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Theme Changer

 Topic: Evidence of Alien Life

 (Read 2878 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Evidence of Alien Life
     OP - March 05, 2011, 01:38 PM

    Hey fellas it's been a while. But I do not come empty handed.  dance

    Quote
    We are not alone in the universe -- and alien life forms may have a lot more in common with life on Earth than we had previously thought.

    That's the stunning conclusion one NASA scientist has come to, releasing his groundbreaking revelations in a new study in the March edition of the Journal of Cosmology.

    Dr. Richard B. Hoover, an astrobiologist with NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center, gave FoxNews.com early access to the out-of-this-world research, published late Friday evening in the March edition of the Journal of Cosmology. In it, Hoover describes the latest findings in his study of an extremely rare class of meteorites, called CI1 carbonaceous chondrites -- only nine such meteorites are known to exist on Earth.

    Though it may be hard to swallow, Hoover has become convinced that his findings reveal fossil evidence of bacterial life within such meteorites -- and by extension, suggest we are not alone in the universe.


    http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/03/05/exclusive-nasa-scientists-claims-evidence-alien-life-meteorite/

    I'm open for debate (of why we should re-/embrace Islam), but I will no longer participate in this forum. Message me if you need anything. Good luck and may you all find your way... again...
  • Re: Evidence of Alien Life
     Reply #1 - March 05, 2011, 03:50 PM

    http://journalofcosmology.com/Life100.html

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Evidence of Alien Life
     Reply #2 - March 05, 2011, 04:22 PM

    Wow! Good one Rationalizer... So maybe the first living organisms on Earth came from space hm...
    Oh no! We're all aliens!!  mysmilie_977

    I'm open for debate (of why we should re-/embrace Islam), but I will no longer participate in this forum. Message me if you need anything. Good luck and may you all find your way... again...
  • Re: Evidence of Alien Life
     Reply #3 - March 05, 2011, 04:23 PM

    My understanding of this was essentially this...

    Somewhere like Europa could have life.  The life gets shot out into space by some form of eruption along with water.  The life is frozen in the water as it turns to ice.  The ice gets collected together by gravity and sticks to some near by rock. More rock is added by more impacts causing ice and frozen bacteria to get trapped within the rock.  At some point the rock could be impacted by another rock which sends it off into space to become a comet.  The comet enters a solar system.  The heat of the sun warms comet.  The water vaporises at a rate faster than it can escape, causing an explosion on the comet.  Lumps of rock is ejected along with the ice and bacteria trapped within it.  Some falls to Earth.  A meteorite possibly hits the side of a mountain or some other hard surface, smashes open, releasing the bacteria.  The bacteria thaws out and off it goes.

    What did I get wrong?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Evidence of Alien Life
     Reply #4 - March 05, 2011, 04:24 PM

    Wow! Good one Rationalizer... So maybe the first living organisms on Earth came from space hm...
    Oh no! We're all aliens!!  mysmilie_977


    Don't congratulate me, I just followed a few links from your article.  As interesting as the story is, I didn't like the idea of reading something on foxnews.com Smiley

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Evidence of Alien Life
     Reply #5 - March 05, 2011, 04:25 PM

    Really? Why what's wrong with foxnews?  Huh?

    I'm open for debate (of why we should re-/embrace Islam), but I will no longer participate in this forum. Message me if you need anything. Good luck and may you all find your way... again...
  • Re: Evidence of Alien Life
     Reply #6 - March 05, 2011, 05:54 PM

    its sensationalist & biased, like tabloid newspapers here in the UK

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  • Re: Evidence of Alien Life
     Reply #7 - March 05, 2011, 10:09 PM

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/03/05/has-life-been-found-in-a-meteorite/

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Evidence of Alien Life
     Reply #8 - March 05, 2011, 10:10 PM

    Really? Why what's wrong with foxnews?  Huh?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SiVasR2Gzo&playnext=1&list=PLA3BD2524FE99BD4D

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Evidence of Alien Life
     Reply #9 - March 06, 2011, 12:31 AM

     
    Really? Why what's wrong with foxnews?  Huh?

