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Theme Changer

 Topic: I Want a New Way

 (Read 18796 times)
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  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #60 - February 10, 2011, 11:58 AM


    OK, so basically what we need is a way of criticising, scrutinising, confronting (and if nessecary) ridiculing Islam / Aspects of Islam, ESPECIALLY and most importantly those aspects that impinge on the secular space and inhibit freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, that are imperialistic and supremacist / separatist in ideology, ie: when Islam becomes a form of politics and identity politics, and when Islam seeks to intervene in the organisation of society and the rights and liberties of individuals, dissenters, ex Muslims, non Muslims, and very importantly, women.

    We need to find a way to do all that WITHOUT cleaving to a narrative that essentialises all Muslims or projects universal causative links between ideology and individuals, whilst at the same time being robust enough to not waver from being rational and specific in the criticisms and repudiations that need to be made.

    Thats basically the core of it all, isn't it?

    Lets start with the fact that a certain percentage of Muslims will always be upset and offended by any criticism of Islam, either on a philosophical level, or against its identity-politics aspirations.

    Basically, we will never be able to do any of this without offending a certain proportion of Muslims, no matter how rational and specific and careful we are to point out that the criticism applies to ideology, belief, and those proponents of that ideology and belief - not against individuals.

    Because, just how do you confront, scrutinise and repudiate the ideology of Islam in its most assertive and backward minded, communalist, anti-individual forms, without causing offence to some Muslims?

    Remember, it is the truth claims, the total truth claims that are made by Muslims for Islam that make these causative claims for Islam - NOT THOSE WHO CRITICISE THEM. It is our criticism that undermines them, but they are the claims made by men (and women) for Islam that in the first instance create the ideology and subsume the individual inside the collective, who speak for the collective, and assert a binary, manichean division of humanity.

    The benign lives of ordinary Muslims is not in question. Highlighting their existence is a way to undermine the certainties and the assertiveness of Islam as an ideology too. That is not a problem. That should be done anyway. However.....

    You cannot be inhibited or made to feel stigmatised for your free expression of conscience.

    Power without scrutiny is what this would mean. It is a prospect that is horrific to contemplate.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #61 - February 10, 2011, 12:06 PM


    Basically, isn't the root of this aggressive denial of individual life, of free, fluid conscience, of individuated experience, of pluralism, doesn't all of this originate in the ideology and identity-politics and imperial sense of mission of the dogmatists of Islam? (And their mirror images in other religions and other religious essentialist purifying movements?)

    When bigots essentialise Muslims, all they are doing is repeating what Islamic ideologues say about Islam and Muslims themselves, with some elaboration.

    Who demonises Muslims and denies individuated life and the autonomy of the individual in this dynamic, more than the mullahs, imams, Ummah-ists, and those who propagate literalist teachings of the Quran?

    The whole thing is topsty turvey. It is Islam that forms Muslims into an amorphous, undifferentiated mass, that asserts that the 'kuffar' are also an undifferentiated essentialised collective, that posits as an ideal the complete subsuming of individual conscience to the ethics and morality of a religion called Islam.

    Not us. Not those who criticise Islam rationally and specifically. We criticise the essentialising of humanity and human experience that hydra-forms of Islam assert as the natural universal fact of existence.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #62 - February 10, 2011, 01:11 PM

    Islam is (as all religions are) an ideology and as such it deserves to be critically analysed in an unconditional way. Critique cannot be carried out in a respectful way because genuine critique of a religion is by definition disrespectful because it encroaches on religion's sacredness and claims of absolute truth.

    Here one can either de facto abandon all critique and treat religionists in a patronising way in order not to hurt them and ruin their illusions or one can submit religions to a critique that does not seek to shock believers with blasphemous statements for the sake of shocking but is nevertheless ruthless and critical in its analysis. This imo is the way to show true respect for Muslims - to treat them as serious adults who are responsible for their beliefs.

    Having said that raping every Muslim newcomer with a barrage questions and refutations is probably not the best approach because it drives them away - and I am just as guilty of this as a lot of others are. If one wants a dialogue one needs to have somebody to have dialogue with.

