Sufism: A Documentary On

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- Zebedee
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Sufism: A Documentary On
OP - February 25, 2011, 04:00 PM

Yup.

An interesting documentary on Tasawwuf, or Sufism to you and me. Not entirely sure I agree with the idea that because someone's a Sufi then they're necessarily pluralistic and reject all the batty Islamic law stuff, but I suppose they are a breath of fresh air from the philistine religionists who hate anything that isn't an inextricable part of Islam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybWpqlxJI_M
- abzm94
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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #1 - February 25, 2011, 04:40 PM

Loved Sufism when I was a Muslim... And still I find it very interesting, in a secular manner.

Human spirituality is very intriguing... In the past, where urbanisation and globalisation wasn't there; there would be beautiful natural landscapes, almost to the point where we found such tranquillity with nature.

It's rare to have such spirituality today, for we all live in a modernist society....
- nj7
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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #2 - February 27, 2011, 11:25 AM

Very interesting, thanks. It's a shame they are seen so negatively by some other muslims. I don't know how salafis get so worked up about music for one thing! I met lots of sufis recently and they were incredibly nice.

http://quranspotlight.wordpress.com/
- olweasel
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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #3 - February 27, 2011, 02:37 PM

Turkish sufi music sounds enchanting!

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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #4 - March 04, 2011, 07:30 AM

Like a few other (now absent) members of the board, I was affiliated with some sufi tariqahs (brotherhoods). "More spiritual," perhaps but in the end just as obsessed with shariah nitpicking - if not more so. Even worse was the cultishness of it all. Maybe it is the isolation of many tariqahs from the mainstream - being rejected and thus drawing closer together and becoming more secretive, but what I personally saw for years was a lot of abuse of mureeds / dervishes and then also a lot of abuse of the women. The only silver lining is that a lot of people have been prompted to re-examine their religion as a result of this and left Islam.

There have been some blogs and articles about sufi cults the past few years, if you can find them. A lot of them were taken down after the owners were harassed and threatened by these spiritual, subha wearing people.

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- The tailor
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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #5 - March 04, 2011, 11:10 AM

@Manat: Nuh Ha Mim Keller's lot?

The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

https://vimeo.com/110528857
- The tailor
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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #6 - March 04, 2011, 11:16 AM

I call myself and what I represent "Sufism" but I've never formally belonged to the kind of tariqa you are talking about: which is, as you say, just another cult (like Islam) with a set of rituals and constraints designed to provide an emotional response in the guise of spiritual feeling but really are nothing more than a form of mind control. And mind control is bad even if the mind controller is convinced their intentions are pure.

I don't believe in devotion to a guru or teacher -- and believe making baya to anyone (no matter how charming) is inevitably going to lead to heartbreak. I guess it's kind of obvious: but the cultish technologies are seductive. Buyer beware!

There are "teachers" in my Sufism -- but they never take the form of a guy who sits at the top of some organization demanding people bow to him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMA8uQfCQWM

The Tailor

The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

https://vimeo.com/110528857
- yeezevee
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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #7 - March 04, 2011, 11:34 AM

I tell you guys one things here., these artistic characters would have been singing, dancing, painting with Islam or without Islam., So No credit goes to Islam for Sufi men & women singing, dancing, painting, panting and ranting . There was plenty of it around the world and in Mecca before Muhammad's birth and before Islam. In fact Quran in Arabic is a poetic manual specially the verses that allegedly came out before Muhammad moved in to Madina

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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #8 - March 04, 2011, 02:20 PM

Quote from: The tailor on March 04, 2011, 11:10 AM
@Manat: Nuh Ha Mim Keller's lot?

Them and others. I think Noah Keller's group's scandals are just the most widely talked / gossiped about (b/c more of his former dervishes took to the internet to expose it).

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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #9 - March 04, 2011, 03:13 PM

Quote from: Manat on March 04, 2011, 02:20 PM
Them and others. I think Noah Keller's group's scandals are just the most widely talked / gossiped about (b/c more of his former dervishes took to the internet to expose it).