    Most popular media outlets butcher the actual science of the story and bloat it way out of proportion, and if it's Fox, you should be more weary.

    I didn't know about this journal, so I looked around. It isn't really a well known journal, and from what I've seen, it's not a very good one, some of the articles are almost pseudoscientific. At one point this journal had a science fiction writer on the editorial staff.  Grin The journal now seems to have a fascination with panspermia, which is quite evident on the home page.

    As for the actual story, I am quite sceptical about it. There is no credible way to rule out local contamination. As Phil noted in his post it will be interesting to see the reviews. The idea of finding bacteria on meteorites isn't new, we've found lots of other interesting stuff on meteorites like amino acids which are the building blocks of life. But it's far from life.
  • Re: Evidence of Alien Life
     Reply #10 - March 08, 2011, 04:27 AM

    Here's NASA's official statement about this issue.

    Quote
    NASA is a scientific and technical agency committed to a culture of openness with the media and public. While we value the free exchange of ideas, data, and information as part of scientific and technical inquiry, NASA cannot stand behind or support a scientific claim unless it has been peer-reviewed or thoroughly examined by other qualified experts. This paper was submitted in 2007 to the International Journal of Astrobiology. However, the peer review process was not completed for that submission. NASA also was unaware of the recent submission of the paper to the Journal of Cosmology or of the paper's subsequent publication. Additional questions should be directed to the author of the paper. - Dr. Paul Hertz, chief scientist of NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington


    They’re backing off, they never supported this paper, they didn’t even know it was submitted to the Journal of Cosmology. Further more, this paper was submitted in 2007 to the International Journal of Astrobiology. However, the statement “the peer review process was not completed for that submission."Is not true, The paper was rejected, after peer review. Rocco Mancinelli, Ph.D, Editor, International Journal of Astrobiology.

    The guy who wrote this paper isn’t even a Ph.D, but he’s referred to as “Dr.” in the Journal of Cosmology.

    Their argument is more friable than the meteorites they examined. I find it very annoying how it’s being perpetuated, this isn’t evidence for alien life on a meteorite. Their argument has been rejected before, now they’re just using silly tactics to gain popularity. This isn’t how science is done.

    I think it’s quite sad, because meteorites are really, really interesting.
  • Re: Evidence of Alien Life
     Reply #11 - March 08, 2011, 08:06 AM

    How sad... and I almost rejoiced at the possibility of an alien going: We come in peace!

    I'm open for debate (of why we should re-/embrace Islam), but I will no longer participate in this forum. Message me if you need anything. Good luck and may you all find your way... again...
  • Re: Evidence of Alien Life
     Reply #12 - March 08, 2011, 10:15 AM

    From PZ Meyer's blog:

    Did scientists discover bacteria in meteorites?

    No.

    No, no, no. No no no no no no no no.

    No, no.

    No.

    Fox News broke the story, which ought to make one immediately suspicious — it's not an organization noted for scientific acumen. But even worse, the paper claiming the discovery of bacteria fossils in carbonaceous chondrites was published in … the Journal of Cosmology. I've mentioned Cosmology before — it isn't a real science journal at all, but is the ginned-up website of a small group of crank academics obsessed with the idea of Hoyle and Wickramasinghe that life originated in outer space and simply rained down on Earth. It doesn't exist in print, consists entirely of a crude and ugly website that looks like it was sucked through a wormhole from the 1990s, and publishes lots of empty noise with no substantial editorial restraint. For a while, it seemed to be entirely the domain of a crackpot named Rhawn Joseph who called himself the emeritus professor of something mysteriously called the Brain Research Laboratory, based in the general neighborhood of Northern California (seriously, that was the address: "Northern California"), and self-published all of his pseudo-scientific "publications" on this web site.


