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 Topic: Tariq Ramadan´s prayer

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  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Tariq Ramadan´s prayer
     OP - February 10, 2011, 09:54 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGA94E-FqD4&feature=player_embedded

    TR : "Allah, strike our enemies, Your enemies, the enemies of the religion (Islam)"

    How pious.

    Since I am not a Muslim and have no intention of converting, would I be considered an enemy of the religion I wonder.
    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #1 - February 10, 2011, 10:16 PM
    off course..
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan´s prayer
     Reply #2 - February 10, 2011, 10:22 PM

    Oh dear Tariq.

    Morroco, Tunisia, Algeria?

     Really Tariq?
     


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #3 - February 10, 2011, 10:30 PM
    Funny, all it takes is a few youtubes here and there, and the popular authorities in moderate mainstream Islam (Zakir Naik, Ramadan and to some extent in terms of public face - Hasan Medhi) are revealed to be minds that are hijacked by Islam whereby they are not healthy advocates for the moderate Islam the liberal West would love to promote and sing and clap their hands about. NB: Clapping and singing would probably not be appreciated by these men!
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #4 - February 10, 2011, 10:31 PM
    Thanks btw Paloma, you rock!
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #5 - February 10, 2011, 11:51 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 10, 2011, 10:22 PM
    Oh dear Tariq.

    Morroco, Tunisia, Algeria?

     Really Tariq?
     

    Huh! what a video.. I didn't know that guy was Jackal & hyde  rabbid mullah
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #6 - February 11, 2011, 03:07 AM
    Never thought Ramadan was like that... It's sort of disheartening because you don't see so many prominent moderates who speak rationally and speak loudly at that, so to see this is pretty saddening. Saying one thing to us and another to those he prays with. Will the real Tariq Ramadan please stand up?
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #7 - February 11, 2011, 05:56 AM
    Some people here I think are a little too ready to take Muslims' surface "moderation" at face value. If a person accepts the Koran as the literal word of an eternal god, it is perfectly reasonable to assume, unless CONCLUSIVELY proven otherwise, that they subscribe to Islam's violent global supremacist agenda lock, stock and barrel whatever their outward demeanor.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #8 - February 11, 2011, 10:40 AM
    Quote from: Unechance on February 11, 2011, 03:07 AM
    Never thought Ramadan was like that... It's sort of disheartening because you don't see so many prominent moderates who speak rationally and speak loudly at that, so to see this is pretty saddening. Saying one thing to us and another to those he prays with. Will the real Tariq Ramadan please stand up?


    Did you really think he wasn't like that? He's the whole nine yards. He's versed in the language of the Guardian Left to soften the ground for Ikhwan / Jamaati Islam.

    For your perusal:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brother-Tariq-Doublespeak-Ramadan/dp/1594032157

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #9 - February 11, 2011, 11:00 AM
    Quote from: Unechance on February 11, 2011, 03:07 AM
    Saying one thing to us and another to those he prays with.

    That is his trademark feature. Like billy already mentioned Caroline Fourest wrote a book on him in which she analysed Tariq Ramadan's 15 books, 1,500 pages of interviews, and approximately 100 recordings and concluded that "Tariq Ramadan is slippery. He says one thing to his faithful Muslim followers and something else entirely to his Western audience. His choice of words, the formulations he uses – even his tone of voice – vary, chameleon-like, according to his audience."
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan´s prayer
     Reply #10 - February 11, 2011, 11:01 AM
    Quote from: billy on February 11, 2011, 10:40 AM
    Did you really think he wasn't like that? He's the whole nine yards. He's versed in the language of the Guardian Left to soften the ground for Ikhwan / Jamaati Islam.

    For your perusal:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brother-Tariq-Doublespeak-Ramadan/dp/1594032157



    but this is the first time I heard he doing international Islamic prayer with Chechnya, Palestine, Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan,  Morocco, Tunisia ..

     I wonder whether I would  have heard  from Tariq Ramadan's mouth a  similar prayer of Allah vengeance with London, New york, Denmark, France in it     if there was NO 9/11 and Taliban were in Power  In Afghanistan, Saddam is sitting in Iraq west is sleeping with sheiks and ashing on oil  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #11 - February 11, 2011, 11:09 AM
    Quote from: Unechance on February 11, 2011, 03:07 AM
    Never thought Ramadan was like that... It's sort of disheartening because you don't see so many prominent moderates who speak rationally and speak loudly at that, so to see this is pretty saddening. Saying one thing to us and another to those he prays with. Will the real Tariq Ramadan please stand up?