Out of curiosity, what went on with him and his peeps?
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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #10 - March 04, 2011, 03:25 PM

Quote
I was affiliated with some sufi tariqahs (brotherhoods). "More spiritual," perhaps but in the end just as obsessed with shariah nitpicking - if not more so.

Indeed.

As I said in the OP, it's simply naive to think that Sufism somehow offers a complete deviation from the mainstream Shari'ah. Sufis just appreciate a more numinous aspect of the religion, they don't necessarily reject Islamic law at all. In fact, most Sufis probably are just orthodox Muslims with who also happen to practice Sufism.

I'm pretty sure Hasan al-Banna's Muslim Brotherhood took quite a favourable opinion on Sufism, and they may well still do. The traditionalists on the Indian subcontinent like Taqi Usmani, Shabbir Ahmad Usmani, while being staunch proponents of Islamic orthodoxy, are and were practitioners of Sufism. Indeed, I even recall reading something in Ma'ariful Qur'an about how Sufi tariqas are primarily to give an individual a greater understanding and practice of the Shariah. Even Western converts like Aisha Bewley, Gai Eaton, Abdulqadir al-Sufi, et al., devotes of Sufism, still retain(ed) faith in the notion of the political component of Islam and its other more traditional elements.
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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #11 - March 04, 2011, 04:22 PM

Quote from: The tailor on March 04, 2011, 11:16 AM
I call myself and what I represent "Sufism" but I've never formally belonged to the kind of tariqa you are talking about: which is, as you say, just another cult (like Islam) with a set of rituals and constraints designed to provide an emotional response in the guise of spiritual feeling but really are nothing more than a form of mind control.

A few years ago when I was reading Zia Sardar extensively he mentioned in "Desperately Seeking Paradise" how his brother got drawn into and was brainwashed by a London based tariqa led by a sociopathic narcissist who basically turned it into a personal cult.

Quote from: The tailor on March 04, 2011, 11:16 AM
There are "teachers" in my Sufism -- but they never take the form of a guy who sits at the top of some organization demanding people bow to him.

But rather in form of those who have an insight into and a lot of worth to say about the Truth?

Quote from: The tailor on March 04, 2011, 11:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMA8uQfCQWM

What's the purpose/meaning of these two dances?
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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #12 - March 04, 2011, 04:30 PM

When I was a Muslim, I heard and believed dancing was not permissible in true sufism? Most of the tariqahs, ways of sufism, were specific in developing the mind and heart initially.

Interesting, but way too complicated for nowadays.
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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #13 - March 08, 2011, 10:03 PM

@Kenan: many teachers are what might be called imaginal or astral -- or just aspects of my "self". This is usually what is meant by finding a "teacher". Of course I have real teachers that satisfy a silsila of illumination: and I'd include folk like Lacan there (who got his Hegel from Kodjiev, who did his PhD on Soloviev, who met Sheikhina in London and Egypt) or Deleuze (who read Spinoza who provided a unique Gentile-friendly version of Kabbalah). Some of the best Sufi teachers phrase their mysticism as atheists.

Idris Shah almost never mentions God, but the Truth comes across.

The meaning of the dances? That's Gurjieev stuff. They represent the "multiplicity" of the self -- the different components of psychology and how they are aligned through a kind of cosmic dance. Hindu religious dances work very strongly around this. But if there is any value in dervish whirling, it's a similar principle

The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

https://vimeo.com/110528857
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Re: Sufism: A Documentary On
Reply #14 - April 29, 2011, 04:29 AM

Quote from: Zebedee on March 04, 2011, 03:13 PM
Out of curiosity, what went on with him and his peeps?

Zeb, a number of things happened. I don't remember all the dirty details now, but I was told recently that it is still going on. Many people, especially long time mureeds, have quit the tariqah and are leaving him. A lot of stuff with money, condoning the abuse of women, the abuse of a girl that happened at the hands of one of his teachers, the usual political games played with favorites, cultivating people for certain positions. A lot of class and racial stuff from what I remember. It wasn't just him, it's just that he had the largest # of mureeds and I guess they were angrier than the others and took to the internet over it. I just recently saw a blog that was a repost of a blog a mureed had but she took down after getting threats.

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