    It is not an auspicious beginning. Finding credible evidence of extraterrestrial microbes is the kind of thing you'd expect to see published in Science or Nature, but the fact that it found a home on a fringe website that pretends to be a legitimate science journal ought to set off alarms right there.

    But could it be that by some clumsy accident of the author, a fabulously insightful, meticulously researched paper could have fallen into the hands of single-minded lunatics who rushed it into 'print'? Sure. And David Icke might someday publish the working plans for a perpetual motion machine in his lizardoid-infested newsletter. We've actually got to look at the claims and not dismiss them because of their location.

    So let's look at the paper, Fossils of Cyanobacteria in CI1 Carbonaceous Meteorites: Implications to Life on Comets, Europa, and Enceladus. I think that link will work; I'm not certain, because the "Journal of Cosmology" seems to randomly redirect links to its site to whatever article the editors think is hot right now, and while the article title is given a link on the page, it's to an Amazon page that's flogging a $94 book by the author. Who needs a DOI when you've got a book to sell?

    Reading the text, my impression is one of excessive padding. It's a dump of miscellaneous facts about carbonaceous chondrites, not well-honed arguments edited to promote concision or cogency. The figures are annoying; when you skim through them, several will jump out at you as very provocative and looking an awful lot like real bacteria, but then without exception they all turn out to be photos of terrestrial organisms thrown in for reference. The extraterrestrial 'bacteria' all look like random mineral squiggles and bumps on a field full of random squiggles and bumps, and apparently, the authors thought some particular squiggle looked sort of like some photo of a bug. This isn't science, it's pareidolia. They might as well be analyzing Martian satellite photos for pictures that sorta kinda look like artifacts.

    The data consists almost entirely of SEM photos of odd globules and filaments on the complex surfaces of crumbled up meteorites, with interspersed SEMs of miscellaneous real bacteria taken from various sources — they seem to be proud of having analyzed flakes of mummy skin and hair from frozen mammoths, but I couldn't see the point at all — do they have cause to think the substrate of a chondrite might have some correspondence to a Siberian Pleistocene mammoth guard hair? I'd be more impressed if they'd surveyed the population of weird little lumps in their rocks and found the kind of consistent morphology in a subset that you'd find in a population of bacteria. Instead, it's a wild collection of one-offs.

    There is one other kind of datum in the article: they also analyzed the mineral content of the 'bacteria', and report detailed breakdowns of the constitution of the blobs: there's lots of carbon, magnesium, silicon, and sulfur in there, and virtually no nitrogen. The profiles don't look anything like what you'd expect from organic life on Earth, but then, these are supposedly fossilized specimens from chondrites that congealed out of the gases of the solar nebula billions of years ago. Why would you expect any kind of correspondence?

    The extraterrestrial 'bacteria' photos are a pain to browse through, as well, because they are published at a range of different magnifications, and even when they are directly comparing an SEM of one to an SEM of a real bacterium, they can't be bothered to put them at the same scale. Peering at them and mentally tweaking the size, though, one surprising result is that all of their boojums are relatively huge — these would be big critters, more similar in size to eukaryotic cells than E. coli. And all of them preserved so well, not crushed into a smear of carbon, not ruptured and evaporated away, all just sitting there, posing, like a few billion years in a vacuum was a day in the park. Who knew that milling about in a comet for the lifetime of a solar system was such a great preservative?

    I'm looking forward to the publication next year of the discovery of an extraterrestrial rabbit in a meteor. While they're at it, they might as well throw in a bigfoot print on the surface and chupacabra coprolite from space. All will be about as convincing as this story.

    While they're at it, maybe they should try publishing it in a journal with some reputation for rigorous peer review and expectation that the data will meet certain minimal standards of evidence and professionalism.

    Otherwise, this work is garbage. I'm surprised anyone is granting it any credibility at all.

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