    He is a snakeoil salesman - Listen to what Tarek Fatah has to say about him in this video :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMviEq5n1U0&feature=related

    @ DH - Tarek Fatah is what I would call a moderate Muslim.
    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #12 - February 11, 2011, 11:59 AM
    Quote from: Kenan on February 11, 2011, 11:00 AM
    That is his trademark feature. Like billy already mentioned Caroline Fourest wrote a book on him in which she analysed Tariq Ramadan's 15 books, 1,500 pages of interviews, and approximately 100 recordings and concluded that "Tariq Ramadan is slippery. He says one thing to his faithful Muslim followers and something else entirely to his Western audience. His choice of words, the formulations he uses – even his tone of voice – vary, chameleon-like, according to his audience."


    What's that book called?
    "Tomorrow is the today you were worried about yesterday" Unknown
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan´s prayer
     Reply #13 - February 11, 2011, 12:01 PM
    Oh ffs in nearly every mosque they say such things! Nothing new here. I'm sat here right now watching the friday sermon from Mecca and the Imam is like "Oh Allah grant victory to Islam and muslims, bring back our izzah (think it means respect/honour/dignity) Oh Allah destroy the enemies of Islam" and such things in a dua are COMMON even my mum prayers for the victory of the "mujahideen"  whistling2
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #14 - February 11, 2011, 12:25 PM

    That simulataneously says much about Islam and its view of the world and of humanity, and does nothing to detract from Ramadan's ideology.

    He's just been careless here. His writings and speeches are where the red meat really is. He is part of the Ikhwan 'long game', liberal secular societies must accomodate themselves to Islam, rather than Islam accomodating themselves to liberal, secular democracies.

    All wrapped up in the packaging and language of western 'multicultural' 'diversity' Leftism and identity politics.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Tariq Ramadan´s prayer
     Reply #15 - February 11, 2011, 02:20 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite
    Oh ffs in nearly every mosque they say such things! Nothing new here....


    Indeed, there is no reason to suppose that such things WOULDN'T be routinely said in the average mosque, since they represent core IslamIC and not just "IslamIST" ideas.

    Quote
    I'm sat here right now watching the friday sermon from Mecca and the Imam is like "Oh Allah grant victory to Islam and muslims, bring back our izzah (think it means respect/honour/dignity) Oh Allah destroy the enemies of Islam" and such things in a dua are COMMON even my mum prayers for the victory of the "mujahideen"  whistling2


    And why WOULDN'T she pray in this manner? She's a Muslim. Thank you for supporting my longstanding contention that the distinction between "Muslim" and "Islamist" is essentially spurious. So-called "Islamist" ideas are ancient and endemic in so-called "mainstream" Islam. In nineteenth century Egypt - long before "Saudi oil money" was supposedly funding so-called "radicalization" - similar imprecations were being routinely ranted from mosque pulpits.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #16 - February 11, 2011, 11:38 PM
    Quote
    Thank you for supporting my longstanding contention that the distinction between "Muslim" and "Islamist" is essentially spurious.



    No you see, most muslims don't even know that a political side exists and if they do they know very little. Is political Islam growing? Yes. Does that mean all muslims are Islamist? No. Not even most.

    As for my mum, well I do come from a family that follow an interpretation of Islam that gave birth to the taliban  whistling2 but don't think my mum is a radical or summat lol. Never forced me to pray or wear hijab and doesn't mind me having a bf  Smiley

    The Saudi oil money has simply 'salafied' the Islamist movements.
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #17 - February 11, 2011, 11:42 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 11, 2011, 12:01 PM
    Oh ffs in nearly every mosque they say such things! Nothing new here. I'm sat here right now watching the friday sermon from Mecca and the Imam is like "Oh Allah grant victory to Islam and muslims, bring back our izzah (think it means respect/honour/dignity) Oh Allah destroy the enemies of Islam" and such things in a dua are COMMON even my mum prayers for the victory of the "mujahideen"  whistling2

    +1

    Of course these kinda prayers are common in every mosque.  I've heard them all my life in the bog standard mosque that I go to... (or seldom go to now).
    .
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #18 - February 11, 2011, 11:57 PM
    Exactly kinda making this thread pointless  Roll Eyes
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #19 - February 12, 2011, 12:10 AM

    When invocations to war and entreaties to destruction and demonising others is so familiar, it inculcates a low threshold for hateful rhetoric and extremism.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #20 - February 12, 2011, 12:20 AM
    Quote
    When invocations to war


     Cheesy

    Half of the places he mentioned already have war!!! And the others have despot dictators that need to be removed by violence if necessary. The only 'controversial' thing he says is about striking the 'enemy'
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #21 - February 12, 2011, 12:25 AM
    Quote from: Paloma on February 11, 2011, 11:09 AM

    @ DH - Tarek Fatah is what I would call a moderate Muslim.

    I'm not sure if he is.  He's on my facebook, and almost all his updates are slagging muslims off in some shape or form.  I wouldnt be surprised if he's in the closet.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #22 - February 12, 2011, 12:33 AM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 12, 2011, 12:20 AM
    Half of the places he mentioned already have war!!! And the others have despot dictators that need to be removed by violence if necessary. The only 'controversial' thing he says is about striking the 'enemy'


    Exactly. A very low threshold and a high tolerance for casual demonisation.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #23 - February 12, 2011, 12:42 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 12, 2011, 12:25 AM
    I'm not sure if he is.  He's on my facebook, and almost all his updates are slagging muslims off in some shape or form.  I wouldnt be surprised if he's in the closet.


    He's very excitable.

    I've read some of his stuff online. I can't work him out. I think he's a believer, he retro-fits his deeply held beliefs onto Islam and Mohammad, to make it a kind of egalitarian, feminist, modern progressive faith, with Mo a kind of Arab Buddha. But he doesn't do it in a way that suggests any kind of prosletysing agenda as some Muslims do. There isn't any kind of dawah edge to it, and because of the forthright and restless energy he has to address aspects of Islam and Islamism as practised and preached, it doesn't ever come across as the sort of denial-ism with the head in the sand that you so often see amongst liberal non literalist Muslims.

    As usual, you are torn between wishing him well, and considering him delusional, and wondering whether he's not just paying lip service to it all to keep some 'credibility' amongst Muslims. He batters Ramadan with the stick of not being true to Mohammad's teachings on pluralism etc in that video, a comforting rhetorical weapon to have I guess.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Tariq Ramadan´s prayer
     Reply #24 - February 12, 2011, 08:53 AM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 11, 2011, 12:01 PM
    Oh ffs in nearly every mosque they say such things! Nothing new here. I'm sat here right now watching the friday sermon from Mecca and the Imam is like "Oh Allah grant victory to Islam and muslims, bring back our izzah (think it means respect/honour/dignity) Oh Allah destroy the enemies of Islam" and such things in a dua are COMMON even my mum prayers for the victory of the "mujahideen"  whistling2

    The fact that such things are common says a lot about pathology of mainstream Islam.

    But I am not sure if you realize that Tariq Ramadan is hailed as Martin Luther King of Islam, a great reformer (who btw cannot even summon enough moral fibre to condemn stoning and such), a brilliant Islamic intellectual etc.
    In this sermon among other things he specifically mentions the conflict in Sudan between the predominantly Arab/Muslim North and the non-Arab/Muslim "African" South.
    From Wiki:

    Dr Deng (Sudanese known journalist) explains that Northerners' identification with Arabism, "is the result of a process in which races and religions were ranked, with Arabs respected as free, superior and a race of slave masters, while Negroes and heathens were viewed as legitimate targets of slavery, if they were not in fact already slaves."

    Many of the racist attitudes traditionally directed toward slaves have been redirected to the sedentary Arab [26] racist ideology plays an important part of the genocide, the sharp distinctions between Arabs and Africans in the racially mixed Darfur region.

    Blacks in Sudan are seen as inferior to the Arabs,the racism, racial sentiments against non-Arabs have been used & manipulated by the central government.

    This genocide has been described as an example of Arab racism at its worst.

    The Arab Gathering, a shadowy Nazi type brotherhood deeply embedded in the Bashir regime, preaches a doctrine of Arab supremacy and a Sudan "cleansed" of non-Arabs.

    Therefore Tariq Ramadan in this sermon explicitly offers his moral support to genocide that is/was happening in Sudan which is a nice example of tribalistic mentality that personalises the suffering of Palestinians (or Muslims in general) but is on the other hand completely oblivious to the suffering of non-Muslims especially when the perpetrators of a crime are Muslims.
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #25 - February 12, 2011, 12:36 PM
    Quote
    But I am not sure if you realize that Tariq Ramadan is hailed as Martin Luther King of Islam, a great reformer (who btw cannot even summon enough moral fibre to condemn stoning and such), a brilliant Islamic intellectual etc.
    In this sermon among other things he specifically mentions the conflict in Sudan between the predominantly Arab/Muslim North and the non-Arab/Muslim "African" South.


    Yeah I don't really know much about him, watched his program "Islam & Life" on Press TV a few times, he seemed to me to be the typical apologist. "Islam had nothing to do with 9/11" and other rubbish. Hahahaha yeah he seems to be backing a racist genocide in Sudan whilst complaining about racist bigotry in Europe  Cheesy
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan´s prayer
     Reply #26 - February 12, 2011, 02:03 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 12, 2011, 12:36 PM
    Yeah I don't really know much about him, watched his program "Islam & Life" on Press TV a few times, he seemed to me to be the typical apologist. "Islam had nothing to do with 9/11" and other rubbish. Hahahaha yeah he seems to be backing a racist genocide in Sudan whilst complaining about racist bigotry in Europe  Cheesy


    clap clap that's more like it! When you are good you can be very,very good!  Afro


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #27 - February 12, 2011, 02:19 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on February 12, 2011, 08:53 AM
    Therefore Tariq Ramadan in this sermon specifically offers his moral support to genocide that is/was happening in Sudan which is a nice example of tribalistic mentality that personalises the suffering of Palestinians (or Muslims in general) but is on the other hand completely oblivious to the suffering of non-Muslims especially when the perpetrators of a crime are Muslims.


    Good work Kenan.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #28 - February 12, 2011, 04:46 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 12, 2011, 12:42 AM
    He's very excitable.

    I've read some of his stuff online. I can't work him out. I think he's a believer, he retro-fits his deeply held beliefs onto Islam and Mohammad, to make it a kind of egalitarian, feminist, modern progressive faith, with Mo a kind of Arab Buddha. But he doesn't do it in a way that suggests any kind of prosletysing agenda as some Muslims do. There isn't any kind of dawah edge to it, and because of the forthright and restless energy he has to address aspects of Islam and Islamism as practised and preached, it doesn't ever come across as the sort of denial-ism with the head in the sand that you so often see amongst liberal non literalist Muslims.

    As usual, you are torn between wishing him well, and considering him delusional, and wondering whether he's not just paying lip service to it all to keep some 'credibility' amongst Muslims. He batters Ramadan with the stick of not being true to Mohammad's teachings on pluralism etc in that video, a comforting rhetorical weapon to have I guess.

    I think that Tarek Fatah believes in Islam which has never existed. His Prophet Muhammad NEVER existed either. He can be very strident but we should listen to him. What is confusing about him is that he misquotes from the Quran, his interpretation of the Book is benign.
    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
     Reply #29 - February 15, 2011, 02:40 PM
    Quote from: Shahid Raza
    Of course these kinda prayers are common in every mosque.  I've heard them all my life in the bog standard mosque that I go to... (or seldom go to now).


    And, yet again, there is no reason why such doctrines would NOT be regularly expounded in the average mosque any more than the doctrine of the virgin birth, crucifixion and resurrection of "Christ" would not be regularly parrotted in the average church. These are CORE ISLAMIC TEACHINGS straight from its core texts. Even if they weren't, it is what has been routinely ranted from mosque pultpits just about everywhere in the "Islamic World" from the time of Muhammad onward and has the momentum of centuries of custom behind it. Why would mosque preachers in parts of the world that until recently did not contain mosques suddenly depart from an age-old script and start teaching that "Kafirs" are loved by Allah and deserve to be respected by Muslims as equals?
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
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