05, 2011, 12:09 PM

Here's a video clip from his speech: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12372629

"Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

Baloney Detection Kit
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #12 - February 05, 2011, 12:15 PM

Quote from: ateapotist on February 05, 2011, 12:09 PM
Here's a video clip from his speech: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12372629

Interesting stuff

My Book
My Blog
- abzm94
- Member
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #13 - February 05, 2011, 01:08 PM

Finally.

Finally, the prime minister has the balls to step up and talk about this issue. Regardless if he's right or wrong, it's an issue that has to be addressed.

It's about time the government looks at how far Muslim communities have intergrated with society.

I reckon it's part of his "big society" project.
- Mutha Kuffar
- Unrepentant Anti-Christ
- Pub Regular
- I ( dont ) think therefore I (sl) am
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #14 - February 05, 2011, 01:11 PM

yes interesting. Only thing that jars there is him refering to the british as ' whites' . multi-culturalism may have failed but look around you Davey baby the rainbow is shining bright.
Or am I being too pedantic?
Does he have a reason to use it in that way ? Would a brown person criticising islamists ever be labelled racist for doing so?
Whatever the outcome of this it is going to stir up some great debate and I am all for that, been screaming out for it for years.
i just hope that by the time all the usual cliches and old chestnuts have been slung around that we end up with a new narrative that means finally progressing on these issues.
Feels wierd that it is coming from the Tories though and I will not lose my natural mistrust of anything this lot come up with , however any self-proclaimed liberal or leftist has to look at what he is saying and ask themselves why we could not have been making that same speech today. Within the answer lies the key to becoming aware of what holds us back .I believe.

According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
- Lilyesque
- The Deconverter
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #15 - February 05, 2011, 01:19 PM

I honestly do think that white people are seen as racist when if someone else said the same (say Asians) they wouldn't be seen as so. This speech of David Cameron is a good thing IMO.
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #16 - February 05, 2011, 01:24 PM

Good speech. Very good speech.

Will be like rubbing chilli powder on the arse of Guardian-istas, and the usual rent-a-gob Muslim 'spokesmen'

Cameron will be accused of bigotry and racism blah blah blah by the usual suspects, but that was inevitable. That he has said the right thing is all that matters.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- Mutha Kuffar
- Unrepentant Anti-Christ
- Pub Regular
- I ( dont ) think therefore I (sl) am
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #17 - February 05, 2011, 01:29 PM

Just had another thought. If the EDL kick off in Luton today Cameron may have spectacularly mistimed this. If it kicks off he will be accused
of encouraging them and the logic in his speech be drowned out by the backlash. Im afraid the subtleties of this will be lost on the hotheads on one side and exploited by those of the other.

According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
- GodIsNotGreat
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #18 - February 05, 2011, 01:31 PM

I think there should be a CEMB press release on this, any takers?

19:46 <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

Quote from: yeezevee
well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #19 - February 05, 2011, 01:33 PM

Quote from: Mutha Kuffar on February 05, 2011, 03:12 AM

The Government is reviewing its entire strategy for counter-terrorism and community cohesion amid concern that the state is working too closely with Muslim groups that do not fully endorse liberal values. Mr Cameron will say that community groups will be scrutinised in future to see if they promote democracy, equality and integration. Those that fail the “tests” will be cut off. “No public money, no sharing of platforms with ministers,” he will say.

In a perfect world, they'd include attitudes to ex Muslims and apostacy in that criteria as well.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #20 - February 05, 2011, 01:37 PM

Quote from: Mutha Kuffar on February 05, 2011, 01:29 PM
Just had another thought. If the EDL kick off in Luton today Cameron may have spectacularly mistimed this. If it kicks off he will be accused
of encouraging them and the logic in his speech be drowned out by the backlash. Im afraid the subtleties of this will be lost on the hotheads on one side and exploited by those of the other.

Yep, unfortunate timing, but I suspect Cameron was planning to give this speech at this conference and I believe he explicitly refers to the EDL as extremists in the speech itself.

Was watching Sky News this morning in which Maajid Nawaaz was talking about Egypt and then touched on this speech and he said that Cameron tears the BNP and EDL a new one in it too.

The only people who could use that against him are those who don't listen to what he says and want to make mischief about it anyway, the Islamists and Leftist Islamist / Ummah Identity Politics of the Guardian worldview who would scream 'Nazi' at him anyway.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- HighOctane
- Ex-Muslim
- On the flr of Tokyo, or dwn in Lndn twn to go go
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #21 - February 05, 2011, 01:43 PM

Way to go, idaho!