    And even the 'elders' can be idiotic, like when I bring up genuine grievances muslims have like the situation in Palestine, I get called a "jew hater"  parrot

    I am not really sure what the definition of a "jew hater" is but you have in the past expressed your explicit support for policies and actions that would result in indiscriminate and non-selective punishment of Israelis.
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #63 - February 10, 2011, 02:17 PM

    Quote
    Here one can either de facto abandon all critique and treat religionists in a patronising way in order not to hurt them and ruin their illusions or one can submit religions to a critique that does not seek to shock believers with blasphemous statements for the sake of shocking but is nevertheless ruthless and critical in its analysis. This imo is the way to show true respect for Muslims - to treat them as serious adults who are responsible for their beliefs.


    Thats true but I think what Hassan and Nessrriin are saying (forgive me if I'm wrong guys) is that there is something else deeper than that, something instinctual involved in this confronting and criticism of Islam, and that is something they feel in their souls about how to reject Islam without rejecting Muslims they love or marginalising the individual Muslims who bear no mind to any of the tenets of Islam that are being criticised, but who are at risk of being marginalised in the zero sum equation that these debates often fall into. With organisations like the EDL cruising around the place, the atmospherics surrounding all of this do mean that a cost of criticism is something that ex Muslims have to deal with.

    Its deeper than textbook criticism and different from laboratory conditions in which Muslims take offence for the sake of it. Those people can be ignored and you can carry on regardless of them. This is to do with a deeper sense of connection, dislocation and concern, which is even hard to articulate properly for them. Its to do with the general atmospherics in our time, to do with caution and wisdom and self belief and love for Muslims regardless of their beliefs.

    I think that is what concerns them and should concern all of us, to be honest.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #64 - February 10, 2011, 03:04 PM

     001_wub billy.. yes!
    i can't speak for Hassan..
    but i wub u!..
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #65 - February 10, 2011, 03:05 PM

    The young ones (like that knob donatelo--I think he's young) seems to think the US and the 'west' is always right and muslims are always wrong

    Steady now, Don is a cool fella. He’s twice the age of most of these spotty-faced little chits and has got a bigger d!ck. Don’t ask me how I know. If the man whoops for the Pentagon, what of it? Do you think Muslims give a rat’s tail about the fate of apostates? Long live the Zionist-Crusaders! 

    Onto the topic: The trouble with Hassan is that he's been ensorcelled by Muslim pussy. And who can blame the guy? I would behave likewise if I met a cute Fatima in whose curves I want to lose myself.  It's an old, old story. The real question though is to what extent should we facilitate his amorous entanglement? The rest is just cover. My view is that a brother should be assisted in sweating between the sheets with a babe so long as it doesn't slow down the operations of the murtadeen. Let a fancy restaurant be instantly booked, the bestest red wine fetched, condoms offered, clean sheets provided, rooms made available and breath fresheners purchased all out of the CEMB kitty. But in return Hassan needs to prove that the money really is going toward a Night of Inter-Faith Passion. As my legal defence said when I got railroaded into jail for grabbing a man’s family jewels: Pictures, or it’s not true.

    Give us the racy photos, man. Let me see that gap toothed smile. Funds should be allocated based on how pretty the young lovely is, if young at all she is or pretty.  Till we’ve thrown a glance on the sweet little thing, till that is we have collectively decided she is worth the lavish expenditure, to hell with him and bad luck to him! Pussy sure does mad things to a man. Seek help, brother, seek help.

    Onto more engaging themes. Some would like us to observe a sharp distinction between Muslims and Islam. Conceptually speaking, I can do this fairly well, but in reality Islam would not exercise anyone if it was merely a string of incoherent syllogisms. What stirs a man’s blood is people. Not dead abstractions. I may object to the authoritarian elements of Plato’s Republic, I may think no more imbecilic document was ever trumpeted as a vast repository of learning, but why do I not spend my energy cursing the daft Greek chap night and day? Answer: Because there isn't an army of Platonists who want to separate children at birth from their parents to rear them as Philosopher Kings.

    The distinction between a mere silly idea and a hazardous one is how many people will turn up for a beer party thrown in its founder’s honour. If you need to rent a large hotel ball room for the bash, you have a problem. To admonish one for bearing down too heavily on Allah’s gang is to forget what makes one become a keyboard mercenary in the first instance. Nobody was ever roused to enthusiasm by anything so feeble as a thought. A man reaches for his rifle only when ideas jump dangerously out of a person’s lips, that is to say when ideas quit being high-flown abstractions and grow legs and arms with which to do battle. Ideas don't kill people. People kill people. Who said that?

    To quarrel with a person is not to object to his ideas merely. It is to question his moral integrity, his honesty, his fundamental sanity for advancing a creed, political or theological, that you find damnworthy. This of course ain’t right.  My heroes are all political scoundrels, but I respect them as men of vast learning, ingenuity and unflappable genius. They are not stupid. Far from it. They are just, well, let us say they are differently wired.  To eminent psychologists I leave the question and press on to less confusing things. But the point is that ideas gather the combustible material and men supply the flame.

    In summation, what I be tryna say is that Ishina and Billy, those skirt-clutching drama queens, have it quite, quite right. Listen to those girls. They be spittin’ truth.  I don’t say this just because I have slept with them in circumstances not always consensual. Na mean dawg? Nothing I’ve said here incidentally should let Hassan off the hook: Pictures, or it’s not true.

    Stray question: What is that daft trophy on my head that looks like it was fetched from the dime store?  Wasn’t there when I last signed off. Talk about offensive behaviour. Actually, I change my mind. This place needs to show some respect to its elder statesmen. To the Admin:  Ban whatever pond life pulled that damned stunt for fourty days and fourty nights in the hallowed tradition of our Redeeming Saviour. Despicable.
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #66 - February 10, 2011, 04:31 PM

    001_wub billy.. yes!
    i can't speak for Hassan..
    but i wub u!..


     Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #67 - February 10, 2011, 06:06 PM


    I am not really sure what the definition of a "jew hater" is but you have in the past expressed your explicit support for policies and actions that would result in indiscriminate and non-selective punishment of Israelis.


    Just like the blockade of Gaza and the sanctions on Iran that hurt ordinary Iranians (many of whom hate the clergy) and not the regime itself. Don't give what you can't take.

    That's true, she is.  She's really nice on chat, I wanted to pull her hair out by the roots when I only spoke to her on the forum.  grin12


    I'd like to see you try  grin12
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #68 - February 10, 2011, 06:10 PM



    Having said that raping every Muslim newcomer with a barrage questions and refutations is probably not the best approach because it drives them away - and I am just as guilty of this as a lot of others are. If one wants a dialogue one needs to have somebody to have dialogue with.


    Questions they don't even know the answers to, bcoz they never knew Islam allows such things! E.g. "What do you think about Mo having slaves?" Muslim: "Islam allows slaves?"  Cheesy  Fact is most muslims are ignorant of stuff in the hadith and other niceties in Islam.
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #69 - February 10, 2011, 06:34 PM

    ^^Yes. I brought that up with a friend last week. I asked him how he felt about Islam allowing slaves, he got angry and told me I was wrong, I told him that Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries didn't ban slavery until the 60's and that Sudanese "arabs" had no problem taking black slaves to this day, he just told me that they've misinterpreted Islam and Saudi Arabia isn't even an Islamic country anyway since they have a royal family. I also brought up the fact that Islam allows men to have sex with their slaves, he replied "even if you showed me the verse, I still wouldn't believe it." 015

    Muslims have it in their heart that Islam is good and see everything through Islam-is-good goggles.

    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #70 - February 10, 2011, 08:05 PM

    Just like the blockade of Gaza and the sanctions on Iran that hurt ordinary Iranians (many of whom hate the clergy) and not the regime itself. Don't give what you can't take.

    I think that everybody who isn't completely retarded agrees that such indiscriminate punishment is wrong and is against it.

    You however seem to support it as long as such indiscriminate punishment is directed against those you dislike.

    When morals are concerned how does that make you different from say Israeli or US establishment that you so vehemently condemn?
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #71 - February 10, 2011, 08:12 PM


    Ishina.  001_wub


    This ^
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #72 - February 10, 2011, 08:13 PM

    Oh and also what Billy said. That is my contribution to this non-issue.
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #73 - February 10, 2011, 08:58 PM

    Quote
    Onto more engaging themes. Some would like us to observe a sharp distinction between Muslims and Islam. Conceptually speaking, I can do this fairly well, but in reality Islam would not exercise anyone if it was merely a string of incoherent syllogisms. What stirs a man’s blood is people. Not dead abstractions. I may object to the authoritarian elements of Plato’s Republic, I may think no more imbecilic document was ever trumpeted as a vast repository of learning, but why do I not spend my energy cursing the daft Greek chap night and day? Answer: Because there isn't an army of Platonists who want to separate children at birth from their parents to rear them as Philosopher Kings.

    The distinction between a mere silly idea and a hazardous one is how many people will turn up for a beer party thrown in its founder’s honour. If you need to rent a large hotel ball room for the bash, you have a problem. To admonish one for bearing down too heavily on Allah’s gang is to forget what makes one become a keyboard mercenary in the first instance. Nobody was ever roused to enthusiasm by anything so feeble as a thought. A man reaches for his rifle only when ideas jump dangerously out of a person’s lips, that is to say when ideas quit being high-flown abstractions and grow legs and arms with which to do battle. Ideas don't kill people. People kill people. Who said that?

    To quarrel with a person is not to object to his ideas merely. It is to question his moral integrity, his honesty, his fundamental sanity for advancing a creed, political or theological, that you find damnworthy. This of course ain’t right.  My heroes are all political scoundrels, but I respect them as men of vast learning, ingenuity and unflappable genius. They are not stupid. Far from it. They are just, well, let us say they are differently wired.  To eminent psychologists I leave the question and press on to less confusing things. But the point is that ideas gather the combustible material and men supply the flame.



    clap Wonderful!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #74 - February 10, 2011, 11:54 PM

    Thanks to Hassan, I thought this forum demarcated these boundaries pretty well.  Do you mean Muslims posters that visit here, in which I case I agree with you.  But how do we police newbies, and is it our job to?


    no that's just a small part of it - in general i think that muslims who come on here are treated fairly - as i was. and i'm not talking about giving anyone special treatment either. it's just that sometimes i think the veiws towards the nicer muslims is not always fair and they are seen as muslim first and human second. one example was the responses to the video in the original post in this thread (although i didn't like the videos posted by olweasel right at the end of the thread):


    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=11366.0

    the video in the OP is a corny and cheesy and even silly, sure, but they seem like perfectly nice human beings - and i just thought the general reaction to the video was quite harsh for my liking - it's this type of general negativity  that i am really taking about and do not like - but at the same time i would never tell someone else to stop - it's just my opinion

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #75 - February 11, 2011, 12:03 AM

    I think it's a load of shit, frankly. There is only one Muslim that I know of on this forum, and he seems to get along fine, y'know, like a normal human gets along fine. I wouldn't patronize him by giving him special treatment. And, shockingly, he doesn't seem to expect any. Imagine that? In fact, it seems to me that this vile place of horror is actually quite welcoming as long as you're not a dick, and that newcomers are taken at face value regardless of faith or creed.

    Since nobody is willing to point out instances where the forum is overly aggressive or offensive to Muslims, and which isn't just a by-product of essential criticism of the particular actions, beliefs and opinions that are presented in an arena of ideas, I can only conclude people are inventing stuff to complain about, maybe to flex some kind of superficial moral superiority. Though, there is a saying that all groups of friends have a bitch, and if yours doesn't have a bitch, you are the bitch, so I'm starting to get paranoid...


    that's not what i'm saying - this forum is a real gem, and i have more friends on here than i have in real life and i really respect people on here - even people who i disagree with from time to time. lord knows i have a lot to be thankful for by simply particpating on here - it has changed my life for the better - but that doesn't mean i have to like every single thing that goes on here.

    and i am morally superior to all you bitches  grin12

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #76 - February 11, 2011, 12:05 AM

    Thats true but I think what Hassan and Nessrriin are saying (forgive me if I'm wrong guys) is that there is something else deeper than that, something instinctual involved in this confronting and criticism of Islam, and that is something they feel in their souls about how to reject Islam without rejecting Muslims they love or marginalising the individual Muslims who bear no mind to any of the tenets of Islam that are being criticised, but who are at risk of being marginalised in the zero sum equation that these debates often fall into. With organisations like the EDL cruising around the place, the atmospherics surrounding all of this do mean that a cost of criticism is something that ex Muslims have to deal with.

    Its deeper than textbook criticism and different from laboratory conditions in which Muslims take offence for the sake of it. Those people can be ignored and you can carry on regardless of them. This is to do with a deeper sense of connection, dislocation and concern, which is even hard to articulate properly for them. Its to do with the general atmospherics in our time, to do with caution and wisdom and self belief and love for Muslims regardless of their beliefs.

    I think that is what concerns them and should concern all of us, to be honest.




    i agree with zis  Smiley

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #77 - February 11, 2011, 12:07 AM

    @Mount A Bison:
    Yet another brilliant/witty/funny/intelligent post. Afro

    It was a wall of text and a tl;dr; but your posts are always worth reading. Smiley

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #78 - February 11, 2011, 02:37 AM

    Oh and also what Billy said. That is my contribution to this non-issue.

     Cheesy

    Mount a Bison, do you have any clue how much I missed you?

    Seriously though, you have a gift of stating obvious shit that in the end makes me doubt my sanity. Like now, I feel that everything you said is clearly true so it must follow that I hate Muslims and not Islam. Yet I also feel that it is not the case. How can it be? I will respect your request not to show you up, however, and will remain silent on the issue. (You can be really annoying, MAB.)

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #79 - February 11, 2011, 06:18 AM

    Steady now, Don is a cool fella. He’s twice the age of most of these spotty-faced little chits and has got a bigger d!ck. Don’t ask me how I know. If the man whoops for the Pentagon, what of it? Do you think Muslims give a rat’s tail about the fate of apostates? Long live the Zionist-Crusaders! 

    Onto the topic: The trouble with Hassan is that he's been ensorcelled by Muslim pussy. And who can blame the guy? I would behave likewise if I met a cute Fatima in whose curves I want to lose myself.  It's an old, old story. The real question though is to what extent should we facilitate his amorous entanglement? The rest is just cover. My view is that a brother should be assisted in sweating between the sheets with a babe so long as it doesn't slow down the operations of the murtadeen. Let a fancy restaurant be instantly booked, the bestest red wine fetched, condoms offered, clean sheets provided, rooms made available and breath fresheners purchased all out of the CEMB kitty. But in return Hassan needs to prove that the money really is going toward a Night of Inter-Faith Passion. As my legal defence said when I got railroaded into jail for grabbing a man’s family jewels: Pictures, or it’s not true.

    Give us the racy photos, man. Let me see that gap toothed smile. Funds should be allocated based on how pretty the young lovely is, if young at all she is or pretty.  Till we’ve thrown a glance on the sweet little thing, till that is we have collectively decided she is worth the lavish expenditure, to hell with him and bad luck to him! Pussy sure does mad things to a man. Seek help, brother, seek help.

    Onto more engaging themes. Some would like us to observe a sharp distinction between Muslims and Islam. Conceptually speaking, I can do this fairly well, but in reality Islam would not exercise anyone if it was merely a string of incoherent syllogisms. What stirs a man’s blood is people. Not dead abstractions. I may object to the authoritarian elements of Plato’s Republic, I may think no more imbecilic document was ever trumpeted as a vast repository of learning, but why do I not spend my energy cursing the daft Greek chap night and day? Answer: Because there isn't an army of Platonists who want to separate children at birth from their parents to rear them as Philosopher Kings.

    The distinction between a mere silly idea and a hazardous one is how many people will turn up for a beer party thrown in its founder’s honour. If you need to rent a large hotel ball room for the bash, you have a problem. To admonish one for bearing down too heavily on Allah’s gang is to forget what makes one become a keyboard mercenary in the first instance. Nobody was ever roused to enthusiasm by anything so feeble as a thought. A man reaches for his rifle only when ideas jump dangerously out of a person’s lips, that is to say when ideas quit being high-flown abstractions and grow legs and arms with which to do battle. Ideas don't kill people. People kill people. Who said that?

    To quarrel with a person is not to object to his ideas merely. It is to question his moral integrity, his honesty, his fundamental sanity for advancing a creed, political or theological, that you find damnworthy. This of course ain’t right.  My heroes are all political scoundrels, but I respect them as men of vast learning, ingenuity and unflappable genius. They are not stupid. Far from it. They are just, well, let us say they are differently wired.  To eminent psychologists I leave the question and press on to less confusing things. But the point is that ideas gather the combustible material and men supply the flame.

    In summation, what I be tryna say is that Ishina and Billy, those skirt-clutching drama queens, have it quite, quite right. Listen to those girls. They be spittin’ truth.  I don’t say this just because I have slept with them in circumstances not always consensual. Na mean dawg? Nothing I’ve said here incidentally should let Hassan off the hook: Pictures, or it’s not true.

    Stray question: What is that daft trophy on my head that looks like it was fetched from the dime store?  Wasn’t there when I last signed off. Talk about offensive behaviour. Actually, I change my mind. This place needs to show some respect to its elder statesmen. To the Admin:  Ban whatever pond life pulled that damned stunt for fourty days and fourty nights in the hallowed tradition of our Redeeming Saviour. Despicable.



    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.............AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #80 - February 11, 2011, 08:26 AM

    Quote
    The distinction between a mere silly idea and a hazardous one is how many people will turn up for a beer party thrown in its founder’s honour. If you need to rent a large hotel ball room for the bash, you have a problem.

    ROFL. I just put that in my sig on another site. grin12

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #81 - February 11, 2011, 03:28 PM

    @Oz

    Does the concept of intellectual property obtain in Down Under? I'd like my royalties please. I won't ask you again.

    @Teapot

    What language is "tldr"? Knocked me right back. That lingo's beyond folks in my age bracket. Cut that out. Sounds barbarous. Give me some easy listening. Something I can bob my head to in the car.
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #82 - February 11, 2011, 03:35 PM

    tl;dr   =  too long; didn't read

    (don't like typing too much either)

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #83 - February 11, 2011, 03:37 PM

    Cheesy

    Mount a Bison, do you have any clue how much I missed you?

    Steady now Ivan, this is dangerous. I don’t know how much of what I said is rational because I don’t believe in rationality. The human concept of rationalism, like marital fidelity, is much overrated.  I speak from the gut. I believe that any long running conversation not peppered with a generous sprinkling of abuse and unsayables topped off with damaging lies about a guy’s manhood is not a conversation at all. It is academic posturing. It is the modern day pretension to the Genteel Tradition.  Men do not speak like that.  It is inhuman, intolerable, indecent like the prissy schoolmarms who trawl the dictionary for obscene words to strike out.

    What makes things worse is that in every Vice-Crusader’s head is a lively brothel. I don’t know how people live without loosening a volley of four letter words every now and then. Not to be overdone of course like those pornographic duo Teapot and Ephemeral.  That is shabby stuff and quite ungodly. But just the right dose of abuse rekindles the dying embers of a tete-a-tete and keeps things fresh and sunny. I recommend it.

    Like now, I feel that everything you said is clearly true so it must follow that I hate Muslims and not Islam.

    Hate is for losers driven mad 'cause they have to pay women for what other men get free. Hate none of God’s chillun. Just keep your eyes peeled for the forest-chins, the cute Fatimas and the murtads who want to convince us their promptings of the flesh is really just a manifestation of civility. That's all.

  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #84 - February 11, 2011, 04:03 PM

    @Teapot

    Thanks for inaugurating the Emoticon Age. I crown you emperor.

  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #85 - February 11, 2011, 04:05 PM

    Who the hell does this Abu Yunus think he is? Why is this pilfering, poaching, plagiarising pond life not banned for making off with my sig like he and I were old time lovers between whom nothing is withheld? I wouldn’t mind so much if he let me cop a feel when the red mist of lust descends without charging me ten green backs. So why should I let him raid my bottom drawer for quotes when the Hairy Turk can’t fondle his bottom drawers?   

    Bad enough that he’s a grubbing thief. The man is an accomplished liar too: Goes around telling the godless that he’s a hardcore Deobandi cum militant Sufi unswayed from the siratul mustaqeem.  What’s a guy like that doing flirting with David Hume? This man is a fraud, a charlatan, a closet murtad like no other. Always has been, always will. 

     Now look here Abu, I don’t mind if you plunder my things. As the Redeemer once said, if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. I love you brother fee sabilillah. Pray just let me squeeze you like a bunny.  If I may part your bottom cheeks, I promise you’ll walk funny in the morning beaming a radiant smile.
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #86 - February 11, 2011, 05:08 PM

    Hassan... isn't that what life is all about, though.  Reaching the apex only to find out
    its a plateau, with more apexes on the horizon. 

    We learn, and sometimes outgrow the lessons, and need to move on.  This isn't to say
    we aren't grateful, most are EXTREMELY grateful for those along our path (i.e. CEMB) who have
    helped prod us along, really make us face inner demons and contemplate where were are, and
    where we want to be.  Trying to understand and grasp what we were involved with, and having
    others along side us, knowing fully the unique dillemas we face daily. 

    There are an amazing number of young folks here, Hassan.  You, having been a teacher for so
    many years (subject matter is irrelivant)  and many of them need someone to help them understand
    this distressing transition only someone with the gift of teaching can help them understand Smiley 


    There are those of us who have believed in the big sky daddy for decades, often twice, sometimes 3
    times as long as some of the members have been alive LOL.  Your wisdom and understanding is
    such a blessing to help them along this road most of us have been on.  You have helped me, as well
    and I am so very grateful to you.  But if your life's path is leading you on a different fork in the road,
    then bon chance, and bon voyage, you will always know where you are respected, even loved,
    and mostly gratitude for your participation.  Thank you Hassan.

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #87 - February 11, 2011, 05:59 PM

    Forget this thread please - only a few understood what I was trying to say - and I don't want to explain - so just forget it.
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #88 - February 11, 2011, 07:02 PM

    Who the hell does this Abu Yunus think he is? Why is this pilfering, poaching, plagiarising pond life not banned for making off with my sig like he and I were old time lovers between whom nothing is withheld? I wouldn’t mind so much if he let me cop a feel when the red mist of lust descends without charging me ten green backs. So why should I let him raid my bottom drawer for quotes when the Hairy Turk can’t fondle his bottom drawers?   

    Bad enough that he’s a grubbing thief. The man is an accomplished liar too: Goes around telling the godless that he’s a hardcore Deobandi cum militant Sufi unswayed from the siratul mustaqeem.  What’s a guy like that doing flirting with David Hume? This man is a fraud, a charlatan, a closet murtad like no other. Always has been, always will. 

     Now look here Abu, I don’t mind if you plunder my things. As the Redeemer once said, if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. I love you brother fee sabilillah. Pray just let me squeeze you like a bunny.  If I may part your bottom cheeks, I promise you’ll walk funny in the morning beaming a radiant smile.


    in my defence i stole your sig while you were away crying on ateapotists man-titties regarding injustices suffered on this forum  grin12

    and on a side note - it's pretty much common knowledge now that i'm not really a muslim anymore so  Tongue

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: I Want a New Way
     Reply #89 - February 11, 2011, 07:04 PM

    Forget this thread please


    no way. i want this internet drama to continue

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
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