David Cameron warns of failed 'state multiculturalism'

Of course it's FAILED. It is still FAILING. The more this gets addressed on what British values are, the better.

Multiculturalism can mean a lot of things depending on what "culture" means. But when it comes to core values, these aren't up for negotiation. Immigrants, second and third generation immigrants need to accept this whether it is equal law for all, whether it is that ex-Muslim apostates should exist, whether it is that hardcore madrassa schools are not a good thing, whether it is that alcohol can be sold, whether it is that women have equal rights to men, whether it is that gay people have a right to exist or whether it is simply that a woman should not be forced to wear a burka; they need to assimilate to to British core values (imo). The longer we tolerate different core cultural values then the harder it will be for them to be part of wider society.

-->> DONATE TO CEMB

Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #22 - February 05, 2011, 01:44 PM

Can't wait to see what Mehdi 'All Kuffars Are Animals and Cattle With No Intelligence' Hasan has to say about it, steam will be coming out of his ears.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #23 - February 05, 2011, 01:47 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on February 05, 2011, 01:43 PM
Multiculturalism can mean a lot of things depending on what "culture" means.

Its rotten identity politics that 'state multiculturalism' inculcates that is the main problem.

Everything stems from that.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- HighOctane
- Ex-Muslim
- On the flr of Tokyo, or dwn in Lndn twn to go go
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #24 - February 05, 2011, 01:48 PM

We've already got a review from this gentlemen here:

Muslims4Uk says Cameron speech is 'patronising'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12372632

All due respect, the level of relativism Mr Bunglawala speaks with serves nothing useful but a "good debate" for the media.

-->> DONATE TO CEMB

Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
- Lilyesque
- The Deconverter
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #25 - February 05, 2011, 01:50 PM

Do you want me to type up the press release? I shall do that in a separate thread here for other people to look at and modify it and things like that. Is that okay?
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #26 - February 05, 2011, 01:53 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on February 05, 2011, 01:48 PM
We've already got a review from this gentlemen here:

Muslims4Uk says Cameron speech is 'patronising'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12372632

All due respect, the level of relativism Mr Bunglawala speaks with serves nothing useful but a "good debate" for the media.

Bunglawala is exactly the kind of person that Cameron is talking about, of course he's jumping around with ants in his pants.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- HighOctane
- Ex-Muslim
- On the flr of Tokyo, or dwn in Lndn twn to go go
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #27 - February 05, 2011, 01:55 PM

Quote from: billy on February 05, 2011, 01:47 PM
Its rotten identity politics that 'state multiculturalism' inculcates that is the main problem.

Everything stems from that.

Pretty much. If culture means clothing, music, food ... even these are impacted by core values. Core values of a modern, with it, Indian from Bangalore is exactly the same as an average Britain. That Indian will party, drink, wear clothes showing a bit of flesh (if a woman) and try pork (if not vegetarian). But take a hard-line or fairly conservative Muslim from Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nigeria or some Arab state then it impacts all these more tangible things such as clothes, food, music, etc. And unfortunately, it can run on several generations within Britain as we see today.

Thankfully, there are modern Bangladeshi, Pakistani and Nigerians who live by British values by default - just not enough of them, say, compared to the Indian demographic.

-->> DONATE TO CEMB

Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
- HighOctane
- Ex-Muslim
- On the flr of Tokyo, or dwn in Lndn twn to go go
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #28 - February 05, 2011, 01:58 PM

Quote from: Lilyesque on February 05, 2011, 01:50 PM
Do you want me to type up the press release? I shall do that in a separate thread here for other people to look at and modify it and things like that. Is that okay?

OOh yes please. I'll be happy to review. We can then submit to Hassan or Maryam for approval.

-->> DONATE TO CEMB

Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Re: Shocked. Amazed. Encouraged , Disheartened
Reply #29 - February 05, 2011, 01:59 PM

Bunglawala was handing out leaflets as a student spreading anti-semitic theories about how Jewish bankers and Jews in general conspire to rule the world. He praised Osama Bin Laden as a great Muslim before 9/11, including after he had bombed the embassies in Nairobi and Dar e Salam, which killed hundreds of innocent African men and women. He is a prime example of the kind of extremist mindset that mainstreamed in the Muslim discourse, masquerading as a moderate. He has never written about or described how or when he disavowed Bin Laden as a Muslim hero, but he has carved a career for himself by peddling the line that Muslims like him must be given public money to represent a particular viewpoint as a 'representative' of Muslims. He is an absolute creep, and the fact that the media never really confronts him with these facts also speaks of how ignorant or fearful journalists are in the face of Islamists in the UK, how they get an easy ride from so much of the establishment.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »